Anyone ever travel I26 through the smokeys?
It starts in the north at Johnson City, Tn. Goes down through Ashville, NC. And seems to end at Spartenberg, SC.
For a slow bus with no jake-brakes is this a tough ride?
It goes all the way to Charleston.
It is a beautiful ride, there are a few long 6% north of Asheville and another north of Spartanburg. I have jakes, can be done without jake. Start very slow in low gear at the top.There are extra lanes. Take you're time and enjoy the pretty ride.
Search for topics on hill descent methods on here.
Also pay attention in Asheville, the ramps can be kinda confusing and you come up on them quick. Also a pretty sharp curve on one of them.
Enjoy the ride.
seems to me (with very limited experience) that my engine will hold reasonably well on a 6% grade. By the time we get to 7% I'm on my brakes more than I like.
Does that seem like typical experience?
Quote from: Tikvah on January 27, 2015, 06:33:01 AM
seems to me (with very limited experience) that my engine will hold reasonably well on a 6% grade. By the time we get to 7% I'm on my brakes more than I like.
Does that seem like typical experience?
Dave,
You should do fine. I assume you have figured this out already, but when you are going down a hill, go slow. Speed is not your friend in getting down a hill. If you are on a 6-7% grade, without jakes, you probably don't want to be going more then 20-25mph. Gear down, and go slow.
We learned that lesson the the Grapevine, going north, on I-5. It feels like it takes forever on long grades, but slower is better.
I will say we (I) have driven almost every interstate out east. I don't remember many if any grades, that I had concerns on in the smokeys. Could be because we had already been out west, and knew to keep it slow. Then when we got jakes, it was a lot more fun to take the hills.
Hey Clifford. Did you see how we raised the floor around the jakes to get them to fit? Pretty slick, huh?
Have fun,
John
The old saying about going down a hill as fast as you go up the hill isn't bad advice.
The hill south of Asheville if I recall has a lower speed limit for trucks, and although most ignore it, there is a place at the top to stop, then you can start down which is easier to maintain a speed by trying to slow down to the speed.
But don't worry about your brakes. That is what they are for. I assume you do a DOT brake check so you are assured they are OK for the hills. When you begin to build speed, use your brakes. Don't pump them, but give them a steady application for short durations to get below your target speed. Pumping them exhausts air pressure, and a light application that you hold saves air pressure but it heats up the brakes so use them as needed, but keep air pressure and hot brakes in the back of your mind.
I-26 has a lot of ups and downs, but it is a nice drive if you don't mind dealing with the hills.
I certainly feel better on Interstates than two lane roads in the hills.
I got into some steep hills once on a "State Road" that was only two lane (one lane each way). When somebody stops, in your lane, to make a left, there is suddenly reason for panic.
I always go slow and leave lots of space, but 38,000 lbs going from 40 to 0 is not easy when going down 6 - 7% grade.
Jon,
Dave has drum brakes on his bus. Even with proper maintenance, they are VERY easy to let the smoke out of. We always wanted disc brakes on our bus. That would have been awesome.
With standard drum brakes, it is tough to stop on a 6% grade. That's why slow is the key. I agree with you, Dave. I like interstates. I will go out of my way to stay on interstates, if needed.
I did it without jakes towing a small car. Mind you, I "thought" I had jakes, they just didn't actually work and I hadn't figured that out yet. Spent a heck of a lot of time at 25 mph in second gear both up and down... Very pretty, lots of time to look around, make a sandwich...
Brian
Quote from: Jon on January 27, 2015, 07:03:03 AMThe old saying about going down a hill as fast as you go up the hill isn't bad advice.
Yes, and "start slow" is good advice, too.
Quote from: Jon on January 27, 2015, 07:03:03 AMThe hill south of Asheville if I recall has a lower speed limit for trucks, and although most ignore it, there is a place at the top to stop, then you can start down which is easier to maintain a speed by trying to slow down to the speed. I-26 has a lot of ups and downs, but it is a nice drive if you don't mind dealing with the hills.
The hill south of Asheville on I-26 is called "Saluda Grade". It drops a long way, but it is cut through the Green River valley so it has a long horizontal component (i.e. it is not very "steep" for a long way at the time in most places so it's not as bad as some)*. The "Old Fort Grade" on I-40 drops a lesser amount in altitude but there is very little change from a steady, fairly consistent downwards grade; I'd *much* rather go up or go down Saluda than Old Fort but that's not to say that Saluda should be trifled with. As Jon says, the run down I-26 (and that stretch from Johnson City down to the valley north of Asheville is also considerable -- it's also broken into sharp, short descents followed by shallower descents or even slight uphill phases -- and although it's *easier* than some, care should be taken) across Asheville, Hendersonville NC, down Saluda and into the pretty hills of northwestern SC down to the SC coast is a pretty one.
