I'll soon be putting 1/4" oak plywood on the walls. Panels will attach to horizontal 1-3/4" furring strips on 16" centers. I had planned to use both 1" gun driven finish nails and high strength construction adhesive. Since much of the interior was assembled with double side high bond tape, I'm wondering if I need nails.
Anyone have experience with this product or something similar?
http://www.titebond.com/product-print.aspx?id=b519b393-14ca-4806-8c01-b9c754291c0e (http://www.titebond.com/product-print.aspx?id=b519b393-14ca-4806-8c01-b9c754291c0e)
Anyone have another good adhesive idea for wall paneling.
TIA
Jim H
I have never seen or used this product, it looks interesting though, would it hold up to heat coming through the skin? would it discolor the face of the plywood over a period of time as some chemicals in do in adhesives? I did use gun nails on my ceiling(half inch cedar) with construction adhesive, i angled the nails on each shot to prevent pull out. One quarter is pretty thin for gun nails, i would worry they would penetrate to far below surface of the plywood to do any good.
I copied the "sticks and staples" rv manufacturers.
- Mark the studs on each sheet plywood. Cut holes for outlets and windows. Work on one sheet at a time. Test fit each piece.
- Spread Liquid Nails with a fine tooth V notched trowel to cover every square inch of stud face. Work quick.
- For stained wood, clamp the panels in place with semi-trailer ratcheting load locks and 2x6s to spread the force along the length of each stud. You can staple along the ceiling and floor if it will be covered by crown or base molding.
- For paint or wallpaper, air staple 18 gauge narrow crown staples every 3" along the studs. Finishing nails pull through too easily.
- Fill the recessed staple heads with spackle and sand flush. Dust masks are uncomfortable and don't work well; wear a comfortable respirator with replacable filters. You will be sneezing white globs of spackle for days if you don't.
- Apply two thin coats of primer before paint. If the first couple coats are too wet, the outer veneer layer will swell and pop off the core layers of the plywood, resulting in a small wavy pattern that looks like water damaged plywood. Keep the first coats thin so that they dry quickly.
The RV manufactures use the same basic methods, but optimized with jigs and special clamps for high speed mass production.
Thanks, Sparky. I'm gonna experiment with this stuff:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_256882-14510-280396_0__?productId=3407976&Ntt=carpet+tape&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3Dcarpet%2Btape&facetInfo= (http://www.lowes.com/pd_256882-14510-280396_0__?productId=3407976&Ntt=carpet+tape&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3Dcarpet%2Btape&facetInfo=)
I use carpet tape to hold jigs and fixtures in my work, and it is phenomenally strong. This may do what I need, and I can easily cut it to hold one panel at a time.
I imagine Titebond tape would be excellent, but it's $25/roll and not available locally.
Keep those ideas coming.
Jim
hi Jim, sounds like the stuff they use on prevost SS panels, or this stuff below, been thinking about this myself lately, tom, lvmci...
3M VHB TAPE http://solutions.3m.com/innovation/en_US/stories/waves-of-steel (http://solutions.3m.com/innovation/en_US/stories/waves-of-steel)
PS Sikaflex was the name I was looking for, lvmci...
Would highly recommend just screwing the panels. If you have the need to get behind the panel, you'll destroy the panel if glued. Good Luck,TomC
Second what Tom said!
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Yes, sir! Troweled on Liquid Nails is permanent! The easiest way to remove a glued on panel is to break out the areas between the studs by hand, then scrape the glue off the studs with an oscillating flush cut saw. The flush cut saw will cut through the staples and glue with ease-- it will make someone with a putty knife look like a fool. They really aren't very difficult to remove- but there is no way it is coming off in one piece.
Let us know how the testing goes. I have never used anything like that. Maybe it will make the interior a little quieter by isolating the wall board from the studs.
I'm not putting anything mechanical behind panels. Only need to remove would be major damage to bus. Breaking some 1/4" plywood would be a minor issue at that point.
