Hello all! I just wanted to share a few things for anyone that is interested. A little background first my wife & I owned a three truck trucking business for 12 years and on and off drove tour bus for tri state tours on the weekend. I am in no way an expert I will just share what works for me. First off we converted our mci mc8 ourselves and have driven back & fourth from LeClaire,Ia to Yuma,az for the last 6 years. We have enjoyed every mile however when fuel goes up you start thinking. First thing we did was switch over to 20-50 synthetic engine oil & synthetic transmission oil made a BIG difference and yes the oil specs out great & tests come back great! The oil stays in the engine it runs SMOOOOOTHE! It runs cooler,starts easier and cleans up the rings! Transmission runs cooler & shifts GREAT! Also restored the radiator louvers with new air cylinders. If your 8Vdetroit is not running up to temp you are destroying it! Fuel dilution is your worst enemy,a cold running 2 stroke IS diluting diesel fuel. I also run power service grey cetane boost & 1 gallon used motor oil goes in the tank with every fill. This is what I do and am very pleased with the results. Have a great Halloween & Happy Bussin'
Don't have to worry about my 8V92TA running too cool the way i drive it . Plenty of heat summer or winter , unless I'm at idle. Do run a little fuel additive every other tank, even some say naw! Now fuel mileage, nada!
LOL! sad thing is our diesel fuel is not what it used to be! ;)
All sounds good but you never did say what your improved MPG was, or was there any? If this is a two stroke I don't think you are suppose to be running anything other that 40W, I might be off base because my two strokes are all off road and to be honest I have never changed the oil in them, someone else does that.
Idle the engine as little as possible. Not always possible. Once air and oil pressure is established, drive off. Let driving the Bus Conversion warm it up. Heavy throttle under such cold conditions not always recommended. Subjective.
If practical, reduced cruising RPM. This was easy with our old Crown Supercoach Bus Conversion almost to be. At 55 mph, we had a choice of three, (3) different gears; 8th, 9th or 10th. At lower speeds and reduced power requirements ...
... We had even more of a choice. The Cummins liked to run less RPM, as long as the engine power requirement was also reduced. Loafing along at 40 mph at only 1000 rpm was doable; again it depend upon the particular power situation.
Minimum generator or APU, (auxiliary power unit) or diesel heater running time. Do you really need to run that gen set? Use less interior lighting, open the windows, put on a sweater, or let the house batteries completely cycle before recharging.
Do not go on that particular side trip with the Bus Conversion. Plan ahead. Can many things be done with one Bus trip? Same thing with the toad. Lots of ways we can reduce our fuel consumption with just for forethought and prior planning.
Shop ahead for the best fuel prices. The Internet is great at this. Sometimes a little prior research will provide the best fuel prices at the pump. Pay cash or use plastic? Sometimes makes a difference. Sometimes shopping coupons help also?
HB of CJ (old coot) How many additional ways? Great topic. I Love This Forum. Sorry about the hijack.
Thanks all sor the great discussion! Yes I agree you should not run a 15-40 oil or the like however it comes down to oil shear & ash content. We have logged over 15,000 miles with great results & analysis. We get between 7.5 & 9 mpg which is good for an 8v71 in a mc8. There is a lot of friction going on in that big old v8. Also keeps the engine super clean! The only place I have a leak is the fan miter box. I will have to attack that someday. I started using synthetic a few years back after talking to a shrimp boat captain down in cuttoff,La who had been using 20-50 synthetic in his 8v71 for years. He said a lot of them old boys run it down there.
Maybe you can report back on this when you get 100,000 miles with that oil.
Will do ;)
NAME?? -
Basically, you're running a 15wt oil in your engine, regardless of whether it's dino or synthetic, and contrary to Detroit's specs.
The debate will continue on these forums forever about oil, lots of info out there, everybody makes their own decision.
In the meantime, please take a couple minutes to update your forum profile to at least include a signature line similar to mine below. First name, home/base city/state, coach make/model & powertrain will go a long way in helping us help you. Not to mention, you might just find a fellow busnut nearby! Simply click on the "Profile" tab in the above menu bar. When the next screen opens, click on "Forum Profile Info" in the LH menu and follow the prompts.
Welcome aboard!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Nope 20-50 is nothing like a 15-40 anywho thanks for the advice probably best for most folks to run straight 40 delo. Just sharing what I do. Have a great day.
Quote from: itspaidfor on November 02, 2014, 04:08:48 PM
Nope 20-50 is nothing like a 15-40. . .
Sorry, missed the 20-50 in the original post. It's still a multi-weight, which DD doesn't recommend, but to each their own.
Still would be nice if you'd include a sig line. . .
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
That is good fuel mileage if it is an automatic. About average if it is a manual.
