Ok so this is the second time trying to post this. The first time the whole post just disappeared >:( So here I go again. While running new plumbing for my radiator sprayers , I noticed my combined black and grey tank which is made out of metal is rusted through on the top, and starting to rust in a even line all across the front (leaks a small amount in front).
My tank measures 28" wide, 15 inches in height, and 65" from front to back. I don't have any more room to add wider or front to back, but might be able to go 5" higher, but not sure because of the grey and black piping that comes into the tank. I am thinking on switching from 1 tank to a separate grey and black tank. My existing tank hold 118 gallons. How would you recommend splitting this up size wise? I have looked at tanks at the rv surplus places online, but have yet to find a tank this size. If I use a grey and black tank setup do these tanks come with the dump valve and plumbing openings already installed? Can you all post some pictures of your setup, so I can get this mind going in the right direction? Any ideas of how to put 2 tanks where I have 1? Would side by side or on top of eachother be better?
I forgot to ask if anyone else has had this problem with metal tanks and if so did any of you repair these? Can these be patched with welding or can I repair the spots with waterproof metal putty?
IIRC this outfit built my tanks....and spin welded more pipe bosses than i could use for free...plus free shipping.
see if they have dimensions you can use:
https://www.ardemco.com/content/TANK_CATALOG.pdf (https://www.ardemco.com/content/TANK_CATALOG.pdf)
NOTE: HEIGHT CAN BE WIDTH..THATS WHAT I DID :o
IF THEY SAY THE TANK IS 33 TALL AND 32 LONG X 12 HIGH...12 CAN BE THE WIDTH SET THE TANK ON EDGE
...SEE HERE: https://www.ardemco.com/content/ardemco_fax.pdf (https://www.ardemco.com/content/ardemco_fax.pdf)
AND ORDER HERE:
http://www.ardemco.com/ (http://www.ardemco.com/)
YOU COULD USE TWO TANKS MODEL 43W IF I READ YOUR SPACE AVAILABLE CORRECTLY...taller tanks drain better, imo.that would give two 58 gallon tanks and you could divert grey to black, which you should want any way.
THIS WILL ALSO FREE UP about 20x28 inches i think... ???
do these tanks come with the dump valve no
and plumbing openings already installed? no ;D
BUT THEY WILL PUT FEMALE PIPE BOSSES ANYWHERE/ANY SIZE YOU WANT
Can you all post some pictures of your setup,,no ;D
Any ideas of how to put 2 tanks where I have 1 yes
Would side by side or on top of each other be better?
Agree Scott with Eagle. that tank company is really good. You just give them the dementions of which tank you want and where you want them to put the drain pipes and sizes you will be using and they will put in your spin- weld fittings which they spin with a big drill and it esentially melts the poly to it so it won't leak. As if it is then one unit. When you get it if you gave them the correct measurements where you wanted your drains, vent pipe, etc. to go, you just hook them up and glue them in or thread them on whatever type you are going to use.
And no they don't put on the dump valves but those are pretty cheap at any RV supply and just use ABS pipe to each one.
Dave
all of the spin welds are female pipe thread up to 4" i had 3/4 and 1 inch drain/feeds and vents on drinking water and 1 1/2" fill.
on the grey i have 2 inch fills and drains and 3/4 vents
black is 4 inch fill and 3" drain and 1 1/2" vent iirc.
70 gallon black
60 gallon grey
2- 60 gallon drinking. in the bay here (i have remodeled) there is the original black (where the plywood covered slot is behind the AC), but now there is a fresh water between it and the back of the AC, the same dimension (basicly) as the black, and then at a right angle to it is the second fresh along the right side of the bay wall.my grey is in the rear bay with the hot water heater.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1207.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb468%2Fdphalaska%2FImage022-1.jpg%7Eoriginal&hash=07b1c9e021a3541c97b6e62e458ba45a9686c6aa)
Hi Scott, years ago people used to dump their grey water tank, on the move, to save weight and get better mileage. That's illegal now in most places, alltho many still do it. My thoughts tend to the thinking, that the weight of the sink and shower water, carries the waste material out with more force and you end up with a cleaner dump, so to speak! And I dump my black/grey tank every time I leave a park and get on the highway, saving the weight also, in the future if I get new tanks they will be more vertical stacked like books on a shelf, lvmci...
