Hello, I realize this may be a shot in the dark but I got to do what I got to do :o
We still haven't been able to pick up our bus for one reason or another yet. It's about 3.5 hours away and winter now has set in, in fact we are the coldest place in the US as of the last few days, we had -37 windchill's last night!!!!!! >:(
So anyways.... our bus is a 4107 that was already gutted and started on a conversion. It's drive-able but obviously some things don't work, one of which is the drivers heater fan. I don't completely understand the stock setup as of yet and will learn more once we get it and are able to work on it but I'm at a disadvantage due to it's distance from us. I know the "bus" part of the heating and a/c were removed from the compartment under the bus. I did see coolant lines running to the front of the bus and the dash was still in tack. But the fan switch for the dash didn't work. At the time we had planned to pick it up while it was still warm so I didn't mess with it. Now I will need to at least try to do something without much time when we pick it up. I'm going to study the wiring diagram and see if I can figure out the wires for the fan and try to just rig up power for the drive home. Is there a valve somewhere that is either cable run or servo motor to allow heat to flow through these coolant lines to the front? I think I will clamp a tarp to the roof ribs just behind the driver to help keep any heat up with me. Any help would be great. We are looking at the extended weather forecast and trying to find a day to go down there, load up the many parts and pieces the PO has for us, temp fix the heater and get it home! :)
Thank you,
Eric
Wait until the weather warms up some. The front of a bus around the driver is very cold at the best of times. I would use one or two portable propane radiant heaters. There is enough drafts as you are driving for oxygen for the heaters. You might have to bypass the tip-over safety switch so they don't quit with the rocking of the bus. How about defrosting the windshield? Can you rig up a 12V fan on the dash?
More important is whether the bus is in good enough shape to be driven in winter conditions!! Tires, brakes. Is there an air dryer with electric heat? If not, can you put alcohol in the air brake system?
JC
When I removed the OTR heat and a/c, I shut off the water to the front at the engine. I've yet to seal the coolant lines for the OTR heat off. As such there would be no heat to the driver. Check with the PO about if the driver system is in the coolant loop. If not, fixing the fan will give you nothing. I have a MC9 and the system may be different but just wanted to pass that along.
Thank you for the ideas. Around here waiting for warmer weather means waiting until May! Last year we didn't see 60 deg F until may again. I don't want it to sit for that long. The tires are very good, brakes are new, not sure on the dryer.... Good point. I think over all it's ok to drive the distance. I am just worried about ME! lol.
Good point on the heater hoses being capped off, unfortunately the PO just passed away a week ago. I've been working with his son and grandson but I don't know if they will know about the heater hoses or not. I will try to ask.
Eric
If it hasent been removed, your 07 will have a faucet type valve at the engine and at the front heat exchanger to shut off the water to the front area.>>>Dan
LOL I would have some type backup heat in those temperatures with just the drivers heat and defroster with the engine struggling to reach operating temperatures you will freeze your a** off
I am thinking I would be using a big space heater, propane using a temp inverter if need be
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You live in Wyoming, although we still don't know exactly where and apparently we don't know where the bus is located, either.
If you're a native, it's not a problem. If your a transplant, then just do what the natives do and put on a couple more layers of clothes! You'll be fine.
Even if the driver's heat is functional, which I doubt, the best you can hope for is to keep the windshield clear of frost. The term "driver's heat" was
more of a cruel joke than a truthful statement. ::)
Pick up a small inverter and wire that into your bus electrical. Get yourself an electric blanket and wrap around you.
Get yourself an electric motorcycle suit. You can get pants, jacket or vest, and gloves. They plug into 12v. I think you can even get 12v socks, too!
We use the electric vest and are able to ride down into the mid 30's with not a lot of discomfort. If you had the whole suit, you'd be toasty warm
in that bus with no air blowing on you. :)
Battery operated socks? Hunting hand warmers? Basically anything you can use for survival outside would work.
Here is another thought. A full winter diving suit, you will sweat in that if you even have a little heat.
