I am getting ready to get some new shoes for the bus. I got a quote for 6 Toyos installed for $2940. That seems a bit high to me. I know I am going to spend a bit on tires, but that seems like a bit plus some. Does that seem like a reasonable price to everyone? Also spending that much money on tires and living in Florida, what is the best way to keep them from rotting out before their time?
Last year i bought 2 Hankooks steer tires for $1005 out the door, mounted, balanced, tax, etc...in Az. Need to get 4 more for the back, checked in Ill. this summer and the price was the same. Get covers for your tires to protect them from the sun.
Wondering if I should get used tires for the back and new steer tires. I am just worried since there were 2 blow outs when the bus was getting delivered to me. I do have 2 newer used tires in place of those that I plan to use for spares.
Used tires are fine, but you need to check the DOT numbers
to see how old they are. Keep new on the front and used on
the rear. That's how I have done it for years.
Merle.
Is there an easy way to tell the difference between steer and drive tires when I am looking at used ones?
Quote from: Ed Hackenbruch on September 19, 2014, 07:10:10 AM... Get covers for your tires to protect them from the sun.
Yes, this is the most important thing but it is also a good thing to drive the bus regularly. If you run the tires, you warm up and distribute the chemicals in the rubber that are put into it to protect it and keep it flexible. Using them makes them last longer than not using them. Yeah, strange, but that's the way it works.
We hope to be using it quite a bit, seeing that we are dumping a LOT of money into this bus.
You can save some by using Bandag or Michelin recaps on the rear.
We bought our Kuhmo tires 3 years ago and I did extensive research within a 300 mile radius (both Canada and the US) and we paid $3400 for six new tires. I think the quote you got was good.
What a huge difference in handling with 6 new matching tires!
Bryan
Vancouver BC
Yeah, I was expecting 300 to 350 a tire not 490.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Tires-275-70R22-5-New-GL283A-All-position-16-PR-truck-tire-27570225-/141333918449?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Tires&hash=item20e82872f1&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Tires-275-70R22-5-New-GL283A-All-position-16-PR-truck-tire-27570225-/141333918449?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Tires&hash=item20e82872f1&vxp=mtr)
Vern -
OK, now I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into your tire discussion. Ready?
Your 4104's powertrain was designed around tires that turn 495 revs per mile.
Tires that turn MORE than 495/mile will lower your top speed and increase your fuel consumption.
Tires that turn LESS than 495 will increase your top speed and return better fuel mileage.
The most common sizes used by busnuts on GMs are 11R22.5 (smallest diameter), 11R24.5 (tallest diameter) and 12R22.5 (somewhere inbetween.) The trucking industry is currently in the process of switching everything to metric sizing, like our autos have used for the last 15 years, so don't be confused if the dealer suggests a 295/75R22.5, it's roughly the same as an 11R22.5.
Concentrate on that 495 number when sizing your tires, either metric or standard, and you're coach will be a happy camper!
Now, go back to the fellow who gave you the quote and ask for the revs/mile spec!
Oh - how to tell the difference between steer and drive tires? Think of the difference between a snow tire for your car and an all-weather version. Or the "knobby" tires the Jeep crowd like to use when off-roading - that's more like a drive tire.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
what is the metric equivalent of the 11R24.5 ?
Toyo is a good tire I never used anything else after the 1st set they ride smooth and are not bad about weather cracking like most tires
What Toyo is he quoting,they make a lot of different grades of the 11r22.5 tires from the lower end up to the premium grade I never had any problems with the 12R22.5 Toyo's on the Eagle I would expect to pay over 500 bucks each for M127 16 ply Toyo
I am not sure which ones they are, I will have to check.
There is no need to spend extra bucks for the G rated 16 ply tires the F rated 14 ply will last just as long on the little light weight 4104 I don't know about RPM seems like the 6-71 would like a smaller tire like the 500 rpm ::) it needs all the help it can get
Quote from: mung on September 19, 2014, 12:28:40 PM
I am not sure which ones they are, I will have to check.
