I have learnt much about the DL3 coaches but have a couple of questions based on what I have scoured from the forum over the last several weeks:
1. I know interior headroom is 6' 10" but does the floor slope on these? I've read that it doesn't slope like the MCI 9's etc but can someone with a D series confirm this?
2. Brian had mentioned in other posts that the 102DL3 flexes a lot tearing up floors. Can someone elaborate on this? It tears up wood floors? Tile, Marble? Brian, please tell me you were exaggerating a little cause a coach that flexes too much can't seem to me to make a good conversion candidate.
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Hi Scott, I would think a 45' flexs more than a 40', which flexs more than a 35'. My 102C3 slopes up from front to back a small amount, we found this out building the kitchen and bath, also when the aluminum spacers for the lower wall carpet, with aluminum backs, are smaller in back than in front. Clifford is finding out a lot about Ds. Good luck on your search, lvmci...
Yes, they flex, but with 55 seats and the baggage space for each of them to bring substantial luggage, the question is whether a busnut will load the coach heavy enough to trigger failures?
Note the AC is mounted forward. Over time, all the heavy utilities have drifted rearward in coach design for a reason. A busnut often lightens this area.
The DL is known to de laminate the exterior skins behind the floor level trim, if ignored, you can plainly see it on a poorly maintained coach.
The DL are known for flexing the plywood in the floors in certain places, delaminating the flooring glued to it. Water from daily mopping gets in there are speeds deterioration.
Out on the highway, in a stick shift coach, you can feel a little flex in the shifter movement under the right rise and fall in the road.
Knowing all this, I would still convert a carefully chosen DL, being conscious of where to place the conversion pieces. I can't remember if there was a suggested way to stiffen the coach, a busnut would have no difficulty, since we strip the coach empty anyway. The big money is having to put the coach back together for revenue service.
The DL is the last coach which was an extension of my body. It was always exactly where my brain wanted it on the road. All that came after just don't behave the same.
Happy coaching!
buswarrior
what about a 102d3 only 40 ' long if I were to do it again that is the bus I would start with
dave
Thanks Brian. That helps me understand the beast a little better. I careful inspection sounds necessary if we find a candidate.
Dave, we've tossed this around for over a year now so we are pretty set on 45'
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MCI had a kit just check the DL3 if it has the 2x3 in solid S/S bar the runs the full length under the baggage compartments from the rear wheels to the front wheels they don't flex I don't know what year that became standard ,the 96 I got from John has that bar on both sides
Scott,
Our bus, that Clifford now has, is a DL3. I never noticed any flexing issue. There are somethings to watch for.
If it was run in the North/Northeast, watch out. It will probably be rusted in places that you cannot see.
Otherwise, it was a pretty good bus. It would have been much better if it would have been maintained before it was sold to us.
John
Interesting about the stainless bars. I will never buy a northern coach. I can fix most anything but not a rusty chassis
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Don't know about the DL3 but their's a 2000 MCI 102 EL 3 Coach Bus, Engine: 12.7L L6 Diesel, Model 102EL3 on the GSA site. Start off price of $46,000 bucks.
Rust is just a inconvenience for Eagle people and now for a MCI person this DL3 is snap the little bit of rust on it and easy to get to
Unless you buy a bus straight from a transit operator in a southern state how can you be confident the bus was never run up north? A lot of older buses are no longer on the first operator, and ever southern operators sometimes make trips up north. I made a single trip with my bus during the winter when salt was being heavily used. It caused all kinds of surface rust underneath and I think the rust was the primary reason I ended up with brake chamber issues. It doesn't help that my bus sat for months with the salt on everything as it was too cold to hose it off.
I looked at ABC bus in Minnesota when I was looking for a bus and a lot of those buses were heavily rusted. A number of them should have been stripped for parts and sent to the scrapper. Metal skin rusted all the way through and structural parts that looked like Swiss cheese. Most of them were Van Hools before they used stainless.
You can't know, but I can look in certain places for rust. If it ain't in those places, I have no worries :)
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Hi Scott, most MCIs have characteristic rust areas, if the engine compartment is set up, as they always were built, meaning the upper radiators compartment, the junction box behind the rear wheels, spare area behind the bumper and HVAC behind and between the front wheels, I know this applys thru the 102C3s and possibly the 102D3s. As an example, the sub chassis holding up the radiator box, gets the salt spray forced past the beams that hold up the box, consequently the constant force of the spray pulled in by the squrriel cage, bombard those beams with salt spray, our forum has many articles about these bad design areas, Scott I think you should trust yourself to look for the trouble spots, unless your so enamored with a bus, you cant see straight, lvmci...