I assume that the 4107 is similar to the buses I have, with the front heat exchanger up between the headlights. With the bus running you certainly could feel the panel around the exchanger to see if it is heating up. Mine will start to get warm within 3 minutes of starting the engine. If you have heat then you just have to get power to the blower motors. They should be easy to identify at the bottom of the exchanger box. You can build a temporary system that has a switch and hook it to the positive wire leading to the motors. If they work the temp system will turn them on or off. You can worry about multi speed later. If the motors don't work your gonna have to replace them or use an alternative heat system. There are 12 volt systems available that you can plug into a lighter socket that will blow hot air on the widow. JC whitney used to sell them and probably still does. If you have not heat in the front you will certainly have to do something about keeping the windows clear, You could do that by keeping the inside the same temp and humidity as the outside, but you will likely be less comfortable.
At -37 he may need some anti gels in the fuel that would suck setting on the side of the road even in 15 degree weather with a empty shell bus :D one of you sharp math guys what would be the wind chill at 20 degrees driving at 50 mph be ? cold I bet
Quote from: luvrbus on November 13, 2014, 01:35:53 PM
At -37 he may need some anti gels in the fuel that would suck setting on the side of the road even in 15 degree weather with a empty shell bus :D one of you sharp math guys what would be the wind chill at 20 degrees driving at 50 mph be ? cold I bet
Brisk.
A good snowmobile suit , boots , gloves will keep you warm for hours . The big problem is air movement to keep the windows clear ? I think a propane heater may make it worse as to much humidity off the heater .If you can try to use the bus heat if at all possible to keep the windows clear . The old v w beetle owners would have a ice scraper to keep the front window clear with no heat at all. Just scrap off the frost as it forms on the window .
dave
Just be very careful with those wind chill temps. Last winter my wife and I were near Murdo, SD with minus 50 wind chill temps and my truck (18 wheeler) fuel turned to gel and left us stranded. It had Howels anti gel in it but, still quit! Called a wrecker and it arrived about 45 min's later. If it would have taken another 1/2 hour I don't think we would have made it! We had a bunch of clothes on, our coats ,under a conforter and sleeping bag. Still shivering to beat the band! Cost $750 to have it towed 9 miles and another $475 to put it in a shop to warm it up and change fuel filters. By the the way, Power Service additive in the white bottle works best. No#1 Diesel is the best straight fuel to use but, it's costly and you will lose some HP and mileage.
Hello Eric- Moving it now is not the best idea but if you really have to make it work, a couple ideas. The heater valves on my 4108 were on the bulkhead forward of the engine so make sure they are open. Any transient heat up front will help a little. If you have a tester, you should be able to find a hot wire up front to try a direct connect to the defroster fan. I suggest an inline fuse. If that won't work, I'd consider a small propane heater secured safely to warm the front of the bus somewhat. Consider blocking off behind the driver. Without some heat, your windows will fog and frost on the inside, (leading to your worst day). If your 4107 is 24v, consider taking a good 12v deep cycle battery with you and a 12v fan so you can keep the windows clear. 12v is easy to find at truck stops, 24v usually takes a wifi connection, a UPS driver and a week. You say the bus is in good shape, make sure the tanks are drained of water (if they aren't already frozen). Good luck.
Was the electric water pump removed with the heater? I believe the water flows through it to get to either heater core. If its missing then its possible there is no water to the front heater. Check your diagram for the panel terminals that
supply the defroster blowers. Its terminal 47 and 48 on a 4108 but its probably different on the 4107.
I can't even imagine starting a bus at that temperature. Heck, its barely freezing here in Texas and I dont what to go out fool around with a bus.
I have a 4107 and wouldn't consider what you are doing... It's cold, there are drafts in the drivers area, so you'll be getting some of that windchill inside. Windows will fog up, you will need defrosters and fans occasionally (are the fans still there?) to help keep windows clear. Add on road conditions, concerns over fuel and air systems, inability to keep yourself warm, and the fact my bus won't even start when it gets that cold... Too much to think about to be safe on the road.
Dave, I had to use a scraper (new) to keep the windows clear on my first rip, returning from Alaska. I ran into -50F and my breath caused way too much fogging of the windshield. Of course, the catalytic heater was making matters worse.
I think that you aught to get your heating working, and if the weather is too bad to fix your heat, it is too cold to drive anywhere safely.