I'm gonna use some sort of adhesive, just not sure what.
Jim H
Screws. like Tom and Ace said and i would use with Cap washers so you will know where they are for removal if needed or adding wires etc.
Bought a roll of Suretape today. Soon as I finish the furring and insulation, I believe I'll install one or two sheets of plywood and see how it holds up for a few weeks. Titebond tape would cost a fortune. I could use Sikaflex for considerably less.
I'm not interested in the look of screws. I'm impressed with how much of the original interior trim and ceiling was installed with double sided tape. I used a heat gun to soften most of that. I don't know that heat would relax Suretape, but I'll say again that I won't need to remove this plywood short of some catastrophe. All mechanicals will run through chases at top and/or bottom of walls.
I prefer an adhesive that will remain flexible. For that reason, I may end up using Sikaflex.
I am thinking of using Titebond tape to hold our oak flooring. Need to know more about it, but it seems promising.
Jim H
Jim; while your experimenting try a test with GE Clear 100% silicon. I have found you need a chisel to separate two pieces of wood later. If metal isn't rough it will just pull a layer of paint off with it. Bob
Jim- Which Sikaflex product (221?)? Where are you buying it? How much per tube? I am asking because I prefer Sikaflex over Liquid Nails, but it is twice as expensive here.
Sparky, Jim and I have talked about Silkaflex on another forum. I used Silkaflex 220+ which is windshield glue but holds plywood to steel very well. I installed my 1/4" plywood and Formica counter tops in my bus with it. I used it to overcome the body twist that takes place between the axles--right where the counter is. I did a bit of destructive testing on the bond and while the Silkaflex allows for some movement, the bond between the layers of plywood failed and the Silkaflex remained secure. You do have to be clean about your installation as Silkaflex is fussy about silicone, wax, oil and loose paint. I pay a local glass guy $10 a tube and generally use a heavy 3/8" bead with 1/8" spacers here and there to assure enough mastic to flex. Light pressure is necessary to keep the panels in place for about the first 4 hours. The mastic cleans up easily on solid surfaces ONLY with mineral spirits. It comes off your hands in about 7 days so wear gloves. So far, the only things I have found that it won't stick are polycarbonate and ABS plastic. Both held for a week or so but failed my destructive testing. My two cents worth. Jack
Quote from: sparkplug188 on November 21, 2014, 11:39:38 AM
Jim- Which Sikaflex product (221?)? Where are you buying it? How much per tube? I am asking because I prefer Sikaflex over Liquid Nails, but it is twice as expensive here.
Sparky, bought all my Sika products for the reskin from Merritt Marine Supply: http://www.merrittsupply.com/default.aspx (http://www.merrittsupply.com/default.aspx)
Their prices are MUCH better than any other source I found, and their service is top notch. I used 252 adhesive. They charged $9.62/tube. About half what other places wanted. Same story with 210 cleaner/activator and 215 primer. I highly recommend them.
I'm not familiar enough with the Sika line to know about their other adhesives and what would be best for wood to wood. Currently considering Liquid Nails Extreme Heavy Duty Construction Adhesive even though it would require some clamping. Price and availability are both right, and I've had excellent results since I discovered it earlier this year. I should be ready to install plywood by midweek, and I need to decide something before then. Wall furring and insulation are seeing substantial progress. Whatever I use, I'm gonna install a couple sheets and try it for a while.
Jim H
Quote from: robertglines1 on November 21, 2014, 11:35:26 AM
Jim; while your experimenting try a test with GE Clear 100% silicon. I have found you need a chisel to separate two pieces of wood later. If metal isn't rough it will just pull a layer of paint off with it. Bob
Robert, I will try this. I'm imagine it would have the flexibility I'm looking for. Thanks for the tip.
Jim
Part of me is happy and excited to see Sika so cheap ;D and another part of me is crying from spending three times as much for the same product. >:( :'(
Thanks for the lead. I will be buying from Merritt Marine Supply from now on.
