A 4104 bus buyer is heading to Clinton, Louisiana on Monday 8/25 to look at a 4104 for sale there. I want.to see if anyone on this board lives in the neighborhood and is available to help out.
Let me know and I will put you in contact with him.
Siberyd
HI there Siberyd,
Were you able to find anyone to assist?
Kind Regards, Phil
He may have better luck getting help from somebody in Baton Rouge,Clinton is a hole in the wall 20 or 30 miles north of Baton Rouge
If that bus has been parked outside for a long period there I wouldn't waste the time we had a compressor station outside Clinton there you had to wring the toilet paper out before you could use it ;D
Phil,
Not yet, he has a friend that has a diesel shop nearby (70 miles) and will get 4 big batteries to try and start it.
Siberyd
Thanks for posting this for me until I got my posting privileges, Jon. Hello Busconversions. I'm Lance, the prospective buyer for PD4104-4213.
I'm a full time traveler, working in special events with my partner and child, for the last 15 of the 20+ years I/we have been "on the road". We teach and promote juggling, circus, skill, & performance arts at festivals and events all over the country. Our current circuit carries us from Louisiana in the winter, as far west as Arizona in the Spring; Texas, Oklahoma, New York and the eastern seaboard in the summer and fall, to return to Florida, Louisiana, Texas, when the weather fades. We operate on a small budget. I have a strong technical background in computers, a good mechanical aptitude and have probably worked on everything we own, much of which is re-purposed or salvaged from the waste stream (Some of our juggling products are made from the tent poles discarded at practically every festival we attend). I have have been driving vintage equipment most of my life. We currently live in a 1956 Spartan being pulled by an 87 C20 (Truckity Truck) 2nd engine, 3rd transmission, boat on top, both in need of attention)
The quality and ethic of design implicit in the engineering and construction of these machines is what has attracted me to consider the bus under discussion. That and it's price. (almost reasonable if she runs)
I have spent the last two weeks reading everything I can find online about these old Parlor Diesels and the people who have or are still driving them. I'm attracted to the 4104 for a number of reasons, mostly related to their being purely mechanical beasts, able to function in duty cycles spanning several human lifespans, on a variety of available fuels. Also, because of what they represent from a (an?) historical perspective, but maybe just as important, because they come with better customer support built into them, than any other vehicle I have ever heard of. They are well and widely loved for their intrinsic value.
There's a pretty good background story (for another time) as to how I came to the particular bus that I will be inspecting on Monday. The short version is that the family of the deceased PO is selling it, asking about $1200 over what (they claim is) scrap. It has to be removed from it's location by the end of the year. It is about 70 miles from where would be taking it to begin making it ready for the road (in Hammond. ) It was reportedly parked "running well" 10 years ago and has been sitting outside. It has a 1985 rv conversion. It was owned by a WWII pilot who flew gyros & helicopters, and taught flying. He used the bus to go to school sporting events and bought it from a ski team. I am far more concerned with it's mechanical state and running gear than any aesthetics of the interior. He reputedly had very good mechanical skills and took good care of his equipment. It has had an engine rebuild (by a diesel, rather than bus shop) between 150-200k miles. A relative related that $10k had been spent on the rebuild (Could be some cajun spice in that "recipe").
I will arrange to bypass the fuel in the tank, and will have batteries available, but am unable to bring tools for this inspection (flying from NY). Any advice welcome even if its just how you would approach an initial inspection from a procedural point of view. I'm thinking flowchart checklist stuff. If I'm going to do this I want to do it correctly, to make as informed and sensible decisions as possible, when considering a project of this magnitude (Renovating a bus four years older than me... real sensible huh?). I'd like to reduce it to a procedure that could be referenced for any future... well, 'nuts', that will attempt this on other old buses especially the 4104 & 6.
Step 1: inspect all visible surfaces.
List defects, vital for operation? Y/N, g/est cost/time to repair.