740 Auto. Now we have a signature line.
With normal maintenance (which is very exact on a 2 stroke) like I did with both my trucks (one with 8V-92TA and the other with 6V-92TA), both had right at 500k miles when they were in frame overhauled. By using 20/40 synthetic, I'll be surprised if they get 200,000 miles out of the engine before a ring job is necessary.
Good explanation http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/oil-fuel-lubricants/92360-exactly-how-does-multi-viscosity.html (http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/oil-fuel-lubricants/92360-exactly-how-does-multi-viscosity.html) . In a 2 stroke these polymers are not given a chance to relax to reform back into their protecting range. When the engine is hot and your pulling a hill, the lowest number (like a 15W-40) 15 is the only protection the engine has. You get rapid engine wear and later down the road ring sticking. Detroit has always suggested (except for a very short period around 1980, that was a big mistake) using straight 40 weight. In their 149 series that is used in mining and off road dump trucks, Detroit suggests straight 50 weight.
What gives oil it's lubricating qualities-think of chemical ball bearings. Synthetic oils are still petroleum based but refined and altered so those chemical ball bearings are all uniform in size-making a more slippery oil.
If you want to run multi viscosity synthetic oil in your 2 stroke engine, have at it. But be ready for a premature (less than 500,000 miles) engine overhaul. Good Luck, TomC
With all due respect you have it backwards The result is that at 100 degrees C, the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot. And I run 20-50 synthetic not 20-40. I also realize an 80 year old shrimper knows a heck of a lot more about this than any busnut so thats what I will stick with. Lots of Royal Purple & Amsoil running all over in the Gulf in 8v & 6v detroits look at oil shear thats what counts. These synthetics clean up & free rings not stick them. PAO oil is very different than dino. Also engine run remarkably smooth and cool indicating less stress & wear. It also stays in my engine a lot better than Delo 100 40 wt. which means less deposits in cylinders which means less wear. No white or blue smoke that I had before on start up. Very little black smoke climbing hills. I check my air boxes & everything looks GREAT & clean have my oil analyzed every 5,000 miles & change at 10,000 what more proof does a guy need? One of the most important thing is to run grey bottle power service to increase Cetane & lube injectors & top end. Guys Run cheap low grade diesel without additives but discredit guys that run synthetic oil. If I ever have indications that 20-50 is bad for my engine I will dump it. Until then I will enjoy trouble free service. Dan
Why the need for cetene booster in the fuel ?
Count me among the cynics. Detroit Diesel has some pretty smart people working for the company. Oil companies also have some smart people working for them. Jointly they determine what is best for an engine. When Detroit lists the specs for fluids it does not do that based on gut feel, but on testing and analysis.
Unless and until the list of specified fluids, either by product name, brand name, MIL spec or any other description is listed as recommended by Detroit Diesel, is expanded to include some of the stuff cited above I will stick with the list I have from Detroit Diesel for everything from fuel, to oil, to coolant.
Where is Van with the Popcorn when we need him? ::) :o ;D
There is nothing wrong with using synthetic blends in many applications, look at the chemical makeup of synthetics vs. oil. My wife's Prius uses synthetic oil probably because of the tight tolerances found in the new engines, something DD's two strokes might not have to worry about.
With that said tho I myself would be following the manufactures recommendations. As Jon brought out they understand their products better than anyone else and along with millions upon millions of miles of on the road data haven't seen a need to change it. If they did then maybe a good time to look into it.
But if it works for you by all means go for it
Has Detroit Diesel done any recent testing on current synthetics on a basically obsolete engine? Yes, I know it is still used in marine and military applications. I wonder. GM for years recommended straight 30w oil in their 5.7 and 6.2 and 6.5 diesels, even when 15w 40 was available and used with great success in the 60 series. They have always been pretty conservative on such things.How many of us will ever put 200,000 +miles on our engines? I'll still use 40w, but also because it is more economical compared to synthetics. 40 weight is getting pretty expensive anymore though. Pardon me while I refill my popcorn bowl.
Dan -
Since you're so pleased with the results of the multi-viscosity synthetic oil you're running in your 8V71, why don't you share with us the brand name & it's part number so those that are interested can pick up some for their own use?
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Royal Purple 40W synthetic oil for years was the only DD approved synthetic I don't know about the rest of the brands
Dan,
I'm excited to see someone who uses an alternative to straight 40 as its getting hard to find these days. 20-50 sounds promising. Let me know when you get to about 150k miles. If I can't find 40 straight anymore I'm up for the switch. Also - using synthetic in the tranny makes a huge difference just expensive to make the change.
PS- If you ever use that dirty three letter "O" word around here just be prepared for the onslaught. It guarantees 10 pages of replies to your post. They might as well just copy and paste everything from the last persons post who used the "O" word.
