We had an interesting visitor at work last week. Thought some of you guys might enjoy a look-see.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fDWvd_SDaS4/VFQtcop4iwI/AAAAAAAABJ0/XblBjTLCcQA/s800/IMG_2499.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-bxtrm7zwPZI/VFQtetO-SSI/AAAAAAAABKA/R_X0Jw3cgSE/s800/IMG_2500.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3zCWorp7QnY/VFQtbfsxFLI/AAAAAAAABJs/a932_TDDPG8/s800/IMG_2497.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2RdQeTlB7f4/VFQtbJySkdI/AAAAAAAABJo/WfdZ-nGaUIA/s800/IMG_2498.JPG)
Definitely not your grandads 8V71.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-xG2RD1kV80c/VFQtXLHb2oI/AAAAAAAABJI/dB0Kjsc2Akw/s800/IMG_2493.JPG)
Coolant lines and sight glass over to the right.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-V63T8C8NQYw/VFQtXYgrp_I/AAAAAAAABJQ/644TjIi7pp0/s800/IMG_2494.JPG)
Here's the air compressor for the bus. I've never seen a setup like this, but it seems to work good.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-3TJ6zHptpPI/VFQtXJeFq3I/AAAAAAAABJU/9oa2HT3FaRI/s800/IMG_2495.JPG)
According to the rep it has a range of approximately 35 - 40 miles. It's made for a circulator type service. It recharges in about 5-7 minutes. Current pricing is ball park $750,000. Umm, how many to you want? ;D
Zero emissions my @$# LOL
Laughable that they'd build an 'advanced' bus yet only give the driver a lap belt
Jeremy
Quote from: Jeremy on November 01, 2014, 03:26:06 AMLaughable that they'd build an 'advanced' bus yet only give the driver a lap belt
Jeremy
I never saw any kind of seat belt on a milk float, Jeremy! Pretty much the same thing.
Disney in Florida tried one about a year and half ago. It didn't have any emission, but the charging truck that followed it sure did.
Jack
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on November 01, 2014, 06:09:10 AM
I never saw any kind of seat belt on a milk float, Jeremy! Pretty much the same thing.
I almost mentioned milk floats myself, but I wasn't sure whether they really existed in America and so whether people would understand the term. Hopefully this bus is a tad faster than a milk float anyway :)
Jeremy
Transit buses have become the epitome of politically correct poster brats in terms of environmental improvement for many years now and most are not designed to last beyond their 12 year cycle unless they are completely refurbished by their second owner. Transits are clearly moving toward hybrid or 100% electric so expect more ot this. Although there are many clean diesel transits too so not all is lost. We have several here in Milwaukee. They are NEW FLYER with CUMMINS engines and they are almost quieter than some cars and they seem to have good pep too.
Quote from: Jeremy on November 01, 2014, 07:43:32 AMI almost mentioned milk floats myself, but I wasn't sure whether they really existed in America and so whether people would understand the term. Hopefully this bus is a tad faster than a milk float anyway :)
Jeremy
I don't think that many Americans would understand the term - AFAIK they don't exist over here. Those who lived just down the road from Unigate Dairies in Wolverhampton for years (and saw them being towed home daily) would.
They can be quite sexy nowadays (and deliver mail too):
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.milkfloats.org.uk%2Ffloat.jpg&hash=53f8ed9fc5fae383a8490419c396f430e571b710)
Jeremy
Hey, thanks for posting the pic. I've never seen anything like that before. I suppose it's all electric?
Quote from: Jeremy on November 01, 2014, 06:21:17 PM
They can be quite sexy nowadays (and deliver mail too): Jeremy
Oh, I liked them much better when you could see the banks of batteries hung under the milk platform -- you could get a good look at them as they were slowly towed back to the dairy by the flat-bed lorries. The old people in Wolverhampton said that they could remember them being towed back to the dairy by a pair of horses!
A $750,000, 40 mile range bus and with the ac and headlights on about 150 feet or until the end of the block. I think every tree hugger should have at least 1.
PS,
My Silver Series fuel gobblin 8V92 TA posted this without my knowledge.
