I am on the 401 (the Canadian 4 lane hwy take runs between Windsor and Montreal), I check the gauges, only 70 psi of air, I pull off at the next exit. No leaks, but I am not making any air. There are two truck garages at this exit, too busy to help. I go to Home Depot, buy a small contractor's compressor, plug it into the inverter, run a air line out the back window, air up the coach and continue home. Returned the compressor the next day. Total cost, $30.00 for a taxi ride (we didn't have the toad with us).
This is a MC-7 with a 8V92.
At home, replaced the governor on the air compressor, still no air (Governors are cheap, a rebuild Bendix was $24.00, including tax at a local supplier). I removed the compressor from the engine, it was seized. The drive hub had sheared the key and was spinning freely on the compressor crankshaft.
On closer examination, it appears as if a piston seized in the bore, because the rods were loose on the crankshaft.
The question is WHY? I don't want to put a new air compressor on and have the same problem. There was lots of anti-freeze in the compressor, so it is being cooled. The rods were OK, so it must be getting oil. There is an alcohol system on the coach, would that wash to oil off the cylinder walls?
Any hints on re-installing the compressor i.e. aligning the drive coupling.
I have decided to install a small electric compressor in the coach as a backup to the engine compressor and to air-up the coach before starting the main engine. Any ideas?
The compressor is a Tu-Flo 700, Part #289915.
Anti freeze does not always mean cooling,on the 8v92 the compressor should have the in line coming from the water pump and out line goes to the back of the block below the head. Is the compressor air intake separate with a air filter or tied into the air cleaner? . When those get above 400 degrees the piston will seize, all compressors should pass a little oil to keep your problem from happening I would make a guess heat killed it or it starved for intake air
All I have to say on the whole subject is SHAME ON YOU!
buying a compressor, knowing your going to use it and return it!!
Guys like me ,who have make a living, buying material and building, have to pay for people who abuse a good return policy!!
Mike smola
Deleted. Suffice it to say that I don't approve, in any way, for any reason, in airing up a bus with a cheap contractors compressor and driving it on one of the busiest multi-lane highways in North America. Totally a criminal act, against many many laws.
Brian
Brian, wouldn't you call that a moral dilemma? Will Canadian insurance cover an accident when they find out you have a A/C compressor in service?
I deleted my original post, however insurance law is that they will cover just about any malpractice you commit as far as liability is concerned. And possibly sue you to recover the payout to others if you were in an illegal act at the time. Running an air-braked vehicle with inoperative service brakes is illegal. Kind irrelevant, I think, if the worst had happened. Which thankfully didn't.
Brian
The intake air comes off the manifold between the turbo changer and the blower. What kind of air filter do you use if you use separate intake?
Who said the service brakes were Inoperative, the little compressor had no problem maintaining 120 psi in the bus system.
I agree with Mike, returning that air compressor was nothing to be proud of - shame.
You could have kept it as your spare since it worked once already.
I was interested in this until I read that the compressor was returned.......
The drive hub had sheared the key and was spinning freely on the compressor crankshaft....
well that's going to cause more problems....
I am also in the camp about returning a perfectly fine compressor for a refund, sounds like a desperate bus wannabee. :-[ :(
Seems most of us take the high road and glad I do.
Dave M
Go back to Home Depot, buy back that compressor, then install it in your bus connected to the accessories air system, not the brake system! It is for inflating tires and running air tools, and for absolutely no more than releasing brakes enough in an emergency to pull off the road to a safe place where a tow truck can safely hook up to you.
Even a little rinky-dink cheapo compressor can produce 120 PSI, but not at sufficient volume to safely supply brakes. That's why a Tu-Flo 700 produces umpteen times more air volume than a cheapo electric compressor.
John
Brian, whats the CFM on the 700. IIRC BW said 11 0r 12 at 120 which is pretty high to keep up.
Recall the CFM on the replacement was 16 or 17 cfm, the original was 15 I think. Its wonderful to get old.
Dave M
You guys need to get off your high horses and get over yourselves.
Other than the unethical act of returning the compressor, what he did was perfectly fine and legal. As he stated, he ran the line out the back window and aired up the coach, so he obviously plugged the compressor into the bus air and had the entire system at 120 psi, not just the brakes. This is more than enough air to safely operate the brakes. His service brakes and emergency brakes were not inoperative. The Home Depot compressor was maintaining proper pressure in the system and he was able to safely get his bus to a repair place (his home). Nothing he did was illegal or unsafe. Yes, I don't agree with returning the compressor, but that's not what this board is about.