-Sean
Wandering the country in a 1984 Eagle 10S.
www.herdofturtles.org (http://www.herdofturtles.org)
Actually you can switch to synthetic tranny fluid with out doing it twice right a way just switch it out after 10,000 miles and another filter you will be fine. As for the brand I use just google it I would sure not want to be accused of pushing an inferior synthetic oil brand on my busnut friends. AS for the knife throwing no problem. Have a great day guys I have to go out & pick up 8-v71 parts out of the road LOL! Dan
Why does this sound like Amsoil?
Quote from: chessie4905 on November 06, 2014, 02:22:36 PMWhy does this sound like Amsoil?
Can't be Amsoil - Amsoil be big, big magic, Bwana!!!
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi45.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff60%2Foonrahnjay%2FDrJuma1_zps60028556.jpg&hash=6c2cc70985ee2efdbb47bf92628ffba5eb759e37) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/oonrahnjay/media/DrJuma1_zps60028556.jpg.html)
Looks like a campaign poster with the top cut off.
Or an ad for a service station in the middle of Saskatchewan!
Are there any formal studies on the topic of multi-viscosity oil polymers needing to "relax"?
I'm curious what constitutes as a "relax", in terms of time frame. 1 ms? 5 ms? 1 second?
As we know, oil doesn't stay stationary inside bearings. Eventually they'll flow out into the open crankcase / oil pan where there's plenty of time to relax.
Also, what are the shear viscosity of a 20w50 synthetic vs 40wt conventional, at operating temperature? If they are comparable, then can we not conclude they should perform the same, regardless of polymer relaxation concerns?
It just boggles my mind that the modern synthetic can work in a 650 hp ISX or C15, yet can't protect a 318 hp 8V71. The journal bearing stresses on the modern turbo diesel is got to be much higher than the old Detroit. Perhaps modern high performance synthetics simply weren't around when GM did testing and certification for the 2 strokes?
Having said all that, I do run 40wt, simply because I can get them for $40 a 5 gal pail. But I sure like to try and explorer the benefits mentioned by Dan. Even if my engine life is reduced, my bus will probably rot before it needs a rebuilt!
Roy thanks for the reply the only thing I will add is starting on a cold day & going down the road is totally different than it was before. Lots more power does'nt lope when cold starting no smoke I can stand at the back of the coach & my eyes don't water LOL! You are correct the oil I use has a higher shear number than delo 100 40 wt. The hardest thing on the old green detroits is starting cold causing fuel dilution (white smoke). Also fuel pump lubrication keeping those injectors free & spraying correctly......Dan
Detroit never said you could not use synthetic oil what they do say is" Product information about synthetic oils should be reviewed carefully since these lubricants often claimed to be of monograde viscosity
The only thing that bothers me here it sounds more like a sales pitch ::) why not post the name of the product and let the people decide by doing their research
Are you a dealer and what is the TBN number on the oil you are using ?
No not a dealer and that is exactly why i will not post brand info. This post is not about oil per say its about saving fuel and efficiency. It is a 10 total base number. There are several good synthetics out there just have to do a little research. I guess the best one would be royal purple if you want to run monograde as it meets all DD specs. However I do not know if it is a true PAO oil.
I like this Guy, at least he's got the Marbles to be different and if it works Great ;D
Higher cetane number means better starts more power & better fuel mileage.
Quote from: krank on November 06, 2014, 07:41:17 PM
Or an ad for a service station in the middle of Saskatchewan!
Can't be Saskatchewan.....I see a bit of a hill in the background. :)
The way my 6v92 leaks I'm thinking about using some of my 60wt Harley oil in it to try and slow it down ::)
Scott , Sounds like you don't have to waste time a changing your oil cause it runs though the cracks. ;D
From all my experience I disagree with the statement concerning the higher cetane number, having more power, while it is true about the startibg better. And lowers the jelling temp. But the higher cetane number reduces hp slightly. When we had a #1 and #2 fuel choice, the #1 was about the same as kerosene. A small tidbit of useless info, only the DDC 2 strokes were approved for kerosene 100% Of time per AT&T KS Specs.
Dave M
Quote from: Stormcloud on December 20, 2014, 06:25:52 PM
Can't be Saskatchewan.....I see a bit of a hill in the background. :)
Hey Jim and Mark the sign's at Blackstrap I'm sure I've seen it there. :)
Detroit Diesel, with the DD13, 15 and 16 recommends the current 15W-40 oil for the engine, and with over the road driving, also 50,000mi oil changes (oil analysis is always the bottom line answer though). Also, even with the very tight clearances (as compared to our loose 2 stroke engines) on the injectors, NO fuel additive is recommended. Only use when in cold weather to prevent gelling.
I don't use any additives, except for cold weather fuel protection. And this is from 21yrs and 1.3 million miles of over the road driving. Good Luck, TomC