Hello,
I have been reading this board for a while, although this is my first post and I REALLY NEED HELP! My Coach won't do over 37mph?
My Coach is the same age I am a 1986 Eagle 15 with 6V92TA, HT740. I just purchased it from an RV company in Farmingdale NJ. The coach was involved is a lawsuit and has been tied up for years so it has done a lot of sitting.
The motor had an inframe a few years ago ( I know for fact) and it has less then 50 miles on it since although it has been ran and moved around the lot occasionally. Today I got to drive it home for the first time right after putting new Cooper tires on it. Sadly it would not do over 37mph and it took forever to get to that. I am in desperate need of some help cause I promised my kids we would go camping this weekend. I plan on staying within a 50 mile radius until we work all the bugs out. But unless this gets fixed its not leaving the driveway.
I am a fairly competent mechanic, and I am an active duty Marine with experience on the 8V92TA on our LVS trucks. Below I will list the facts and I know them, if you have any advise or know whats going on I would grateful of anything.
Facts
-Wont accelerate over 37MPH
-Without a load engine revs to atleast 2k (I don't have a tach so I can't say exactly)
-Transmission shifts felt fine and I could down shift with air shifter.
-The throttle is an air throttle
-The boost gauge when attempting to drive through the parking brakes to apply load only make 3-5 PSI
-The high Idle does not work ( I can hear the air solenoid working when I flip the switch)
-It has not been driven since rebuild ( I am hoping its just an adjustment)
-All the filters are new use wise but a couple years old.
-The fuel in the fuel processor is way below the line.
-The 20k gen runs great on shared fuel
-The air filter is new and the air box is not restricted at all
-Looking down the fresh air turbo inlet tube, the turbo is spinning freely at idle
-No noticeable smoke
-Idles great, ran smooth
With all that being said, how do I know if the throttle is not working properly or how to adjust it? What else do I need to check? Any Good DD mechanics you recommend I could have come out and go over it with me, maybe run the rack also? Any help or suggestions would be great!!
I look forward to posting more on the board. I plan on being around for a while, and putting the miles on our Eagle.
Joshua Twomey
is it a DDEC engine ?
is it a cable shifted lever or a push button shift ?
does the throttle lever on the governor have unrestricted travel...can it be moved by hand ?
If this is a DDEC, I'd check there first.
Are you sure it is upshifting out of 2nd gear?
Stand behind it, have someone go to full throttle in the front, see where the fuel arm is.
Have you checked the blower? No blower-no acceleration.
Make sure the fuel filter(s) are not collapsed.
Post your location for recommendations on mechanics.
When Clifford wakes up, (He's stuck under his Envoy) He'll have good info.
Is the speedometer accurate? Is traffic blowing by you? 55-60mph in a Eagle can be pretty smooth.
Keep us posted, someone will probably solve this or tell you how.
Welcome!
If it's DDEC, check the two 15A fuses for the injectors - one blown fuse will make the engine so sluggish it can hardly power the bus. Also, you say you're getting only 3-5 PSI boost against the parking brake - FYI, I get 26 PSI under full load, so maybe the turbo still needs to be looked at. What gear are you in at 37 MPH, and what RPM?
John
Joshua,
Concentrate on the simple (anc cheap) things first, one at a time, so you can isolate it. New fuel filters would be my first thing to try, and then filling the tank full of fresh diesel.
I am by far not a Detroit diesel expert, nor familiar with eagles, but the eagle guys on this board will definitely be able to help.
Glad to see another military Toomey on the board, even if you spell it wrong ;D ;D ;D
Steve Toomey
PAbusnut
Major, PaANG(currently somewhere in A------stan)
Joshua & Steve,
Let me thank you for your service!
Joe Laird
CW4, USA (ret)
Guy's, He said 1986 Eagle. Did they even have ddec in 86?
I would go right to the fuel filters and replace. The tank could have lots of water
sitting at the bottom. Generator pick up should be 4/5 inches above engine pick up..
Nick-
Fuel filter2 then transfer pump, follow line from filter. Just in case someone changed to early DDEC look around batt for 2 inline fuses. Also Eagle guys know most Eagle buses if you know name of Previous owner or location he was located? Speculation to get you started. Bob
Smoke? Smoke under load?
What happens if you hold it in 4th or does it stay in a lower gear because of the low speed.