I have personally done exactly what he did when my compressor broke (though I kept the compressor to install in the bus). That 120v compressor ran every 16 minutes to replenish the bus air to 120 psi. It kicked on at 100 and off at 120. There was nothing unsafe about it and it allowed me to get the bus to a place where it could be repaired.
For those of you chastising him for use of the portable air compressor, I expect to read that when you have a similar problem, that you paid the big bucks for a tow truck and professional repair. It would be unethical for you do anything else, and leaving the bus on the side of the road while you perform a repair would be illegal and dangerous.
Yes, some of you people need to get over yourselves.
Boy oh boy does this thread sound familiar?
And that's all I gots to say about that! (except I too kept the compressor, well sort of I sold it to our mechanic as he wanted for his garage @ home)
;D BK ;D
It is illegal in Ontario, where I held an air brake endorsement to my driver's license. The incident happened on the 401 highway which is an Ontario highway. The vehicle must be compliant with DOT regulations at all times when operated on a public road, including the air compressor. Adding a non-DOT approved, non- CMVSS compliant air compressor to replace the installed one is illegal, operating a vehicle that cannot pass a daily air brake inspection is illegal. If it's criminally illegal depends on the charge that an officer might place, and on what a court might decide. The Ontario air brake course and air brake test covers this in detail.
Licensed vehicle recovery operators are allowed to do things that ordinary drivers aren't allowed to do.
Brian
In any emergency common sense should have the preference. I really can not see a policeman stopping someone from moving a disabled vehicle off a busy highway by whatever means that appears to work safely, I'm with you grumpy.
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I believe that has been done more than people admit to it ;D,Cole's 15 axle Talbert 250 ton lowboys all have auxiliary compressors from the factory
Quote from: luvrbus on July 22, 2014, 05:44:59 AM
I believe that has been done more than people admit to it ;D,Cole's 15 axle Talbert 250 ton lowboys all have auxiliary compressors from the factory
They probably don't operate them on the 401.
All I can say is wow. Treating someone rudely because they did something you disagree with is even MORE morally wrong, with what you said he did! I usually stay out of the politics on this board, but not when it involves a newbie asking for help! Remember what has been freely given to you without judging you, and give it back. Getting off my soap box, and checking to see how many people I have ignoring me now ::)
Thanks HARLEYMAN_1000.
I posted on this web site to get some help, I didn't expect to be chastised.
I took advantage of Home Depot's return policy and returned a compressor I didn't need or want, I didn't lie to them, they knew I used it and they took it back.
I want to thank LUVRBUS for his input and GUMPY for his comments.
I hadn't posted on this site in a long time and this is an experience I will not repeat.
As far as the air compressor failing-things happen. Buy a rebuilt, or new compressor, put it on and go down the road. I would not carry a spare. But an electric is a nice thing to have. There are some really quiet oiless compressors made. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: BlakeWright on July 21, 2014, 03:13:11 PM
I removed the compressor from the engine, it was seized. The drive hub had sheared the key and was spinning freely on the compressor crankshaft.
On closer examination, it appears as if a piston seized in the bore, because the rods were loose on the crankshaft.
The question is WHY? I don't want to put a new air compressor on and have the same problem. There was lots of anti-freeze in the compressor, so it is being cooled. The rods were OK, so it must be getting oil. There is an alcohol system on the coach, would that wash to oil off the cylinder walls?
Any hints on re-installing the compressor i.e. aligning the drive.
All the posts and nobody answered the questions. What's the point of a newbie asking a question here if there is no answer ???
edward
I believe Tom did answer one of his questions.
"The question is WHY?"
This question is impossible to answer by remote control!!
"There is an alcohol system on the coach, would that wash to oil off the cylinder walls?"
No. The alcohol system is downstream of the comp.
"Any hints on re-installing the compressor i.e. aligning the drive."
Maybe there aren't any answers, maybe it is self aligning! Maybe nobody knows!
He brought this on himself;
"I took advantage of Home Depot's return policy and returned a compressor I didn't need or want, I didn't lie to them, they knew I used it and they took it back."
This is a sad excuse for an excuse!! He did need it and he did use it. He had absolutely no valid reason to return it, it was not a rental. Sad!!