@ $280.00 ea $1675.00
http://www.fastline.com/v100/Toyo-M127-ST-LUCIE-BATTERY-TIRE-FT-PIERCE-FL-equipment-detail-10c76cad-0d29-443b-9ff1-b3f297895491.aspx (http://www.fastline.com/v100/Toyo-M127-ST-LUCIE-BATTERY-TIRE-FT-PIERCE-FL-equipment-detail-10c76cad-0d29-443b-9ff1-b3f297895491.aspx)
I saw it somewhere on this forum that old / scrap school buses were a great source for tires , noticed 2 days ago 14 skoolies parked in lot in front of a local scrap yard , gotta go check it out !
The metric size of the 11R-24.5 is the 285/75R-24.5-which is the same diameter as the 11R-22.5. Then the 295/75R-22.5 is smaller yet. If you don't need the weight carrying capability of the 12R-22.5, I'd stay with 11R-22.5. The RPM (revs per mile) of the tires are:
476rpm-11R-24.5
485rpm-12R-22.5
501rpm-275/80R-24.5 or 11R-22.5
517rpm-295/75R-22.5 or 275/80R-22.5
Good Luck, TomC
Be careful on tire sizes on your coach. If you had 12:00Rx22.5 with 4:11 rear end ratio the top speed will be 69 mph@2200 rpm; 3:55 rear will equate to 79 mph@2200 rpm. 3:55 rear would be ok with 11:00Rx22.5 since you would lose about 3 to 4 mph top speed. With 4:11's you may want to go to a 24.5 rim with 1100's or 295's to keep your top speed. Since you don't want to run against the governor cruising, figure on 5 to 7 mph less for economical cruising. When you start pounding out the miles against the governor, that's when the oil starts leaking from all the less than perfect gaskets and seals, and other issues.
How fast will it go with 22's and spinners?
Anyway, Eagle, thanks, I will check St. Lucy battery and Tire. They have a good rep around here.
Last month put on 11 X 22.5 G rated 14 ply, Toyo's 6 for $2,786.00 with truck balancing, tax 8.00, mounting, CA tire fee and disposal fee. They ride very smooth.
There is a St. Lucy Tire and Battery about 30 min South of me, so I will see what kind of deal they will offer me.
Watch what you buy I read the ad I am thinking that is a trailer tire you can use on the steer axle
I'm running XZE2 Michelin steers and R227 Bridgestone every where else...they are all position, I would assume that any steer tire would be suited to the drives...but I know less about tires than I should...
I never saw trailer tires used on the drive but I will ask a friend that is VP for Toyo of the southwest
Quote from: luvrbus on September 19, 2014, 12:22:39 PM
Toyo is a good tire I would expect to pay over 500 bucks each for M127 16 ply Toyo
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Clifford, I just looked up what you suggested....after looking at Toyo's web site the M127 is probably not even made anymore.
maybe the M177 was what you mean.... the M127 (if they even have it, the web site might be as out of date as I am..)... ???
These are their current trailer tires available:
http://toyotires.com/tbr/tires/trailer-position-tires (http://toyotires.com/tbr/tires/trailer-position-tires)
Price of tires today is crazy I paid 1200 bucks in Aug for 4 Toyo A22 for a Lexus SUV and the guy said he was giving me a buy ???
Can anyone tell me how many revs per mile with 315/80 r22.5 thanx
Michelin XZA2- 315x80x22.5 is 492 per mile. Other brands or models may be a couple of rpm more or less. I assume this is with new tread. About 29 engine rpm faster.
Quote from: loveshack on September 21, 2014, 09:53:04 AM
Can anyone tell me how many revs per mile with 315/80 r22.5 thanx
Bruce -Go to the website for your tire manufacturer and look up the specs for your tire. As Chessie says, each builder is slightly different.
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 21, 2014, 10:42:53 AM
Michelin XZA2- 315x80x22.5 is 492 per mile. About 29 engine rpm faster.
Chessie -I think you mean 29 fewer rpm at the same road speed. 492 is fewer revs/mile than the designed 495.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Faster engine rpm compared to running 12:00xr22.5's. This sort of sucks for angle drive GM's. Maybe we need to have China manufacture some 3:70 or 3:90 ratio gear sets for us.