Have you looked at the turbo? Have you pulled the turbo fresh air intake and tried to spin the rotor? Without boost it is going to be way down on power.
Hey guys, thanks for the help and the support!
Mr. Toomey, I am glad to know I'm not the only one, I hope people don't mispronounce your name as much as they do with mine. I pronounce it 2-me, and regularly get in arguments with other about how MY name is pronounced. I find it comical!
I currently live in Farmingdale NJ, near Belmar, Freehold, Brick area. I have only been here a few months, and I am stationed in Brooklyn NY.
Ok,
-I am almost certain it is completely mechanical and not DDEC. If someone can tell me how to verify I can do that.
-The transmission is Airshifted as it used to be mechanical.
-It is shifting into second possibly 3rd at best, but the motor never gets any RPM's and it won't go fast enough to upshift.
-There is no rolling resistance holding it back, it rolls well.
-I am unfamiliar with the throttle system, I am taking the top cover off now to be able to see it better. I can identify the air throttle diaphragm, the shut off solenoid, and the high idle system.
-How do I check to make sure the supercharger is working properly?
-I am going to run and get filters and the blue enzyme stuff for the tank to make sure its good. Once i am able to do at least 55 I will fill up with fresh fuel.
-I know for sure it was only doing 35ish. The speedo is right, it took forever to get there.
-It really feels like its only getting half or less throttle.
-NO SMOKE really at all
Thanks again for the help. If any ones knows of a mechanic I would gladly pay to have one come and help me.
Welcome to the board Josh, if you can lay hands on some TM's for the 92 series you'll be ahead of the game ;) Identify what you have first will help too DDEC or MUI. Post the vin# this will help as we can tell you the what it has or was suppose to have had in it when built new and who it was delivered to. RTS-M (Regional Training Site-Maint) over at the T3BL (Training and Training Technologies-Battle Lab) Ft.Dix will have all the TM's for the 92 series 10 level to depot level they will probably have tons of copies you can get your hands on. We all wish you the best with your Bird and will do what we can to help out.
Check out U.S Coach in south Jersey, I don't have the contact info but others here will. Best of luck!
Van
Thanks,
The vin is 1EUBC6B15GB070056. I will also upload some photos here in a few.
I verified the throttle is getting full throw as in the lever will not move any further.
The kill solenoid is working correctly also.
Fuel starvation install a gauge in the secondary filter and see if you read about 60 psi,I would go buy a new set of filters and install first, the blower is fine or it would not run,the throttle is easy to check with out removing the cover just build air pressure have some body push the pedal and watch the lever check the shut down cylinder be sure it is retracting all the way back when running
It's diffidently not a DDEC with a air throttle you get the fuel flowing the turbo boost and smoke will come up, if you remove the cover be sure to reinstall correctly or the engine is off to the races and no air shut down on a 92 like a 71 to shut it down, ps you will love the Stone/Bennett shifter start with the fuel and keep us posted
Clifford my 7000 list is incomplete and only shows the 1EUBn's
luvrbus, unless I'm missing something I don't have a secondary fuel filter. I traced the line from the tank to the detroit fuel processor, then to the front of the engine.
Is there a fuel return or something that has a filter?
I have read many of your post and I know you are very knowledgeable. Any chance you could give me a call and possibly walk me through it?
Joshua
865-300-14zero9
It has the detroit fuel processor 382 part number 23523140. The filter is detroit elemax 23533816.
Where will i checl the fuel pressure on that.
It has a plug port on the side to check the pressure
It is a simple problem in the fuel supply it make take a while to chase it down but it will be there ;D no fuel no turbo boost that's the way it works
I would pull off the valve covers and see where the racks go to at full fuel on the governor. Since it's a new engine I would do both sides. Just so I knew I was starting from scratch... Who knows, it could have one injector stuck closed or something.
Brian
He probably has a fuel modulator that works off the turbo boost 3 to 5 lbs of boost will not open it he needs fuel for boost
Hi Joshua, I'm glad you found your voice on the board and welcome, Clifford diagnosed almost the same problem on my 8V71 MC5A, I had the original cannister fuel filters and the secondary had the old style sock cover, difficult to change by the way, when I was climbing hills it would only do 19mph, my bus was a lot lighter than yours, I filled up with biodiesel 15% in CA, and the slow down began. Even tho new fuel filters, Clifford had me replace the cannisters with spin ons and we blew air into the feed fuel line before the primary, back into the tank and whamo, 25 to 45 psi of fuel insted of 6psi, could have been the fuel or crud or blockage, or all of the above, more power than I had before the problem got bad,but Cliffords diagnosis was spoton, thanks again Clifford, good luck Joshua, I hope this might shed some light, tom, lvmci...