I get failed compressors from time to time,the water cooling is only at the head the little block is not water cooled the water has to circulate I see it where people have the in and out line tied to the same port on the engine the compressor gets hot there goes $$$ I would check the intake, oil supply line and the water feed that is common practice before installing a new compressor in the real world
Quote from: luvrbus on July 22, 2014, 05:44:59 AM
I believe that has been done more than people admit to it ;D
I agree, at least on the use of the compressor for powering the air system. Over the years I have seen a lot of people, myself included, on and off the forum, use some pretty hokey solutions to limp home. It is appropriate to point out if something is illegal or dangerous, but also recognize that most here have done illegal things to get a bus home. Same goes with moral issues. Quite a few bus nuts have done things that are morally questionable, or at least tricking the system to "get it done." Whether it is registering a bus as an RV and then using it commercially, hacking in frame modifications but then telling the title office no modifications were made, misleading an insurance agent to get a bus conversion insured, creating a Montana business entity to save on taxes at home, moving the bus a few feet per month to beat the local laws about non moving vehicles, making that first bring it home trip with an unlicensed, improperly licensed, and/or uninsured bus, driving it without all external lights operating properly, running on bad tires, taking the guts out of a catalytic converter rather than the expense of replacing it, ... the list could go on indefinitely. Virtually everyone here has done something unorthodox, morally questionable, or even outright illegal in the course of their bus ownership and in everyday life. Anybody here break the speed limit? (Maybe the easier question would be, anybody here that has never broke the speed limit intentionally?) Use a cell phone while driving?
One of the big problems this forum faces is that it is developing a bad reputation for being brutal. There are people talking about it on BNO, Facebook, at rallies, and privately. This is a shameful thing. Just a few short years ago this forum was a close knit extended family that stuck together and supported each other online and off. It was very welcoming to newcomers and the more experienced members guided us newbies along and helped us to become seasoned bus nuts. Now there are many new bus nuts lurking because they don't want to risk getting attacked for asking the wrong question or mentioning doing something that wasn't "right." There are experienced bus nuts that have stopped posting because they got tired of people arguing with them over their advice to others.
So everyone, let's please get back to helping, welcoming, and encouraging everyone. Remember what your mama taught you, "if you haven't got something good to say ..." Let's get back to being the forum that people flock to because they have heard it is "the place" to learn and get expert help.
Well, hightechredneck has made me feel appropriately guilty for expressing my opinion on the compressor return, I really didn't need to do that. I'm also a newbie and need every bit of help I can get.
I don't see a problem. Everyone post their opinion, and the world carries on. Why should it be different on line than in real life? I didn't see any rudeness or nastiness lately. Returning an item after using it is ok for some, not others. Getting a bus home with an auxiliary electric compressor, is something I probably would've done myself, after verifying that it keeps up to the air demand. What I would have not done, is mention it on this forum.
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Quote from: lostagain on July 22, 2014, 07:55:30 PM
What I would have not done, is mention it on this forum.
And that right there is exactly the problem. More and more people are holding back from posting their experiences and problems because they don't want to be ridiculed, insulted, or argued with. Everyone, whether new or highly experienced should feel free to share their experiences and troubleshooting problems. As far as being different than real life, even in the real world, when among friends someone shouldn't need to be on guard with what they ask/tell. And that is what I am talking about - this forum used to be a large group of friends who cared about and supported each other. We really need to get back to that.
Lots of good points here - the main take away ( besides taking the bus off the hiway ;D ) is that we want this to be a safe forum where any/all bus questions can get asked, folks can get help - by those new to buses, and those with decades of experience. This is a FUN hobby. ;D
Kind Regards all & thanks for participating! Phil
This forum has been a huge help to me. When I was a newbie I broke down in Palm Springs, failed key on the compressor. :o I received help from guys I had never met. I hooked up my auxiliary compressor to get me off an exit ramp to a safe place. I had no idea on where to hook it up, got help and safely, slowly moved the bus out of the way. I was sweating bullets for sure.
My point is, help came in abundance because of this forum. We have lost several members due to feeling like what they say will only bring arguments. I know I have been guilty for not posting questions much anymore. I shouldn't have to feel this way, and no newbie should either. Remember, we all have been a newbie at one time or another. Asking a question that might seem ridiculous to some, may in fact provide the appropriate feedback one is looking for.
We should all want to help someone, pay it forward. ;)
Cudos to those of you who hold this forum together!
