I took the bus out for a drive this morning and the water temperature does not go above 150, however the other day it did. I checked the coolant and it was very low I think I added 5 gallons to get it full.
What would make the temp stay so low does it sound like something is plugged up maybe a bad water pump? I would think if the thermostat was not working the temp gauge would read too high.
I do not see any water in the oil or leaking any where.
Not having enough coolant in the system to reach the sending unit will cause bad/false readings.
Let's hope you don't have internal damage 5 gallons is a lot to add!
Always ck water & oil before starting!
;D BK ;D
That is what I am afraid of I noticed that I was losing power after a small hill, it was dark and I was unable to see the temp gauge (no light on it) i had been checking it with the drivers light and it was a little over 150. I stopped and added water but it was probably too late.
I know that the sensor was good the other day because I never too my eyes off of the temp and it went a little under and a little over 180 always fluctuating. Today it was cold and I figured that was why it was lower.
The thing is... where did the water go. Been worked on, sitting a long time with slow leak, or in pan? What coach and engine? List coach in your info will help now and in future. Is you oil level normal? Did you just get this coach? How long has it set? How far did you drive it? If you did actually overheat it, damage could be from mild and you got lucky to costly with cracked head/s and more.
Sorry it is a PD-4104 6-71.
It did sit for 5 years it did not lose any water before I purchased it when it was driven normally. I have not seen any water leak out anyplace and the temps have been good, I only have driven it for a couple of hours total though.
The oil level is good and oil pressure is good too.
The hose on top of the engine connecting to the thermostat has hot water in it, there is a valve there and I opened it a tiny bit. I think that this goes to the radiator but I am stating this from memory.
I dropped it off at a diesel mechanic that is close by to have it checked, I did not want to continue driving it.
If that was a seated 4104 and hasn't been changed won't it have the reverse flow bypass stat that stays open when under 170 degrees ? It probably bypassed and sent the water to the heating system
The valves are back against the firewall by the radiator to connect to the heating system for interior. That would definitely cause the water to drop by that much if the heating system was empty. Question is...why would it be empty? Is the heater core leaking? Need to check for that now also. We always shut those off in summer weather, as it also goes to the defroster/dash heater core and added heat to the interior when you didn't need it, even when the blowers were off.
The heating system seems to be working, it was damp this morning and I had the defroster on all I did was flip the switch to low but it was warm.
I was going to remove the thermostat and see if it was bad but I do not think it is that easy to remove unless I am doing something wrong. It appears that there are a few (maybe 4) nuts on the face of the housing that are easy to remove. Then in the back there are 2 that connect to a lower pipe and these seem very difficult to remove. Is the thermostat as difficult as it seems to remove?
Jim
What was the outside temp when you drove it? Does it still have shutters? Do they work? If the shutters stay open all the time, it'll run that cold except till you climb a grade or work it, or put 10 or more miles on it if temps are on the cool side. It is possible the thermostat is stuck open or missing. It is somewhat a pita to pull that cover off since the big hose is connected to it. Be careful on the bolts, loosen evenly, don't snap any off and then tighten evenly so you don't break an ear off the end. There is a valve in the shutter cylinder air line to shut off the air supply so they they stay open; some owners do this in hot weather. The coach has a shutterstat that controls the opening and closing of the shutters. It is basically a thermostat that controls air flow to the shutters. There is also a reservoir that is supposed to contain fluid to lubricate the shutter cylinder mounted on the shutters. That is where the shutoff is. Too much info overload Huh?
Have you shot the thermostat blocks with a temp gun to check that the temp gauge is accurate?
A loose wire or rust/build up could cause the gauge to be incorrect.
-Sean
Wandering the country in a 1984 Eagle 10S.
www.herdofturtles.org (http://www.herdofturtles.org)
Thanks again guys, it was in the 50's I believe and I do not see any shutters, plus to make matters worse there are 2 electric fans mounted on the outside of the radiator, one of them was definitely spinning not sure about the other and I do not think there is a switch to stop them so this may have made it cooler also.