Hmmm... A new diesel city bus costs $300,000 to 450,000. Sounds like it will take quite a long time to recoup the upfront cost. That battery pack will probably need to be replaced every year to sustain a 40 mile range. A hybrid car battery pack costs $5,000. That bus battery pack has to be several times more expensive. I am all for energy efficent vehicles, when they make financial sense. At $750,000, I don't think that bus will ever make financial sense.
Quote from: LuckyChow on November 01, 2014, 06:23:24 PM
Hey, thanks for posting the pic. I've never seen anything like that before. I suppose it's all electric?
Yes, all electric but quite old tech - they don't need to be fast or have much range, so good-old lead-acid - none of that lithium-ion malarky. The purpose of being electric is for quietness - don't want all those respectable suburbanites being woken-up by their milk being delivered in the early morning.
Regarding the bus - I completely agree generally about technological advances having to make financial sense as well as being better for the environment - there is an extra element with transit buses in terms of public health however. The issue of the long-term health problems caused by diesel exhaust particulates is becoming a big thing in Europe at least, and there are all sorts of studies being carried out that show that the air quality in cities is dangerously bad, in very large part due to all those big diesel bus and truck engines trundling about. So electric buses make sense for that reason - and in cities like London you aren't even allowed to drive into the city in a commercial vehicle any more unless your engine meets the latest low-emission standards and has particulate traps and all the rest of it
Jeremy
It won't be long before some wizard will come up with the new idea to string electric cables above the streets so electric buses can operate on electric and range will not be an issue as long as the bus remains under the wire.
never mind..........I guess that has already been done.
LOL it makes no difference what it cost to buy or maintain it all comes out of the tax payers pocket.I would wager the initial cost of 750K is a drop in the bucket compared to the charger stations to run the the thing
And the coal to burn to make the clean electricity to run it. :o
Quote from: Jon on November 02, 2014, 03:32:51 AM
It won't be long before some wizard will come up with the new idea to string electric cables above the streets so electric buses can operate on electric and range will not be an issue as long as the bus remains under the wire.
LOL. The trolleys are now hybrid(?) as well with small battery packs that allow them to travel on pure battery power easily for 1-2 kms to go around stalls, accidents and short detours.
One of the downsides of electric transit is the traffic hazard. They are so quite they can pose a threat to people with diminished hearing when manoeuvring near stops.
But I'll tell you I have not driven too many other buses that will spin the drives.
Just another of those "Progressive" thingies we working taxpayers are going to have to subsidize. Fare box revenue returns less than 25% of operating costs. I'm not sure if that figure includes initial capital costs and depreciation or not. Maybe there is enough roof surface the "Progressives" can come up with an end user for the solar panels produced by Solyndra - oh that's right Solyndra was only a shame company to reach deep into our pockets in the name of economic recovery. What BS our politicians feed us. Let's vote them all out on Tuesday!
Quote from: Jon on November 02, 2014, 03:32:51 AM
It won't be long before some wizard will come up with the new idea to string electric cables above the streets so electric buses can operate on electric and range will not be an issue as long as the bus remains under the wire.
never mind..........I guess that has already been done.
Yeah Jon but what if you have to make a quick right turn, maybe a long flexible extension cord?
Those old timey electric buses running on overhead electric wires (2) were called "Trackless Trolleys." They were a transition between the steel wheel on steel rail "Streetcars" to the early generation diesel buses. I was fortunate enough to grow up in a city and ride all three as well as three fine Class 1 railroads.
Ah the good old days ...
There are trolley bus systems still in widespread use all around the world.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scottishelectrictransit.org.uk%2Fsites%2Fscottishelectrictransit.org.uk%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2FLyon%2520Sept%25202004%2520015.preview.JPG&hash=72ecc9629251f1f2f2b2d2dea5da8386aa5d046c)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphoto.proaktiva.eu%2Ftrolleybus%2F070816_vbzdatrolloff.jpg&hash=784905c5b32f34da395f2e7a8db71f9870592b76)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vttu.by%2FimagesUpload%2F1561561561.jpg&hash=b0aebf02b9b20afbcdd842494300e31d77f0404b)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tbus.org.uk%2Friyad.jpg&hash=06d32fca3c0701f13214e4783ca94f67ef438822)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic2.stuff.co.nz%2F1338532053%2F835%2F7031835.jpg&hash=a2d5703067482f17a4d517fd8ddb279b1e35306d)
And according to Google there are systems in Boston, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Seattle and Dayton too.