(* I-26 runs near and mostly parallel to the old railroad grade which did NOT use the open areas and plateaus of the river valley to break the climb or descent up. That old "Saluda Grade" for the railway was one of the most infamous -- and dangerous -- railroad grades in the East in its time. But I-26 has been made easier.)
Quote from: John316 on January 27, 2015, 07:19:53 AM
Jon,
Dave has drum brakes on his bus. Even with proper maintenance, they are VERY easy to let the smoke out of. We always wanted disc brakes on our bus. That would have been awesome.
With standard drum brakes, it is tough to stop on a 6% grade. That's why slow is the key. I agree with you, Dave. I like interstates. I will go out of my way to stay on interstates, if needed.
John,
I have been on almost every interstate in the country, and my previous coach as well as my first coach had drum brakes. I have been on I-26 a lot because I live in Knoxville. My last coach weighed 46,000 and we have always towed our 6700 pound Hummer so I know a little about managing energy going down a hill.
I still maintain that the brakes are not only fine for the job, but on a 6% grade from 55 MPH you can stop a coach. But for normal descents as I stated above don't pump the brakes and give up air pressure. And keep your target speed in mind, and when you reach it apply firm braking until you are about 10 MPH below target, release the brakes to allow them to cool and be ready for the next brake application when needed. The key is the target speed and letting that speed be the max speed for the gear you are in.
If I choose 55 as a target, I need to be in 4th because its top speed is 55. That way I am getting the maximum benefit from my selected gear and I am not abusing my brakes.
And do not ever be intimidated by other drivers. Screw them. If you let them push you then you have only your brakes to separate you from a very nasty crash. Choose your speed and let everyone else go around you if they do not like it.
Actually the mountain with the 35 mph truck lane is on I40 (Old Fort mountain) .I-26 has the Saluda grade,and I can tell you ,this road is rife with idiots.Mostly interstate jocks. I have seen these out law truck drivers come off this mountain full tilt.They do the old truck driving thing with the trailer brakes ,ie,crack the trailer brake valve just enough to hold the speed down a bit and let'r rip.I have seen them coming down that mountain with the trailer brakes smoking so bad you couldn't see the back of the trailer doing 70 mph.God help the poor guy that has a malfunction in front of one of those things !!As our other friend said ,gear that thing down and go slow .Don't worry about whom you might be holding up.If you do this ,you won have a problem without a Jake.After all ,trucks ,mountains and buses were around long before there were Jake Brakes.
Every bus is a little different and there is a lot of good advice posted already but here is what I do on the Saluda grade. I have been up and down this road hundreds of times in about every kind of vehicle but what I do in my bus 8V 71 with a 4 speed. I have tried gearing down and taking it slowly (35-45)but what you run to is that trucks will come up behind you and cannot slow down to the speed you are going and if the passing lane is not clear both of you are in trouble. I slow dow at the top before I start the decent to about 40 in 4th gear and allow a good size gap to develop in front of me. As I begin my decent I allow my speed to build as little as I can without overheating my brakes. The grade is not real long and by the time I am at the bottom I am going about 65-70. There is quite often a radar cop at the bottom of the hill.
The Old Fort hill on I-40 is a whole different story. At the top is a traffic light that will stop you before you start down. At this point I start moving and keep it in 2nd gear or even first and crawl down the hill. The difference is that everyone starts out from a dead stop and there is not a long up hill to slow down at the bottom. They do have some sand pit run aways.
We have driven about 400,000 miles over the last 25 years in our conversions, all Prevost. I cannot think of a US interstate we have not been on. We have gone up and down grades with dire warnings at the top, with runaway truck sand run-offs, with grades with substantially lower truck speeds. The bottom line is anytime we have observed the speed limit for trucks there is usually some jerk that is going to pass us with his jake shaking and rattling our windows.