1EUBC
all of the serial numbers that i can find that start with 1EUBC, were sold as entertainer shells, most to Florida Custom Coach.
yours particularly i have not found yet.
Thank you all for all the responses. Looks like the weekend trip is shot, so maybe next weekend but my Alternator is now throwing fits.
Clifford is helping with the issue. I looks to be a plumbing and governor issue. Appears that after the rebuild they did not plumb the air throttle, high idle or governor correctly.
During the first startup after changing the filter, my alternator started squealing terribly (but was spinning). I shut it down after verifying it was the alt, and the pulley was really hot and heating the belt. I removed the belt and drove it to test the new fuel filter, when I got back the I grabbed the pulley, and it would spin smoothly and I didn't feel any movement in the shaft. Any ideas?
I know the coach is an original entertainer tour bus. I believe the purchase price was 575k and to Chrystal Gayle.
Quote from: joshua1086 on October 11, 2014, 07:44:09 PM
I know the coach is an original entertainer tour bus. I believe the purchase price was 575k and to Chrystal Gayle.
think Loretta ever rode in it ? ;D
on your alternator, were the batteries low state of charge, that can make a loose belt squeal.
I am sure she did!
Ok so heavy draw on alt is causing it to slip which heated up the pulley? Makes since to me
To let you guys know what is going on he has the fast idle governor lock cylinder made into the cylinder where you adjust the idle and rpms for the engine on the governor housing, unlike the holding or lock cylinder most here are a custom to seeing mounted on the top of the governor for the fast idle beside the shut down.
His plumbing is sad he has air to that cylinder that should not be there, he should have air to the cylinder only when the fast idle is activated so it is locking the throttle out and he running at fast idle speed on top end but the thing goes back to idle make any sense to you guys
He has Jakes also that could be a problem too we will work on that later.Not being able to post photos here I send him photos through F/B and he can see the problems sharp young man he will figure it out ::)
Makes sense too me. We had essentially the same thing happen when we moved the Scenic home. 150 miles into the trip the Fast Idle, for reasons that I can't explain or repeat, started working and locked the throttle out so couldn't get up to speed. But for us the bus didn't drop back to idle so I knew right away that something was pressing on the lever. And, as you said, mine is on top next to the shut off. Which also started working 10 miles later, putting us on the side of the road for a second time. Mine is an electrical issue.
My belt driven alternator squeals if I leave the house bank bridged to the start bank on a cold start. As soon as it airs up the load of trying to bulk charge around a 1000 AH of battery bank is pretty high.
Brian
so any luck yet?
Your fuel modulator is under the left valve cover. Sounds like the modulator is not allowing the rack to open. Could back it off and take it for a drive. With the fuel modulator backed off don't be surprised to see large black cloud at start before the turbo comes up-this is the purpose of the fuel modulator to allow the turbo to come up in boost before full rack is open to prevent black smoke. Good Luck, TomC
Hey Ken!
Tom,
That is exactly the issue or something to do with the high idle. I spent the day with the family yesterday, but today I plan on making some headway on it. I am using some drawling Clifford is providing FB.
It looks like plumbing is the main culprit which makes since cause they just did a rebuild on it and likely did not reinstall the plumbing properly.
On another note! While looking for a DD mechanic to help me I found a local guy with a big cam cummins 400, with only 100 hours on it. Looks like the perfect candidate to be dropped in as a replacement in the next few months or so.
If you know anyone looking for a fresh 6v92ta send them my way. Obviously I will get the plumbing issues worked out first, and prove it is good.
Joshua
While the Cummins Big Cam 400 is a good engine, it is large. I'm not sure you can fit it in a 15. Some have switched the tag and driver (like the 1 had) to allow the longer engine to fit. The 1 had the option of the Cummins back then. Good Luck, TomC
The Cummins 400 will fit fine in a Eagle without moving the tag all it takes is a floor raise in the rear some 15's don't even require that as they came with Cummins,Cat's and series 60 Detroit's as a option
All the better!