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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: harleyman_1000 on November 06, 2014, 04:18:33 PM

Title: Engine won't start?
Post by: harleyman_1000 on November 06, 2014, 04:18:33 PM
  Ok so I started my bus a couple days ago, and it started fine. I noticed water draining out of the metal air filter holder as usual after a hard rain on my Gm 4104. I have a 6v92 engine out of a MCI in my bus and I think the same type air filter (round)? I sped the engine up a little, and then let it idle again. It then seemed to slow down and run a little rougher, kind of like it was missing. I turned it off. Today I went out and tried to start it and it wouldn't start. While it was turning over white smoke was puffing out the exhaust, Any ideas what is going on? I checked the oil and it is black so no water in it.
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: Dave5Cs on November 06, 2014, 04:26:49 PM
does the oil read any higher on the dip stick than normal?
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: harleyman_1000 on November 06, 2014, 04:33:05 PM
 No actually it is lower?
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: harleyman_1000 on November 06, 2014, 04:34:16 PM
Quote from: Dave5Cs on November 06, 2014, 04:26:49 PM
does the oil read any higher on the dip stick than normal?

Why what would it mean if it was higher?
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: Lin on November 06, 2014, 04:44:54 PM
Easy things first.  Is there any way that the emergency shutoff flap closed?  If there is a lot of white smoke, that would be raw fuel, so it would seem lack of air is where to look.
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: harleyman_1000 on November 06, 2014, 04:59:11 PM
 Where is the emergency flap? I did run the prime button when it wouldn't start, so that could be causing the smoke?
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: chessie4905 on November 06, 2014, 05:00:29 PM
   I don't think 6v92 ta have flaps. Sounds like air in fuel system or improperly sealing check valve. Unscrew fuel filter; is it clear full or down. If down that is most likely your problem. BTW, you DO have plenty of fuel in tank? Oh, and what was the outside temp when you had this issue?
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: Dave5Cs on November 06, 2014, 06:46:47 PM
Scott it would mean you had coolant in the oil was just wondering.
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: brmax on November 06, 2014, 07:17:17 PM
Do you have any pics of the motor top, and can you start the engine from the rear. Just curious if it was electronic but anyhow you mentioned it smoke like it was getting some fuel?
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: itspaidfor on November 06, 2014, 07:29:12 PM
Yep first place to start as chessie says is with fuel filters take off one at a time make sure they are full of fuel restart.
Title: Re: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: daddyoften on November 06, 2014, 07:44:56 PM
A raise in oil level that still resembles oil would mean a diesel leak, most likely from a bad injector. If the oil looks like a milk shake after it had been running is a good indication of antifreeze. But if you check it after sitting for awhile the water will separate and sink to the bottom and the dipstick with only show oil and at a higher level. FWIW
Eric
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: harleyman_1000 on November 06, 2014, 08:13:14 PM
It was in the 40's
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: sdc53 on November 06, 2014, 09:28:32 PM
Mine will puff white smoke if I try to start it when it's too cold outside. You can smell the unburned diesel in it. 

Was it warmer the other day when it started OK?
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: jetart on November 07, 2014, 06:27:42 AM
Mine does not like to start in the 40's - and when it does I get clouds to whitish smoke.  If you have a block heater plug that in and give it another try.
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: luvrbus on November 07, 2014, 06:42:23 AM
He just has fuel problem no prime the 6v92 are not as hard starting as the old A timed 8v71 you get below 30 with a A timed engine they need a little help where the std timed engines will fire
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: harleyman_1000 on November 07, 2014, 07:07:43 AM
 I could smell the fuel when I tried to start it.
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: luvrbus on November 07, 2014, 07:15:35 AM
That doesn't mean much if fuel and air mix before the injector atomization that is what you get   
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: wg4t50 on November 07, 2014, 08:42:03 AM
never over look the Dog Bone being stripped, easy to over look and easy to check, see it the blower is turning while cranking. mostly on the 71 series, the 92 have a better spline design, have had 3 in my experience, hard to find if your not aware.
Checking the dog one is easy, quick and reassuring.
Dave M
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: Utahclaimjumper on November 07, 2014, 08:51:24 AM
 Scott,, if your starting the engine "just to hear it run"< DON'T!!  Only start it if you intend to drive it for awhile..>>>Dan
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: harleyman_1000 on November 07, 2014, 11:39:12 AM
 I am starting it to take it and have my metal waste tank welded, and so I can get my BMW out of the garage to get it licensed. Where is the dog bone?
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: luvrbus on November 07, 2014, 11:54:27 AM
The first thing you do is break the priming pump line and see if it is pumping fuel most of those have a filter and check valve to plug up,the wishbone or fuel pump drive is in the blower cover you don't want to go there yet