Way back when it was easy to be intimidated by those who ignore the risk. Maybe it is my age, maybe it is my lousy attitude, maybe I just don't care, but today I gear down and slow down and take my time on the downhill with zero concern about who behind me is inconvenienced. If a truck wants to pass I let them, If they cannot I guess I will just have to absorb the hit. I would far rather get hit in the rear where I have a toad and 45 feet of bus for protection to absorb the shock, than to drive into something with 2 feet of dashboard to absorb the energy.
Very well stated Jon, I agree with all of it. (Except the old and cranky part, I prefer to compare myself to a recycled teenager or something like that)
One thing I am doing is "taking my share of road construction out of the middle" and not allowing them (mostly trucks) to bull me around and squeeze me uncomfortably close to the concrete barriers. In all honesty I can report "it has not made me a lot of friends." But then again, ask me if I care?
I take a lot of pride in my ride, and I am not going to scratch it up (wreck it) because some truck-monkey is in a hurry to get to L.A.
Enjoyed your comment.
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Ditto
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I suspect all of us were a little intimidated by our coaches when we first started driving them and we allowed others to perhaps make us feel guilty if we were in their way. Down hills, or as Okie says through construction zones or anywhere someone acted like we were an impediment to progress.
But time and old(er) age have a way of allowing us to drive as we choose with less concern about what some truck driver thinks.
We learned a long time ago some truckers don't like us, and a few will go out of their way to express how they feel, either on a CB or through their actions. It is no mistake when a truck passes and then brings his rig back into my lane with a few feet to spare. It is clear when some jerk with a big CB announces for all to hear how he wants motor homes off his highway. So my advice to folks who are relatively new owners and driver's of coaches to ignore the rest of the world and drive safe. They will eventually pass and get over it.
I do know on a couple of occasions each year a trucker will pull some bone headed stunt either because he is stupid or inattentive. I rarely touch the mike on my CB, but when I get incensed I usually express myself fairly clearly about how stupid that stunt was and then I let them know I have a dash cam with their activity fully recorded. It is not uncommon for the same truck and I to pass one another during a day, and it is amazing how that trucker is seemingly on his best behavior following my CB announcement.
For that reason I suggest strongly that to supplement your safe driving you get a dash cam because it does document the situation. If you drive like a jerk however, you might not want one.
Before Jakes the old rule of thumb was "What you go up and over in, that is what you use on the way down" but that did not always insure you would not get into trouble. As for me, I usually tried to go down in one less (lower range) and used short bursts on the brakes, I did not fan them.
Never had trouble on the Grapevine, but I did heat up on Tehachapi one night, faded out and the last three miles down were eventful to say the least.
Now days, with an Old Fart onboard. It is don't worry ... don't hurry ... and don't forget to stop and smell the flowers. Iggles are not known for their great breaking systems generally speaking.
I am a two-lane fan myself, a fiend for the Open Highway. I would like to jump on U.S. #2 in Minnesota and drive that sucker all the way to Seattle.
Honey, where is that pamphlet on Reverse Mortgages?
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Wrong direction! I want to do US 2 from Seattle to Maine... I know it doesn't go all the way but I will fake it. Then A1A to Key West for the winter.
Not to nit pick but 2 starts in Everett. ;D
Quote from: Lee Bradley on January 29, 2015, 03:19:03 PM
Wrong direction! I want to do US 2 from Seattle to Maine... I know it doesn't go all the way but I will fake it. Then A1A to Key West for the winter.
Ought to be okay until Hurricane Season Lee, and then I am outta there.
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Quote from: Ed Hackenbruch on January 29, 2015, 04:35:33 PM
Not to nit pick but 2 starts in Everett. ;D
There is one in Canada also, Michigan and Duluth, Minn. That is where I wanted to jump on, Greyhound Museum, Hibbing Iron Ore mines and then point it towards Seattle. The wife's sister lives in the northern part of Seattle, I have run parts of it in Montana.
Nice little road.
Thanks for your comment.
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Seems someone should point out that I-26 is not even close to the Smokies. Beautiful on both sides of the state line, but it's Blue Ridge and, to a degree, Black Mountain beauty. The Smokies are farther west. You can see the Smokies from 1-40 after you're well into Tennessee, but no interstate goes through. If you want to drive through the Smokies, go to Gatlinburg, TN or Cherokee, NC and then take 441 across the mountain. That's an interesting drive on both sides of the hill.
Reporting from Marion, North Carolina.
We did the 441 across the mountains. Agree it's an interesting drive. Just be patient and enjoy the view.
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Quote from: BeastMaster on January 31, 2015, 04:43:26 PMWe did the 441 across the mountains. Agree it's an interesting drive. Just be patient and enjoy the view.
