While I realize that this idea will seem heretical to some, I'm interested in knowing if any of the rest of you have decided to not pull a second vehicle. We never towed a car during the ten years we owned our former bus, but we sometimes drove one when we thought we would need it. That bus was strictly a vacation vehicle. We're full timing now.
We spend most of our time on property we own in western North Carolina where we have a car and a couple of trucks. However, when our conversion is more complete, we will travel more and probably spend at least a couple months each year in warmer climes. Over the past year we have gradually made the decision to not pull a car, and this represents a radical change. I used to dream of getting set up to tow.
Along with the decision to focus on solar power and wood heat, the no toad choice is part of our desire to tread more lightly on the earth and save money. We realize that this approach is not for everyone, but so far it works for us.
Part of our strategy is that we always carry at least one good bicycle. I am an experienced commuter and tourist, and I have both the equipment and the mindset for carrying cargo. This gives us a viable resupply option. I've been researching electric assist, and I will probably purchase a Bionx kit at some point. If that works as well as I hope, we might also electrify our Cannondale tandem.
But a larger reason for going no toad is that we have learned that our Gillig is well suited for getting us around. Since we don't have slides, retractable TV antenna, satellite dish, flag pole or other items that extend setup time, and since we usually stay in places that don't offer hookups, driving the bus from a campsite to a nearby town or attraction is not much trouble. I've never been stumped for a parking place when we want to attend a concert, eat out or go sight seeing. We often do some walking in the process, but for us, that is an additional benefit. I have opportunities to play music at some of the places we like to visit, and those folks usually let us park in their lot as long as we like. The Gillig's sub ten foot height (not counting removable chimney) is a big help.
Not trying to convince anyone, but I'm always interested different perspective. If you've even thought of going "no toad", I'd like to know your thinking.
Best to all,
Jim
It's nice that you have a considerate point of view. Personally I have a different take on the safety aspect. We live and do a lot of traveling in the mountainous western States. It would be difficult for me to ride a bike from, say Death Valley for help if need be. I tow a 1980 Ford Fiesta that weighs 1706 LBS. and gets approx 35 MPG when I use it. My 4106 refuses to go through drive-up windows at McDonald's or to the service window at the ATM at a bank.
A second thought might be to take a tent on your Bicycle and that way you could really tread more lightly.
We did not pull a toad with the 4107. It was used as a vacation vehicle. Usually we were where we wanted to be so no car was really needed. If we were in one location for a period of time we got a rental. It was really more economical than supporting another vehicle full time if it was being used a couple times a year.
With the 40' Eagle, we need that toad. We are usually parked further from where we want to be and do more driving.
Don and Cary
This is one of the main reasons why I'm building my truck conversion. So I can carry my towed inside. When travelling-we'll use the truck to go to the next location, but use the towed to site see. Good luck, TomC
We went smaller so we don't tow any longer so we sold both Jeeps and have bikes if we want to sight see in a area lol we rode all over Salt Lake and Boise in the bike paths it was neat to ride from downtown Boise to Lucky Peak
Interesting topic for sure.
I can imagine when full-timing minus the toad, you could program your stops ahead of time in the bus en route to your camping area for groceries, ATM machine, pharmacy, etc.
And it would also be far more important in my humble opinion to carry a functional spare tire and proper jack for your bus, if you have no way to run your flattened tire in for a repair. (Of course, some places like Mexico you will get a ticket if you are not carrying a spare.)
I don't think he posts here anymore since they bought the boat but Sean & Louise travelled as much as anyone I know and they didn't pull a toad. I think they had two scooters that they carried in the belly of the beast and they rented a car when they really needed something bigger. It depends how you travel, where you travel and what you do when you get there. For us it would have been a complete non-starter. No matter how much off a pain it was to drag the Exploder around, not having it would have been a worse pain.
with an address Wal-Mart, Amazon and a million other places will send you about anything you want cept frozen stuff. some will even ship that, my MIL sends briskets and hams all the time...
fedx used to deliver to a mile post in alaska.
Quote from: eagle19952 on July 22, 2014, 05:18:41 PM
fedx used to deliver to a mile post in alaska.
Yep, I learn something every time!