Jeremy
.
Probably drove this one (for about 3 minutes) ...
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1265.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj520%2Fkrank57%2FVancouver_trolley_bus_-_New_Flyer_E60LFR_zpsc2c483da.jpg&hash=5b6c8fee04a071ff9d374efbb015cebd080a6d59)
This is in Vancouver (B.C.)
Milwaukee had such buses but the last one ran in 1965 one year after I was born I was born. My late Grandpa used to tell me stories that often times the drivers would forget they were driving one instead of a diesel or gasoline engined but(Milwaukee had all of them at once at one point) and cause the bus to become disconnected from the overhead wire. Passengers were often asked to get out and push the bus back in line. Try that now and see how much help the driver would get. :)
Perhaps one day we will have electric vehicles that are as reliable and have as much power and range as gasoline and diesel engines do now. But until that day, I will remain a scoffer since cordless vacuum cleaners run out of juice after just a few minutes.
Quote from: CrabbyMilton on November 03, 2014, 04:16:05 AM
Milwaukee had such buses but the last one ran in 1965 one year after I was born I was born. My late Grandpa used to tell me stories that often times the drivers would forget they were driving one instead of a diesel or gasoline engined but(Milwaukee had all of them at once at one point) and cause the bus to become disconnected from the overhead wire. Passengers were often asked to get out and push the bus back in line. Try that now and see how much help the driver would get. :)
Perhaps one day we will have electric vehicles that are as reliable and have as much power and range as gasoline and diesel engines do now. But until that day, I will remain a scoffer since cordless vacuum cleaners run out of juice after just a few minutes.
Hey, Milton, you know what they call the driver of an electric car???? A Pedestrian!
How true. I can only imagine how many dead electric vehicles will be found along the interstate given up by owners only to be pulled out into the field by some nearby farmer and spend the rest of it's life with trees growing thru it and a nice comfortable home for wasps and birds.
Does anybody know anything about that electric air compressor? Name or model number?
Oasis and I/R both make those in the 15 cfm Jim has a Oasis 15 cfm in his Eagle for backup they are pricey
Pricey? I wonder how much... :o :o :o :o <-- My reaction when I saw the price.
LOL I never bought one when he told me the price ::) they work he drove all over the mountains in Idaho on a trip we took when his main compressor failed that was the only air supply he had and it worked good
Jeremy and Jim,
Yep, those are the same wires we had in Baltimore, Maryland years ago. The streetcars and trackless trolleys were the one place we could escape into air conditioning back then. They brought communities together. Today, stay at home, drive your personal car or bus and air conditioning is right there. No need to meet others in your community.
Do you know what they call a pig in a dress? Yep, a pig. Same old technology dressed up in a pretty new dress.
Try getting those wires and support poles built in a US city today and yours ears will be filled with the screams of environmentalists complaining of the wires intrusion on the ambiance of their city.
Sad situation.
Well these days I really don't want to meet the people that leave bodily waste on the seat next to me on the bus. I'm not saying that everyone who rides a transit but is a drunken bum or criminal. But every drunken bum,criminal or just plain goof that stinks rides a transit bus at times and I would not want to get to know them. That's what gives transit a bad name but nobody wants to be "mean" and put them in prison or some other place to help them and protect the people who either can't of elect not to own a car and just want to go to work or shopping. I only ride our transit system once a year to our state fair since parking is a mess and on a trip like that, you'll encounter no criminal thugs or bums. I wish I could say that for many other routes but the calls on the scanner validates the arguement to stay away. Here in Milwaukee our mayor wants to add an electric trolley that goes in a circle in a small part of town and all of the envrionmental nut are all for this since they hate cars. So while this new electric bus may look sharp, years from now it will stink and look bad givwn the currrent way in the big cities.