Here's a Continental tire book with other brand equivalents and other general tire specs, of course on their own.
http://www.continental-truck.com/www/download/transport_us_en/continental_dataguide.pdf (http://www.continental-truck.com/www/download/transport_us_en/continental_dataguide.pdf)
I'm confident if China made new gear sets for us they would last at least 100 miles. Good Luck, TomC
On any tire size, the RPM (Revs Per Mile) can vary a few with different tread patterns. Drives will run slower then all position since typically drive tires have thicker rubber making them bigger in diameter.
On my bus, I run Michelin XZE 11R-24.5 16ply, or H rated at 476rpm. With my 4.56 rear end and .88 overdrive in the V730, I cruise at 60 turning right at 1900rpm. Top speed at 2,400rpm is 75mph-which is too fast for a transit. Good Luck, TomC
So does that mean at say 60 mph I'm getting less mpg than if I were turning 495? Thanx for all the answers at least I now know what I have . The tires are 4 yrs old and less than 10 thou miles ... I'm stuck with them for a few years haha
Why do you think that? Everything comes from China nowadays anyway. I doubt Chinese trucks have gear set longevity problems.
Quote from: loveshack on September 22, 2014, 01:16:42 PM
So does that mean at say 60 mph I'm getting less mpg than if I were turning 495?
Bruce -Specifically for the 4106, the powertrain was set up for 1650 rpm @ 60 mph with tires that turn 495 revs/mile. I have that info in one of the GMC sales brochures for this coach.
As I said earlier:
"Tires that turn MORE than 495/mile will lower your top speed and increase your fuel consumption.
Tires that turn LESS than 495 will increase your top speed and return better fuel mileage."
What I left out of those sentences is the word "slightly." Depending on the tires, it could be as much as a 6% difference. Perhaps a rough mathematical example will help. I'll use a 5% difference +/- from the designed 495 to keep it simple:
Suppose you have enough fuel to go exactly 100 miles using the designed powertrain. A tire that turns 520 revs/mile will only make it 95 miles before you run out of fuel. OTOH, a tire that turns 470 revs/mile will have gone 105 miles when the fuel's exhausted.
That's an extremely simple mathematical explanation, hopefully to bring this tire rpm thing into perspective for the GM guys.
Oh, I should also throw out this caveat: All the above is based on the OEM manual gearbox! If the coach has a V-730 automatic, that's a whole 'nother ballgame!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
I don't know RJ, you might have to find a simpler way to explain that to the GM guys. After all, most of them think that an engine that sits sideways and tilted is normal!!! ;)
The idea for gearing/tire size is to get the engine running in it's sweet spot for best fuel mileage when cruising. If I want maximum fuel mileage I'll slow a bit to cruise right at 1800rpm-which Don Fairchild tuned my engine to do. 1800rpm on my bus is right at 56.5 mph.
On new trucks (Freightliner) we're gearing higher and higher to be able to use direct drive transmissions. Next year, a new horsepower setting for the DD15 is coming-400hp at 1,900rpm max with 1750lb/ft torque @ 975rpm! Using a 2.21 rear axle ratio with 510rpm tires, that will give 1127rpm cruise at 60mph! Inching towards that 10mpg mark with 80,000lb trucks! Good luck, TomC
Quote from: TomC on September 23, 2014, 07:59:24 AM
The idea for gearing/tire size is to get the engine running in it's sweet spot for best fuel mileage when cruising. If I want maximum fuel mileage I'll slow a bit to cruise right at 1800rpm-which Don Fairchild tuned my engine to do. 1800rpm on my bus is right at 56.5 mph.
On new trucks (Freightliner) we're gearing higher and higher to be able to use direct drive transmissions. Next year, a new horsepower setting for the DD15 is coming-400hp at 1,900rpm max with 1750lb/ft torque @ 975rpm! Using a 2.21 rear axle ratio with 510rpm tires, that will give 1127rpm cruise at 60mph! Inching towards that 10mpg mark with 80,000lb trucks! Good luck, TomC
that take two days longer to get there.... :P