I think I have governor issues too since my idle is going up and down but I do not think that is what was causing the loss of power. When I added antifreeze I let the engine cool down before restarting it then I drove a couple of miles and I could not keep up the RPMs. I was not blowing smoke at any time either. Before I keep running it is there a good way to check if the possible overheating caused any damage. Like a compression test or inspection plate if I did any damage I would hate to worsen it although I think it is already too late.
I should probably add that my engine has jake brakes installed and the switch on the governor for them is damaged, I would think that this could also cause a loss of power but I do not know enough about how they work.
How many hours would a mechanic charge to remove the thermostat, since it is parked at a shop now I could have him remove it and see if it is bad or just have it towed home. I do not think it is something that I want to fix on the side of the road.
I think you are worrying to much the 6L71 will tell you when it is tired if you are not blowing smoke,water and oil I wouldn't worry about it, just find out where the water went me I think the reverse flow thermostat dumped it the heating system the way GM design it to do.
Buy a IR temperature gun and shoot the in and out side of the thermostat housing no need to remove it.
The electric fans are not good a good sign it has a cooling problem or those would not be needed
The hunting of the governor is normal for a old single weight governor the power loss could be fuel filters or the strainer if the bus still has it,sit back take a break and relax buy the books read and get up to speed you take it to shop with out any knowledge of what is going the shops just see $$$$ signs JMO
good advice. if you don't have water in your oil relax. hit the archives, do some reading as suggested. you have to keep your rpm's up no lugging. The infared guns are under $50 bucks now at sears. a must have. You can check wheel bearings, brakes, and your coolant/engine temps at various spots. Its great that your temp guage works no just verify its accuracy. Many times we have had to sit almost at the top of a long grade in the summer, parked at high idle, to bring our temps down then finish the climb. If your worried about $mechanical expenses you are going to have to start with a good pair of coveralls and climb on in. Your peace of mind will grow as you get the little maintenance things under control.
unfortunately unless the shop is old school Detroit savvy...you'll be paying dear $$'s for them to learn....spend the cash on books, DD 6L71 Service Manuals and you'll be $$$$'s ahead. The money they will charge buys A LOT of tools.
We are talking about an engine technology that was state of the art in the 1930's back when steam engines were seeing their last days of glory.
If you are confident working on a model t or a 57 Chevy you'll be better off.
To bad the guy that wrote Volkswagen for dummies didn't write for DD. Seriously the old school Detroit single weights are pretty darn simple....now (if needed) go rent a pallet jack, get a 100$ welder and pull your own motor....IF YOU NEED TOO.
PS all the books you need are free on line .pdf's for the 4104. Do you have them ?
Hey-don't knock steam engines ;D just kidding it's just a hobby with my son Andy. Truth is the guys a re correct. Look for the oldest guy in shop or someone that has worked on oil patch engines. Like steam those engines are simple compared to newer ones. Bob PS the onlooker in orange has a MCI 7 tandem.
I pulled both my thermostats with zero experience. Just figured it out along the way. Its not rocket science. Looking back now if I paid someone 125$ an hour to replace my thermostats I'd be pissed at myself.
-Sean
Wandering the country in a 1984 Eagle 10S.
www.herdofturtles.org (http://www.herdofturtles.org)
Summary: sit for 5 yrs,had elect cooling fans added, and lost power also good probability when you hit switch for defroster/heat the valve opened and drained coolant into a empty heating system.= needed to add more to expansion tank. No smoke or significant oil loss or gain. Probability-rad needs roding out and great possibility your old fuel filters are clogged. Do easy things first. Scott just went thru this with is 6 71. Is that about sequence you describe. Yes a clogged rad should make it run hotter ? is why the fans. Just thinking points. Bob
With the outside temp in the lower 50's, your engine temp would be what you saw, especially with no shutters and plugged fuel filters. When were they changed? If you didn't change them when you got the coach, do it right away before you run it again. You'll probably find improved power and now some black smoke(normal) till it gets rev'd up. Do this first before worrying about other things.
You should also check for a free throttle cable; many of them will get stiff enough to prevent a full throttle. You can't necessarily tell from the way the throttle feels.