Hi Jim, I had a motorcycle trailer for years, when it wasnt to hot or to cold from LV to LA I would ride, of course great milage, fun, and in LA you can use the HOV lane. I bought a Motorcycle Caddy that is a "J" shaped front wheel tow device that goes in the reciever hitch, didnt work out well, as Van can attest to, just tow my jeep yj now, drive it to LA, hook up the jeep to the bus, get near the studios and then unhook and when done, drive I15 home, I would have liked the cable or hydraulic sideway lift, where you drive onto the lift when it sits on the ground, but I dont think you can put those on a MCI, lvmci...
Driving a 35' bus, getting around and parking it is not a problem anywhere. It only takes 5, 10 mns to tidy up and go. Driving without a trailer or a towed car is so much nicer. But I can see how when we go South for a few weeks, and sit somewhere for a while, a car would be nice to have. You then have to decide wether renting one is advantageous or not. It comes down to how you use your bus.
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I didn't read the whole thread because I'm bored and I'm also on vacation using a tiny little computer screen, so my take may have been covered, but what the hell...
My take on the toad thing is that it's an insurance policy. It's also a tool. I carry a whole bunch of tools with me because I do most of my own repairs. However, when I break down (notice I didn't say "if"), I need some way to get to where I need to in order to get parts to fix it. That's where the toad comes into play. I drive a 1982 bus that had a lot of abuse from man, weather, and time. And even after all the time and money I've put into making it reliable, it's still going to break down. And it does. I've lost track of how many times I've needed the toad to fix those break downs. Seems like every trip, but it's not quite that bad. Maybe 50%. Maybe more.
After that, it's a convenience factor. That's self explanatory.
Before we got our toad we had 2 of these " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXnZjn5wZyU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXnZjn5wZyU) " and still have them in the bus as emergency back up.
Interesting for sure, Me, yes depending on where, why & when I might tow the F150 Ford p/u with the CanAm ATV or EZ Go Golf Cart, but if no need for the ATV or cart, I generally do not tow, with the 36' Foretravel, it is much simpler to fit in places the MC7 would not.
One issue when towing 4 down, your not going to backup without damage. ,!
Also, I travel alone mostly (DW has her cats to mother) so I am more free to find what I prefer as I am not a vacationer as such, more of a traveler, out & back in a week or two.
Towing the F150 does not change the mpg but from 8.8 down to 8.4 mgg, so not a biggie and with the 500 hp & 1550 ftlb torque with 35,000 lb with toad, it does hills/mountains fine either way up or down with the Allison retarder.
Up coming is the North Platte, Nebraska for the rail yard experience, 1450
miles each way, so no toad is fine.
Glad we can do what we like.
Dave M
Dave M
Great idea! Before I left town I would set the bus up to tow a vehicle. If living without a toad does not work out buy one. IF it works out, don't buy one. Seems simple to me. Good luck JIm
I have taken a motorcycle in a trailer. That is great,as long as the weather is nice... I always have the folding bicycle on the bus.
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Diblasi is cute, but it's not something that interests us. One of the "no toad" joys is not having another motor (or two) to feed and care for. Not interested in hauling a motorcycle, either.
I do love a good bicycle, though. I'm amazed at how many people never experience one because they buy a piece of junk from a big box and then leave it in the garage after a couple of frustrating attempts. Even worse is the trend of buying a cheap mountain bike when what one needs is a touring/commuting bicycle to use on the road. Sitting straight up in the wind, pushing big knobby tires on hard surfaces and not having additional hand positions is enough to discourage anyone. The difference between that and riding a GOOD road bike is night and day. Touring/commuting bikes have all the low gears of a mountain bike, but they are meant to be ridden on roads rather than trails.
Of course, good bikes cost more....
Jim
If you don't need a car, why pull one? If you want to go places a bus won't go, you will need a toad. I really dislike towing one, but I sure do like the flexibility of having the Jeep when we get somewhere.
Jim,
I'm with you on this one. I have a fleet of custom bicycles, (OK, only six now, down from a dozen or so earlier!), each of which is set up for a specific purpose. I've been thinking for the last twenty years or more of making a simple folding trailer that can attach to any of my bikes, and it would be big enough to transport two propane cylinders or a useful amount of groceries or several 5-gallons of water. I will have space set aside in the bus behind the driver's seat to store at least four bikes, so they will be my toads. The trailer will have easily-detachable wheels and a folding tongue, so it won't take much space when not in use.