That's so true. On ours you can see the places where rust occurs. I don't think everyone realizes this cause not all have stripped their coach down to the frame, but we have. And I can tell you, even though theirs a ton of stainless and aluminum, there's a ton of mild steel in these MCI's too. And if they are rusted in certain areas it can be major drama. We had to cut out a lot of rusted beams above the windshield the rear cap and floor and weld in new steel. The steel we welded in is much thicker than the mild steel skeleton of the coach. Also, aluminum corrodes too and given enough time, it will corrode to the point it's just as destructive as rust on steel. And if the aluminum is touching steel, some sort of electrolysis occurs and it corrodes too. So yeah, I absolutely know where to look. One question though, photos I've seen of the newer EL3 and J4500 coaches indicate that framework above the belt line is stainless now. Is this true?
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The D, J and E employ a lot more stainless, and are different beasts than those that came before.
The J and E are siblings, the D a cousin.
There is no free lunch. Stainless resists the corrosion typical of mild steel, but it doesn't like to flex. Stress cracking is the issue. And then welding it isn't as forgiving to the hobbyist or professional!
Happy coaching!
buswarrior
Noooooo! I want a free lunch! :-/ Heather and I are going to keep looking for chassis. I really like Jim Hustons EL3 but it's just likely too much work for us right now. If someone comes across a DL3 with a raised roof, let us know :)
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Quote from: Scott Bennett on January 28, 2015, 07:20:51 AM
----If someone comes across a DL3 with a raised roof, let us know :)
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We just let one go....For a really good price to ;D You are like three months too late.
Quote from: Scott Bennett on January 28, 2015, 07:20:51 AM
If someone comes across a DL3 with a raised roof, let us know. . .
Scott -OEM headroom in a DL3 or DL4500 is 78.25" (six foot six), so would you still need a roof raise?
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Yep rj. Right now I have 7 feet of headroom and no ducted air. So I want that much with ducted air on the next coach. :) I'm spoiled
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Quote from: RJ on January 28, 2015, 03:47:50 PM
Scott -
OEM headroom in a DL3 or DL4500 is 78.25" (six foot six), so would you still need a roof raise?
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
102DL3 headroom is 82" and same with D4500 and D4505 up to the 2007 model year. For the 2008 model year and later, they changed it to 78.25".
Is that true? Those are not the numbers I've read.
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Hi All, I've been looking all over for the inside headroom of the 102C3 but can't find it, do you know RJ? And where do you find that?, tom...
on mine it is 77.5 " at the front and 74 " at the rear . Now this is as it is finished . with the heated floor -1.5 " and I framed down the ceiling down 1.5 " for spray foam insulation . total of - 3 "
so mine was 80.5 " before at the front and 77" at the back when it was in bus form
hope this helps
dave
Thanks Dave, tom...
Check out this link. If it's accurate it's very informative: http://busesandmore.com/mci-buses/MCI-history.shtml
The c3 had high cei
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Quote from: Scott Bennett on January 29, 2015, 07:24:38 PM
Is that true? Those are not the numbers I've read.
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MCI D4500 spec sheet from 2000: https://web.archive.org/web/20010816223715/http://www.mcicoach.com/tourdseries.html. (https://web.archive.org/web/20010816223715/http://www.mcicoach.com/tourdseries.html.)
82" interior height.
MCI D4505 spec sheet from early 2007: https://web.archive.org/web/20070113064807/http://www.mcicoach.com/newcoaches/PassengerCoaches/passengerDseries.htm. (https://web.archive.org/web/20070113064807/http://www.mcicoach.com/newcoaches/PassengerCoaches/passengerDseries.htm.)
82" interior height.
MCI D4505 spec sheet from mid-2007 (2008 model year): https://web.archive.org/web/20070618171815/http://www.mcicoach.com/NewCoaches/PassengerCoaches/passengerDseries.htm. (https://web.archive.org/web/20070618171815/http://www.mcicoach.com/NewCoaches/PassengerCoaches/passengerDseries.htm.)
78.25" interior height. It appears to have changed in June 2007, when the 2008 model year would have started taking orders.
Current MCI D4505 spec sheet: http://www.mcicoach.com/luxury-coaches/passengerDseries.htm. (http://www.mcicoach.com/luxury-coaches/passengerDseries.htm.)
78.25" interior height.
I just went out and checked our bus, which is a 1990 MCI 102C3. At the highest point it is 84" and 81" at the lowest point. This bus shell was ordered with an extra 3 in more than a standard C3.
Just a word from the old, you can't buy a shell and build one as cheap as you can buy a finished bus. Lots of the factory conversions were ordered with extra head room.
Jack
Swadian, what's the stock interior height of say a 1998 DL3?
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Quote from: Scott Bennett on January 31, 2015, 09:23:50 PM
Swadian, what's the stock interior height of say a 1998 DL3?
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Info in here: https://web.archive.org/web/19980125101601/http://www.motorcoach.ca/txtprod.htm. (https://web.archive.org/web/19980125101601/http://www.motorcoach.ca/txtprod.htm.)
Link doesn't work :-/
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