Step 2: Check all compartment, doors and openings for function.
List defects, vital for operation? Y/N, g/est cost/time to repair.
Step 3: Check engine oil for water/contamination.
Water in oil? Y:Go home N:Go to step 4
Step 4: Check engine coolant for water/contamination.
a) Water in reservoir? Y:-step 5 N:fill reservoir
observe for leaks. List defects, vital for operation? Y/N, g/est cost/time to repair.
Oil in water? Y:Go home N:-step 5
Step 5: Roll Engine by hand?
Please leave out the step where I get my head examined. I am completely okay with deciding this is too much for us right now and walking away. I am also completely in love with the idea of making one of these grand old Parlors part of our little rolling menagerie.
I would appreciate any elaboration on the predictable effects of the bus sitting in a semi tropical climate for so long. Algae in the fuel is obvious, how do the mold, moss, and lichen effect it's other systems? If it's just cleaning and sprucing I have some good sprucers available.
Thank you busconversions for all of your insight, wisdom and generous sharing from that reservoir of talent and experience.
Jon, you are the man!
Luvrbus, I'm dazzled by the scope of your knowledge and willingness to share, thank you.
P.S. I apologize for referring to the forum as "busnuts" in my original post I had been reading both chat groups and got the names confused. A little red in the face here. Lance
Check the tubes and fins on the radiator if those crumble off by just rubbing across with you finger get ready for a new one.
If the exhaust and intake was not sealed more than likely the engine has rust you can pull one inspection cover and check that be sure to check the air cleaners, if those are full of water the beast fires it will suck it into the engine and all hell breaks loose,lastly and important is pull the valve cover and be sure the rack is free all injectors should work with no effort or pressure using your hand
Thank you Luvrbus. I'm looking in the manual for the inspection cover. Any clues appreciated. I may be able to borrow or buy a couple of basic tools when I get there. I'm flying so can't bring any of my own. It would be helpful to learn what tool/s I will need to remove the cover and air cleaner elements. I'll look for the procedure in the manual on the way too. I've attached the engine pictures that were sent to me. Any impressions?
The inspection covers are on the block the oval cover,I would just stop at Harbor Freight and buy a few cheap tools that way if you do buy that would give you few in case you need it it's all SAE no metric on it.
Make a close inspection of the upper brackets and metal it looks like someone has made new bars from pipe to hold the engine and cradle up
good luck hope it works for you I like the 4104
The one thing I would say as a recent GM bus buyer and my experience is the biggest issue I found was leaks and damage from water intrusion into the house portion of the bus. I mostly looked at 4104's, 6's and 7's.
They have a wood floor, water can find its way down through leaking seams, windows, vents, etc especially if the bus is left sitting outside uncovered in a wet climate, which it sounds like it has. Mold can grow, hide in the walls, floors rot out, etc. The floor is a structural component of the bus.
Get in the bays on your back and look up at the floor above. Feel for wet areas. Inspect for spongy wood in areas along the edges where it meets the exterior wall. Inside, use your nose, eyes, look for water damage and moldy smell.
I would not look at just one bus and buy the first thing you see. I looked at several over a period of many months and was often disappointed by the neglect I saw, particularly in a PO deceased situation. After wasting money on a few plane tickets, I decided to limit my search to buses I could drive to see. A few were estate situations, which didn't help because I was not able to discuss history with anyone knowledgable about the bus.
Curious if you got over there and what you found, did you like it or not?
If you are serious about this bus, go give it a look over, then find and pay a Detroit Diesel mechanic to check out the engine and get it running. You are not equipped to mess with the engine. Don't go for a conversion bus just because the price is great. You'll end up spending ten times or more making repairs to what you paid. Bus conversions aren't for the FAINT OF WALLET. BTW, the inspection holes on the engine are on the side facing the firewall. You'll need to get to them through the access hole in rear inside of coach, probably under head end of bed if it has the typical interior layout and the converter didn't block access.