Edit: Moderators- I think the crying smiley face emotion isn't working :'( :'( :'( :'(
QuoteSparky, bought all my Sika products for the reskin from Merritt Marine Supply: http://www.merrittsupply.com/default.aspx (http://www.merrittsupply.com/default.aspx)
Their prices are MUCH better than any other source I found, and their service is top notch. I used 252 adhesive. They charged $9.62/tube. About half what other places wanted. Same story with 210 cleaner/activator and 215 primer. I highly recommend them.
Look carefully at what you buy and make sure it isn't out of date. I've seen several stores with out of date sika flex on the shelf. One of them was an RV dealer. I went back a month later and it was still on the shelf. The date code should be stamped on the bottom.
Quote from: LuckyChow on November 22, 2014, 06:59:32 PM
Look carefully at what you buy and make sure it isn't out of date. I've seen several stores with out of date sika flex on the shelf. One of them was an RV dealer. I went back a month later and it was still on the shelf. The date code should be stamped on the bottom.
Everything I bought from Merritt was in date. I bought primer once that was within 30 days of expiration, but that was my choice. They notified me after I ordered of the date situation and gave me the option of waiting 5 days for their new supply. I chose to get the in-stock product since I was in a hurry, and I was going to use it immediately. At that point they gave me an additional discount on the older product. I loved it!
Darryl, did you get my reply to your last email?
Still working through possible adhesives, but I've had an epiphany. I had forgotten about 3M 5200 caulk/adhesive. Used it some in the last days of the old Flx Metro to fix roof leaks. Stays flexible and unbelievably strong. Anyone used it? What did you think? I'm gonna run a trial.
Yes, I have used 3m 5200 marine grade sealant for use below the water line on boats. Yes, it will work. Yes, it will be a silly level of overkill.
I used interior grade cheap Liquid Nails and staples because it is cheap and doesn't squeak and creak when driving down the road. A stronger, more expensive adhesive won't provide any benefit over a weaker adhesive, unless you are using adhesive only (no staples or screws).
Saw a big Gillig at the flea market in Marion when I passed through on Sat.
Was late getting through or would have stopped and said hello.
I am planning on going to Arcadia on the 26th. want me to come by and pull it down, LOL.
uncle ned
Quote from: uncle ned on November 25, 2014, 07:12:43 AM
I am planning on going to Arcadia on the 26th. want me to come by and pull it down, LOL
Why would you think it needs a tow, Ned?
lost rider
Had to pull Gary Tornburgs big eagle to Blythville. " Have pictures to prove it".
Just kidding just the person in front pulls every one else, maybe by breaking the wind like bicycle riders do.
uncle ned
Quote from: uncle ned on November 28, 2014, 09:40:36 AM
The person in front pulls every one else, maybe by breaking the wind like bicycle riders do.
In that case, Ned, pull away. We had talked about going to Arcadia, and a break from the cold would be wonderful, but we have too much else happening and too much that needs to be done to the bus. I'm working like a fiend to get the insulation done. Plenty more to do after that, of course.
Hope YOU have a grand time.
Jim
Quote from: uncle ned on November 28, 2014, 09:40:36 AM
Just kidding just the person in front pulls every one else, maybe by breaking the wind like bicycle riders do.
uncle ned
Off topic, but we had a bicycle draft behind us, one time. We were coming out of Joshua tree national park, headed towards I-10. We passed two bikes, and one of them stuck behind us. So close that we could only see him in our camera, and not our mirrors. He was breaking 50mph, at times. He fell back, when we had to use the jakes ;D Didn't seem the smartest to me, but worked for him, I guess.
I starting using nothing but the Loctite PL 375 not expensive good stuff far better than Liquid Nails or silicone IMO
Quote from: luvrbus on November 29, 2014, 01:30:31 PM
I starting using nothing but the Loctite PL 375 not expensive good stuff far better than Liquid Nails or silicone IMO
Thanks, Cliff.