For what it's worth.
Tom
Thanks everyone for the ideas, I stopped by tonight to try again to get it home and while driving it lost power again. I stopped and talked to a friend who told me to change the fuel filter and that was it.
The fuel was so dirty that the new filter was clogged to the point that fuel was barely getting through. When my friend stopped he pointed out that the primary fuel filter was removed. I am going to have to drain my tank because the fuel is definitely really bad from sitting, I think that there is a drain under the tank or is it better to pump it out with a small pump through the fuel line?
I also need to add a switch to the electric fans, if there is not already one there. My temps tonight were 150 again.
Thanks again for the support!
Jim
Did they have a primary filter I thought they just had a metal strainer
My friend showed me where he believes that it should have been.
Is there any reason not to have a primary/secondary setup, I want to go with whatever works best.
Mine has a primary and secondary filter. The primary was changed from the old serviceable type to a spin on filter mounted to the right of the engine above the tranny on the firewall. The filter in the engine is still the original type.
Just buy a Davo 382 Fuel/Pro and be done with it they have a heater,primer,water separator and a heater to keep the fuel from gelling then you see when the filter needs changing they are always on E bay they pay for self in filters
They should have a primary strainer that is serviceable, however many have been removed and changed to first, replaceable socks in steel cans. those have now evolved to screw on throwaway elements. Much less mess and easy to change out on the road. Should have a primary and secondary. They sell element bases at Napa and probably on Ebay. You should carry at least one spare set at all times, plus a gallon of fuel to fill them out on the road if necessary. Don't forget a strap wrench of your choice to remove old element. If you add an electric fuel pump, you can omit the extra fuel.Some people trumpet those fancy one piece fuel filter units, but on the two cycle non electronic engines, I personally don't think they are worth the cost. Great on the newer 4 cycle engines maybe. Some primary screw on elements can come with a petcock or drain bung so you can check for water.
I never was a big fan of the fuel/pro till lately since they dropped so much in price used ones now are 50 bucks at truck wrecking yards, I bought 3 new ones off Ebay for less than a 100 bucks each he was only asking 125 bucks each, the old spin on filter base new will cost you 50 bucks they are neat makings priming easy for a old 2 stroke no need for the gal of fuel
I was going through the file cabinet in the bus today and found all of the paperwork from the original conversion. There is a switch to turn on and off the fans and the radiator was converted into a larger one from what the documentation says. I found the manual for the fans in the cabinet as well and it is temp adjustable so it will only come on at around 200.
The bus did have that large glass filter installed because the document states that as well, although someone has since converted it to a spin on filter. I did find the glass one in one of the compartments so I could add it back if needed. I found three spin on filters in the compartment as well.
One of the greatest finds was the original service card from the bus company, the PO that converted it was friends with the guy at the bus company that serviced it. According to the docs it was converted at around 250,000 miles, the hub shows 240,xxx miles so now I know it has just under 500k on it. I also found all of the wiring schematics from the conversion so at least I can figure out some of the wiring. I learned more in the last hour than I could have imagined about it! The original convertor saved every manual from all of the appliances and accessories (Air conditioner, generator, can opener etc) I also found a four page document written by the owners son explaining every thing his dad did.
Here is a scan of the service record, there are 4 pages showing dates all of the way up to 1992!
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi76.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj2%2Fpennuja%2FBus-Service-Record-2.jpg&hash=e49d75967decc41efd2b4a5e25482b4440d2ee4a) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/pennuja/media/Bus-Service-Record-2.jpg.html)
I also have a dozen or more binders for almost every single part and item I've used in my conversion, either their manual or drawing or instructions or specifications, or whatever information I can find for it. This way, when I'm old and feeble I'll still know what I did now, and it should make it easier if I have to replace or upgrade parts.
You can never have too much information!
John
Hum wonder what oil he used when the power steering pump was replaced
Quote from: luvrbus on September 29, 2014, 05:38:43 PM
Hum wonder what oil he used when the power steering pump was replaced
Funny I was thinking the same thing ;D