No one here knows anything about your priming setup valved or inline ? so it is all a guessing game to us but with a priming pump with a hose loose it should have a steady stream of fuel and should run the engine if working
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: harleyman_1000 on November 10, 2014, 05:55:54 PM
 Ok I put 10 gallons of fuel in the bus and it started, and ran for a minute or two, but then died? I'm guessing there is air in the fuel system? Am I supposed to bleed the air out of the fuel system? It will start and run for a few seconds but then dies. If so, where do I bleed the air out?
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: harleyman_1000 on November 10, 2014, 05:56:58 PM
 I bought a service manual, but won't have it for a few days.
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: itspaidfor on November 10, 2014, 05:58:41 PM
Next time you start it hold the throttle half way down for 15 - 20 sec let it run this way it will purge the air.
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: luvrbus on November 10, 2014, 06:01:33 PM
Change the fuel filters fill the filters with fuel before installing and let the priming pump run for about 5 minutes it should go
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: harleyman_1000 on November 10, 2014, 06:08:33 PM
 Can someone tell me the fuel filter the 6v92 uses? My filters don't have any numbers on them?
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: Dave5Cs on November 10, 2014, 06:38:17 PM
Scott if you have spin on type go to a NAPA and they will have it in their books. Or go on line to Diesel Pro and they can send them to you. You need 1 Primary and 1 secondary filter. Also any big rig shop will probably have them too. HTH
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: luvrbus on November 10, 2014, 07:16:19 PM
Napa numbers 3118 primary 3120 secondary

good luck
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: wg4t50 on November 11, 2014, 12:21:11 AM
Dog Bone might not be the correct name for the drive shaft between the rear case gears and the blower including the fuel pump & governor, easy to check, if the blower is not turning while cranking, would be looking at the dog bone condition.  The 92 series I have seen use a better spline on that drive shaft and they seem to have less wear & failures.
Dave M
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: sledhead on November 11, 2014, 04:59:16 AM
This is what I use   wix fuel 33120 and 33118  oil 51970 trans 1@ 51623 , 1@ 51970 air filter baldwin pa 2839

http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/PartDetails.aspx?Part=33118 (http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/PartDetails.aspx?Part=33118)  

http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/PartDetails.aspx?Part=33120 (http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/PartDetails.aspx?Part=33120)

I change all my filters in the spring each year  fuel , oil , trans ( 2 filters ht 740 )  aprox. 10,000 km a year

air filter usually ever 2 years

dave
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: eagle19952 on November 11, 2014, 07:44:26 AM
Baldwin filters are on my DEFINATELY do not use list....
on my last trip I had a baldwin oil filter that split a 1 inch crack in it, my oil pressure dropped from 55 to about 48...PSI. I caught it before it was to late.
There have been too many horror stories surrounding Baldwin air elements and now oil filters..
Wix makes Napa be safe not sorry.
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: Ed Hackenbruch on November 11, 2014, 11:43:39 AM
Put  more fuel in your tank! 10 gallons is only going to raise the level about an inch.
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: Dreamscape on November 12, 2014, 04:20:27 AM
Not sure if this will help, had a similar problem with ours last year. Found out that the hose from the tank to the primary had a hole in it. It was so brittle, it cracked in three places when I took it out to replace it. Installed new hose, primed the system and she fired up with no problems. HTH
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: TomC on November 13, 2014, 10:44:54 PM
Detroit recommends against using Baldwin filters. Detroit filters are made by Donaldson-which are the only filters (besides Cat) that I will use. Good luck, TomC
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: Oonrahnjay on November 14, 2014, 04:01:56 AM
Quote from: TomC on November 13, 2014, 10:44:54 PMDetroit recommends against using Baldwin filters. Detroit filters are made by Donaldson-which are the only filters (besides Cat) that I will use. Good luck, TomC 

       Don't understand this one, Tom.  If Detroit filters are made by Donaldson, why does Detroit recommend against using them?
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: gumpy on November 14, 2014, 04:58:11 AM
I think he said they recommend against Baldwin, not Donaldson.
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: luvrbus on November 14, 2014, 05:58:24 AM
It is kinda of miss leading TomC comment applies to the DD 13 those are not a spin on filter but a cartage type  and the oil changes are 3 times longer than the old 2 strokes ,they had problems with the Baldwin coming apart.

A set (2) oil filters for a DD 13 will give you the big one 70+ bucks for 2 oil filters I like 15 bucks old technology spin on ;D
Title: Re: Engine won't start?
Post by: Oonrahnjay on November 14, 2014, 07:30:10 AM
Quote from: TomC on November 13, 2014, 10:44:54 PM
   Detroit recommends against using Baldwin filters. Detroit filters are made by Donaldson-which are the only filters (besides Cat) that I will use. Good luck, TomC

Quote from: Oonrahnjay on November 14, 2014, 04:01:56 AMDon't understand this one, Tom.  If Detroit filters are made by Donaldson, why does Detroit recommend against using them? 

Quote from: gumpy on November 14, 2014, 04:58:11 AMI think he said they recommend against Baldwin, not Donaldson.


     DUHH, Too early before coffee to be posting.  Sorry, I misread it (three times) -- got it now!   Thank you, Gumpy.