We have one original blower in our coach. I rigged up a house line thermostat that cycled the blower relay on and off. I figure that I could get at least 200,000 BTU into the coach when going down the road.
For what it's worth.
Tom Caffrey
Go get the bus. Dress super warm (as if you're going out in the weather) and bring along a couple of 20# propane tanks and a nice sized propane heater. But, I'll warn you this: the moisture thrown off the propane heaters will soak your windshield glass with so much condensation, it will be unsafe to drive (I've done it) but, take a rag, put a small amount of dish soap (dawn or other) on the rag, and smear it on the windshield. Wipe it down to where it isn't too hazy to see, and that will help a lot with fog/condensation on the windshield. Use a couple of fans if you can to blow on the glass to keep that problem minimized.
Quote from: luvrbus on November 13, 2014, 01:35:53 PM
... one of you sharp math guys what would be the wind chill at 20 degrees driving at 50 mph be ? cold I bet
The temp of the bus and the fuel tank and fuel will not get cooler than the ambient temperature, no matter how fast you drive. But you don't want to stick your arm out the window! Wind chill only makes a difference to people, animals etc.
I'm going to shoot for a day that's in the 40's to drive it home but that will probably be the high for the day. I have plenty of warm cloths to get dressed in but just sitting there and not moving will make it chilly pretty quickly with the drafts and such. I'm used to "working" in the cold, sitting sucks! My wife will be following me home so we can stop and take warm up breaks. I have a sunflower heater that you use on a propane tank but I agree the water vapor will be too much plus the heat will travel up and not get to my feet very good. I'm going to pin up a tarp behind the drivers seat to keep the heat up front with me. I'm mostly worried about my feet as I've stayed in the cold too long and my fingers and toes can't take it much anymore. Hence one of the reasons for getting the bus; Travel to warmer weather!!!!!! ;D
I don't think the water pump up front is still there so I might be out of luck for front heat. The bus is 12v and I can just temporarily hook up the fans under the dash once I figure out the wiring. I don't remember seeing the windshield fans anymore. I won't have too much time to mess around with it though because we have to drive down to the bus, load all the extra stuff, seats, couches, interior parts, then make it back home before dark :o
By all means, electric socks.
anti-fog spray on inside of windshield helps a bunch. also harbor freight has a 12 volt defroster/heater with fan that would help--put it on your feet if nothing else. Bob
Quote from: John Z on November 14, 2014, 09:42:04 AMThe temp of the bus and the fuel tank and fuel will not get cooler than the ambient temperature, no matter how fast you drive. But you don't want to stick your arm out the window! Wind chill only makes a difference to people, animals etc.
You are correct about this but there is a special condition -- I have a friend who is a long-haul trucker based in Kentucky. Many of the new trucks in their fleet were gelling when the fuel should have been treated well enough. They looked and measured and found that they were only gelling when there was snow on the roads, with lots of salt. Apparently, the new trucks had fuel lines that were exposed near the drive wheels and when water/salt was thrown on them, the water/salt was already at ambient temperature but driving along at ~60 MPH, the blast of air evaporated the "supercooled" water out of the mix and that acted like a refrigerator system and cooled the fuel lines down below gel temperatures. Once they covered the fuel lines (and added more return of fuel from the engine back to the fuel tanks to warm the fuel), the problem was solved and instances of gelling went way down.
So there might be *some* effect like windchill in exactly the worst situations in very bad conditions.
But when you're in those temps to start with, it's bad enough to be out there earning your living -- it's hard to justify when it's just a hobby and you could get stuck, endangered, damaged etc.
Interesting info about the ice/salt..... ???
Just a thought . 100' of heater hose and a 12vdc pump and you would have instant heater lines to front of bus. Just a thought . Good luck !
Hey Eric, did you get the coach home? What did you do for heat? Or are you waiting for a break in the weather? Inquiring minds want to know. Don
No, not yet. Was looking at this weekend but they don't have the tires mounted yet :-(
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Quote from: daddyoften on November 26, 2014, 07:27:01 PMNo, not yet. Was looking at this weekend but they don't have the tires mounted yet :-(
Yeah, would have been a good time to do it, if you coulda caught a "quiet time".