Just be cautious about US-421 from Tri-Cities to Boone. Not even a good road for a 4-wheeler (In My Opinion!); I'm sure that pro drivers can handle it fine but I'd never try it in a bus.
there was a very informative discussion on descending grades on this forum in 2007.
for anyone that is interested, it is here. http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=5366.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=5366.0)
Yes, that 2007 thread was a terrific collection of information. I encourage every busnut to take the time to work thru it all, if this topic is new to you!
A busnut wants to make the bend at the bottom, with the dishes staying in the cupboards, without smoke coming out the wheelwells, and the driver's seat remaining clean and dry.
Happy coaching!
buswarrior
I have seen a lot people say "What you go up and over in, that is what you use on the way down". That may been fine in a lot of cases but not all.
http://i90.atmos.washington.edu/roadview/sr2/ (http://i90.atmos.washington.edu/roadview/sr2/)
As you can see from the profile, the western side is much steeper than the eastern side. So if you come over Stevens pass from the east you are going to get quite a surprise including a 25 mph 180 degree corner just before the road becomes less steep and there are no safety run-offs.
MacDonald pass in Montana is similar except the steep side and 180 degree turn is on the eastern/Helena side.
So read those road signs and get as much information as you can about the roads you plan on traveling.
As the man said "You can come down too slow lots of times but too fast just once"
I have seen a lot people say "What you go up and over in, that is what you use on the way down". That may been fine in a lot of cases but not all.
This will date me a little Lee, but that expression and/or saying dates back to pre-jake days. Old school truckers would tell the "new kid" that, as in those days, a jake was not common and was actually an add on for a truck. Pretty sure Tom and some others would agree on this.
Three years ago we were in the Rockies (headed west) and we were following this boy, hustling down-hill way too fast, just a smoking to beat the band.
The wife says, "Why don't you pass this guy, he really stinks."
I just smiled, then said, "There aint no way in ---- I am getting in front of this fool."
Some big outfit out of Minnesota, guess they don't have a lot of mountains there, huh?
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Quote from: boxcarOkie on January 29, 2015, 04:50:05 PM
There is one in Canada also, Michigan and Duluth, Minn. That is where I wanted to jump on, Greyhound Museum, Hibbing Iron Ore mines and then point it towards Seattle. The wife's sister lives in the northern part of Seattle, I have run parts of it in Montana.
Nice little road.
Thanks for your comment.
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If you are going west on US 2 into WA might I suggest catching 20 at the stateline and taking that all the way to I-5 thru some of the most spectacular scenery on the planet?
I chose this road as a way around the Spokane Port of Entry about 30 yrs ago. Not a road for the faint of heart or 18 wheels as it turns out, especially if you are short of time. 14 hours to go 400 miles...
To give you an idea, one stretch of the road is closed in the winter. Not a road I would recommend with no Jake either as there is one pass that you can see where you are going to be in about an hours time, up thru the clouds.
I've done 221 from Galax Va to 421 into Boone NC with 18 wheels too. At night.... Won't be doing that again anytime soon either.
Kevin
If you are going west on US 2 into WA might I suggest catching 20 at the stateline and taking that all the way to I-5 thru some of the most spectacular scenery on the planet?
Hey thanks for the tip, I will keep it in mind. Clearly you are familiar to those special places in America, that kind of get the "pucker factor" engaged. Now days, no big hurry to bump the dock, so I just take my time.
No hurry, no worry, no funny books or coop's ... Watch those Right Handers.
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As twoshicks said SR20 is a beautiful drive ... in the summer.
Here is a list of it's winter closings and spring openings
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Traffic/Passes/NorthCascades/closurehistory.htm (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Traffic/Passes/NorthCascades/closurehistory.htm)
There are two named pass on SR20/The North Cascades Highway; Washington Pass and Rainy Pass. In Washington when you name something 'Rainy' you are saying something.
twoshicks thanks for reminding me of The North Cascades Highway.
I asked my sister-in-law's kid in Seattle .... "Son, does it rain like this everyday?" and he said, "Gee, I dunno, I am only seven."
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Quote from: boxcarOkie on February 01, 2015, 01:33:51 PM... The wife says, "Why don't you pass this guy, he really stinks."
I just smiled, then said, "There aint no way in ---- I am getting in front of this fool."
And sometimes, it's smart to back off a bit to make it easier to avoid the debris.