I've ridden across the USA and up into Canada, and across India and Nepal, and I've got well into six-digits of miles in my legs by now, so another few miles won't faze me at this point! What's better than the two best pleasures in life - riding a bike, and having a bus. (OK, I can think of some others . . .)
John
I suppose it all boils down to what you have and where you want to go. My little skoolie conversion provides only 12.5' of living space which translates into no extra storage space and no bike in the bus. However, since the bus has a 205 hp turbo diesel that provides 441 ft. lbs of torque, my combination "toad and trailer" are really a necessity for any but the shortest trips. My toad weighs in at 2700# (Morris Minor woody wagon on a Geo Tracker 4X4 chassis) and on test runs at least I'm not able to feel that I am towing anything. The toad has a trailer hitch set up to carry my Giant VT/2 mountain bike. Wiffys Pugeot folding bike stores in the toad along with whatever gear won't fit in the bus. If the bus quits I'll use the toad. If the toad quits I'll use the bike-------Jack
LOL a good bike cost as much a toad we both have bikes my wife's Cattrike Recumbent bike goes on the rear on the carrier and I have a Giant that rides on the front on a bike carrier
We both have street tires in fact I just put a set of new Michelin's on mine we will see how that works out ::) The west is very friendly to bikes even Scottsdale.
It was a everyday deal when we were in Boise to ride 30 or 40 miles they have great bike paths there you can go anywhere on a bike with no traffic took me awhile to adjust to a bike but I love it now and don't miss the tow vehicle
Quote from: oltrunt on July 23, 2014, 07:07:57 PM
If the bus quits I'll use the toad. If the toad quits I'll use the bike-------Jack
Jack! Here you are! Always great to see your handle, even if it seems out of place. Of course you have a toad — and a gorgeous one at that. You need the space.
Any paint work on the bus? I'm inching closer to the reskin, and then other stuff can happen.
Jim
For us it depends on what kind of trip we are going on, and it falls into two kinds. One, we are going to a spot and we are going to stay in that spot, then come home. Example race track. We go in on Thursday, we come out on Sunday. No toad because we have a race car trailer, but our driver has a car and can run errands or ferry us to a restaurant. Other kind of trip is exploring. We tend to go all over, looking at stuff and use the bus as a base. It's common for us to drive a couple of hundred kilometers in a day of exploring, and go places that you wouldn't want to take a bus. For these trips we bring a road car, towed on a dolly. We never tend to take trips where we drive the bus to a campsite and just stay in the camp site, not of interest to us. We live in the country, if I want to take a nature walk or look at trees I can go out my side door and walk 20 feet, I'll be in a forest...
Brian
Quote from: luvrbus on July 23, 2014, 07:41:14 PM
LOL a good bike cost as much a toad we both have bikes my wife's Cattrike Recumbent bike goes on the rear on the carrier and I have a Giant that rides on the front on a bike carrier
We both have street tires in fact I just put a set of new Michelin's on mine we will see how that works out ::) The west is very friendly to bikes even Scottsdale.
It was a everyday deal when we were in Boise to ride 30 or 40 miles they have great bike paths there you can go anywhere on a bike with no traffic took me awhile to adjust to a bike but I love it now and don't miss the tow vehicle
Clifford, were you able to get the new Michelins on a FMCA discount?
No but I did ask ???
We did our first few months of bus life without a toad or any other mode of transportation but the bus, and it was for sure an interesting experiment and completely do-able. We stopped for grocery stock-ups enroute, found laundromats with parking lots, planned our campgrounds to be in walking distance of the things we wanted to see and rented cars when we needed to.
For us however, we ultimately decided to pull a vehicle and acquired a MINI Cooper. It's been a great setup for us - lightweight, gets about 35mpg and fun to drive. It's given us a lot of flexibility to park the bus and base camp somewhere, using the car to get around an explore. We also like the back-up option of having a shuttlecraft should/when the bus breaks down and we need to go for parts. And if one of us needs to go another direction (family emergency, work obligation), we have the flexibility.
Here's a post we wrote about our toad-free time:
http://www.technomadia.com/2011/11/to-tow-or-not-to-tow/ (http://www.technomadia.com/2011/11/to-tow-or-not-to-tow/)
- Cherie
I travel with two toads,cant have to many toads or air compessers..lol