Quote from: Dreamscape on July 23, 2014, 02:34:13 AM
This forum has been a huge help to me. When I was a newbie I broke down in Palm Springs, failed key on the compressor. :o I received help from guys I had never met. I hooked up my auxiliary compressor to get me off an exit ramp to a safe place. I had no idea on where to hook it up, got help and safely, slowly moved the bus out of the way. I was sweating bullets for sure.
My point is, help came in abundance because of this forum. We have lost several members due to feeling like what they say will only bring arguments. I know I have been guilty for not posting questions much anymore. I shouldn't have to feel this way, and no newbie should either. Remember, we all have been a newbie at one time or another. Asking a question that might seem ridiculous to some, may in fact provide the appropriate feedback one is looking for.
We should all want to help someone, pay it forward. ;)
I agree with Paul. I rarely post on here anymore for the same reason. It seems like a few members are just looking for things to slam people about. The people getting slammed are frequently new members you will not return because of the reception they received. The result is that this forum lost a new member that could have became an asset to the forum. I doubt if there are any of our members that have not done things that were illegal, immoral, or unethical, or maybe all of the above! Please be considerate of others feelings. Don't type anything that you would not say to their face if you were standing near there bus visiting with them.
I know I have done several roadside fixes that worked very well, but I did not post them on here, because to the negative feedback I knew I would get from some members. Because of this, someone who might be able to use that roadside fix may not be aware of it.
Jack
Bus owners come from all walks of life we have friends with 1mil + buses then we have friends with 10 grand buses to me they are all the same as they should be same and it should be applied here we all have a place in life. The people here have helped me a lot with AC electrical over the years now they are gone.
If one cannot help his fellow owners , laugh,smile and joke what is the point of life. I miss Don Smith he was always good for laugh a few here didn't care for his non related bus jokes so he left.Me at my age I don't take life that serious any more I am thankful to get out of bed each morning ::) and enjoy my day.Treat each other with a little respect it will be fine heck I may even try it ::)
I guess I am over my snit. For the OP, your compressor probably just had it's time. You can take it apart and see but a new one will probably be OK. If you are in Ontario, I got a Bendix remanufactured Tuflo 700 from Traction for around $500. If you have the fiber drive ring you might see about upgrading to steel. On my engine the oil feed is from the front of the block just near the fuel filters, just double check the hose is good, same with the coolant, it's just in and out. MCI says to always replace the air output hose with a new compressor, it is a teflon lined steel braided hose on my engine that can be made up at a hydraulic hose place, but I reused mine since it looked to be about perfect. MCI usually has the compressor laid over at around 70 degrees, but the part number on the Bendix plate specifies that so if you ask for your part number you should get the right replacement.
Brian
From what I remember ... the drive is splined and fairly deep so you start the drive gear over the shaft first, then rotate the compressor to line the mounting position on the engine and push the compressor on the rest of the way. Almost self aligning but not quite.
Yep install the drive on the cam gear first I use a white marker from a welding shop and mark the compressor drive and the splines makes it easy to line up standing on your head in the hole on the MCI hopefully he has a truck engine and the compressor is 0 tilt ::)and not the offset spline drive that some MCI's had
Just a note on the above controversy. I personally consider it a good deed to return things to Walmart simply because of the way I feel about the general practices of that company. I do not particularly feel that way about HD. However, considering that I do spend a lot of money a HD, I might not feel bad about letting them help me out sometime. This is still hypothetical, of course.
I think that it is important to inform someone that they are doing something illegal and potentially dangerous, but that can be done in a merely informative way avoiding the sound of judgment. I would also note that, if you are knowingly doing something illegal, you might want to consider whether it is wise to post the details online. It has happened that people have been held accountable for online admissions.
Regarding the compressor-- Parts do fail without anyway way of fixing blame. When replacing it one should make sure that everything else around it is in good shape. That is the easiest time to clean lines out and replace hoses.
A few big power outages ago HD sold out of all of their generators, and brought in extra. After the outage they got a lot of them back, and you could buy them on sale as returned items. It's their policy, no one makes them take anything back. I don't do it myself (buy something, use it and return it) but I don't have a thing about it. I was talking to one HD employee about it one time, he said he's had people return the old thing they were replacing in the new box and ask for a refund. I was buying a garbage disposal at the time, so I said can we open this and check it out? He said sure, got a knife and we opened the box - it turned out to be missing all the hardware, and he said it had been a return... I got it at a discount because I didn't need the hardware, I was making a black-water macerator pump out of it. A cashier at a Walmart told me once they caught a guy who had bought a TV, paid for it, took it out of the store then returned it about 10 minutes later and got his money back but had the receipt so he went and got another TV and walked out with it. They watched him do this, and caught him in the parking lot...