I saw this quote - attributed to Margaret Thatcher - quite recently in an article about the difficulty of running a profitable bus service:
"A man who, beyond the age of 30, finds himself on a bus can count himself as a failure."
And, for good or worse, it's true - that is exactly how society regards traveling on buses nowadays
Jeremy
I grew up in the NYC area, on the NJ side of the Hudson River and the Empire State Building was visible through our living room window. We used public transportation a lot. It just made sense if we were going into the city, or even if we were visiting relatives in Hoboken or Jersey City. It wasn't always practical to drive.
But today I do associate public transportation (including Greyhound) as being the transportation of those considered "less fortunate". To bad because there are times it is nice to not have to be responsible for finding a parking space or having to sit in slow moving traffic.
In a city like New York and Chicago, it's not often practical to own a car unless you live on the fringes of the city.
Charter type buses or special event shuttle transits need not be counted. So there is some validity to the late prime minister's statement though it may be too broad of brush since not all buses are the same or serve the same market base.
And here's London's take on the whole electric-bus-thing: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20141028-the-bus-that-recharges-on-the-go (http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20141028-the-bus-that-recharges-on-the-go) Inductive charging seems to have a lot of potential (so to speak), especially with a diesel-electric drivetrain such as in the new Routemaster. The article talks about charging when the bus is 6" above the plate - how long will it be until there is inductive charging built into the roads so vehicles can draw power while moving?
John
Few people know it, but before Thatcher went into politics she was a chemist who specialized in how to increase the air in ice cream. The next time you eat crappy ice cream, think of Maggie.
Actually Lin a certain amount of air is needed to prevent ice crystals from forming, a little more air added makes soft ice cream, and that is the favorite of many people.
Mrs. Thatcher was perhaps one of the best leaders England ever had. Didn't know she was a chemist too, good to know.
I once lived in San Francisco CA USA in the Sunset District. Kirkham and 19th Ave. Rode the electric Muni practically every morning and night to and from work South of Market St. Only on the rare fair sunny days did I ride my nice 10 speed bicycle.
At night and during fog you could hear the "zapping" of the trollie cars and electric buses. Sometimes if the wind was right, you could actually smell the ozone. This was back in around 1970. I wonder what "The City" has now? HB of CJ (old coot)
Don't know about SF but Seattle still has the overhead wires and trolleys.
Jeremy - back in the day, here in Dallas, we had milk trucks like the Divco with gasoline (oops, petrol) engines. Plastic milk jugs made that a thing of the past. I remember bringing in milk bottles with several inches of frozen milk emerging fron the neck on freezing winter mornings and plastic bottles just don't handle that gracefully.
Crabby - Thankfully I don't live where you do. Here in Dallas, DART has its own police force and you're better protected on the bus than in your home. Additionally, we can ride real street cars provided by the non-profit McKinney Avenue Trolley group who run a collection of restored street cars from around the world - price is free tho' donations are welcome. Then there's the light rail that has upscale shopping and housing developing around many of its urban and suburban stations... YMMV in other cities :-)
edward
Well Milwaukee has it's good and bad things but we really get the environment we deserve. Milwaukee County Transit does have a private security force that does an ok job of protecting the system but when the criminal justice system keeps turning the pukes out, there's only so much that can be done let alone overcoming the poor image of transit in Milwaukee. In other words, more law enforcement would help but our county board has it's collective head in places we shouldn't talk about on here. :)
If some non profit group wants to pay for something they love fine but I don't. Nostelga is wonderful for museums but the fact that such items are in museums should indicate that most people don't want them in day to day life. We pay for enough things we don't need with money we don't have so rubber tire buses for those that can't drive or elect not to and cars and cabs for the rest of us is where I stand.
Now you have a reason to buy a 50k watt diesel generator
;)
Wandering the country in a 1984 Eagle 10S.
www.herdofturtles.org (http://www.herdofturtles.org)