Brian
Compressors wear out it is nothing to see one running 250,000 + miles IF the maintenance if followed, in a bus most are installed and forgot about,seized pistons are rare in a compressor ,idling will kill it on a 2 stroke with the low oil pressure at idle we were told at the Bendix school 15 psi oil pressure is the minimum and 2.5 GPM is the minimum water flow for Bendix compressors
This sight has been a huge help to me also,and I appreciate all the feed back and help I have gotten. That being said, I guess everyone does whats best for themselves. :'(
Here's a guy that needs to be picked on some........
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/1610752_791722597526473_1443892527262593019_n.jpg)
I remember a few years back had air compressor failure 60 klms out of Yellowknife ,,, called the local heavy hauler with a drop down trailer to haul it on off the highway because there wasn't a compressor available locally he wanted 2500.00 to bring it in .
I went back to my shop grabed a portable aircompresser and a generator Right or wrong it saved us a pile of cash
LOL
Air Compressors, Oil and Anti-freeze. These topics always bring emotion on this board. I remember the last time this Portable Air Compressor thread came up some people actually quit the board but not really. ??? ;D :D ??? ;D
John
Would assume I am not alone in pushing a MCI with a pickup with a gasoline air compressor in the bed for both air ride, service brakes & air throttle in the pickup when the DDC failed within retrieve without a landall trailer. Some can pull that off without any issues, while some might create mass panic within a 20 mile radius.
Dave M
Lin WalMart is a great company, look at what they pay in comparison to other companies AND banks, do your homework with an open mind. Many of us have parked in their lots when we needed to.
Nineforever sounds like good common sense, a rare commodity lately.
John you win the door prize he probably had to much ash content in the engine oil ;D I lost your phone # John I was going to stop for awhile when we came through Wells last month
Just put the new compesser in..this one fits better in bay and has more horsepower...would have took the old one back to Tractor Supply but after four years cant find the receipt...lol
You are on a roll today Matt ::) ::) ::)
Nothing wrong with expressing opinions just so long as they aren't nasty.
Half the posts here are opinions anyway:)
I think the main problem is he seemed so proud of using the comp and then returning it. Not much there to be proud of.
;D One more opinion shouldn't hurt the guy will probably buy his next from HD he is planning on installing
Quote from: Jriddle on July 24, 2014, 12:39:33 AM
LOL
Air Compressors, Oil and Anti-freeze. These topics always bring emotion on this board. I remember the last time this Portable Air Compressor thread came up some people actually quit the board but not really. ??? ;D :D ??? ;D
John
Actually I think Craig aka "Gumpy" was the last one to post doing it! (or last I remember anyway!)
And yes I did quit the board for about a month (hence the name change) for all the bashing I took for using an alternate compressor to bring the bus home so I could order receive and install in my shop!
;D BK ;D
Just so you know Bryce B_K is not a name, DuH, ;D
Quote from: luvrbus on July 24, 2014, 07:27:31 AM
John you win the door prize he probably had to much ash content in the engine oil ;D I lost your phone # John I was going to stop for awhile when we came through Wells last month
Clifford
We are in a transition in our life right now. I have taken a two year job in the Dominican Republic and now live there most of the year. We rented a place by the beach on the North Coast in Cabarete DR. We still have the house in Wells for now. We have it rented on a lease purchase agreement. We purchased a fixer upper in Townsend MT and have been kind of heading there during my time off. The bus, airplane and tools are in Montana and the rest is in SLC in storage. I don't have a phone number in the US right now.
John
John,are you in Pueblo Viejo running the big gold mine for Barrick ?
Quote from: luvrbus on July 24, 2014, 08:01:23 PM
John,are you in Pueblo Viejo running the big gold mine for Barrick ?
That is where I am. I can't say I'm running the joint but am working to train the locals so they can someday. I'm working in the process plant as a supervisor.
John
If you buy an air compressor, insist on having the store run it before hand. Some are just painfully loud. Good Luck, TomC
It seems like the Belt drive compressors are a lot quieter than the oiless and direct drives. or is there even better ones than those?
Dave5Cs
The medical compressors like the Prevost converters use are the quietest by far but for 1500 bucks + they should be ;D