Any reputable roto-molding company can make you tanks in polyethylene - I used Ronco because they're close by and I could pick up my four tanks myself and save trucking costs. Here's what Ronco offers - other companies may offer a similar range: http://www.ronco-plastics.com/newRonco/index.php (http://www.ronco-plastics.com/newRonco/index.php) If they're making your tanks to order, ask them to make them 3/8" thick instead of the usual 1/4" or 5/16", then they'll bow out less when full. The fittings should be included in the tank's price, and if spin-welded they'll be completely secure and reliable. If you have a choice you should choose the thickest heaviest-duty threaded fittings because they stretch least when threading Valterra flanges and nylon MPT connections into them - Ronco used these fittings in all my tanks: http://www.bunnweb.org/spinwelding.com/index2.htm (http://www.bunnweb.org/spinwelding.com/index2.htm) (click on Fittings). In my two waste tanks I have eleven spin-welded fittings!
John
Who makes tanks and has a good reputation in the southeast? We're in western North Carolina, and I'd prefer not to pay for cross country shipping.
Also, does anyone know of a southeastern source of polyester plastic in 4x8 sheets? I'm considering building my own tanks with a heat welding gun. That would make maximum use of a nonstandard space. The only source I've found is in Michigan, and, again, shipping is an enormous factor.
My research convinces me that metal tanks — even stainless steel — will never stand up to black water. They always fail at the welds. Urine is a powerful corrosive.
Jim
the link provided has free shipping. my tanks are 10 years in place, no problems at all.
So if Mexican food lol
Quote from: eagle19952 on July 16, 2014, 06:34:00 AM
the link provided has free shipping.
To which link are you referring, and what kind of black tank do you use?
Thanks,
Jim
Quote from: Lostranger on July 16, 2014, 08:09:52 AM
To which link are you referring, and what kind of black tank do you use?
Thanks,
Jim
the ones in my post above:
http://www.ardemco.com/ (http://www.ardemco.com/)
https://www.ardemco.com/content/ardemco_fax.pdf (https://www.ardemco.com/content/ardemco_fax.pdf)
https://www.ardemco.com/content/TANK_CATALOG.pdf (https://www.ardemco.com/content/TANK_CATALOG.pdf)
If you are considering two tanks, I would make the grey tank about three times the size of the black tank. We have never filled a black tank before filling the grey tank. It also didn't make any sense to have the holding tanks much larger than the fresh tank. You will always be filling and dumping at the same time.
Don and Cary
I had my gray/black water tanks made the same size (well they are standard size) because they fit in the space. I added a pipe to let the gray flow into the black when full.
Quote from: Cary and Don on July 16, 2014, 08:55:57 AM
If you are considering two tanks, I would make the grey tank about three times the size of the black tank. We have never filled a black tank before filling the grey tank. It also didn't make any sense to have the holding tanks much larger than the fresh tank. You will always be filling and dumping at the same time.
I replaced my combined black/grey tank last year and made it 10% bigger than the freshwater tank this time. All of the human waste and TP seem to make the waste tank fill faster than the fresh water tank empties.
Ardemco doesn't actually make the tanks. Ronco makes most of their tanks. In my bus I have a 130gal fresh, 85gal gray, 45gal black. In my truck I'm using 2-98gal fresh, 115gal gray, 69gal black-all made by Ronco. You can order directly from them and they gave me 50% off the listed price since I picked the tanks up directly from their Tustin, Ca location. Highly recommend Ronco-used them also on my big rig never having any problems in over 800,000mi of driving with the drain tanks mounted underneath between the drive shaft and the bottom fuel tank supports. Good Luck, TomC
http://www.kracor.com/support/holdingtanks.pdf (http://www.kracor.com/support/holdingtanks.pdf)
Kracor in Wisconsin may have what you need also.
Quote from: TomC on July 16, 2014, 02:56:18 PM
Ronco makes most of their tanks.... They gave me 50% off the listed price since I picked the tanks up directly from their Tustin, Ca location.
I've been checking their prices. They may ADVERTISE free shipping, but it's just built into the price of the tanks. Not hard to give a 50% discount when you've inflated the price in advance.
when i bought my tanks they discounted over the phone...
My tanks are 65 fresh with on demand pump,65 grey with drip valve,and 65 black.both grey and black are plumbed (together) each having a gate release into one tee that exits the floor of the bay to the sewer hose. having good luck with the system. Most parts are from tractor supply,and a place local (in town) that builds concession trailers and makes there own tanks... George
Quote from: georgemci102a2 on July 16, 2014, 07:25:57 PM
My tanks are 65 fresh with on demand pump,65 grey with drip valve,and 65 black.both grey and black are plumbed (together) each having a gate release into one tee that exits the floor of the bay to the sewer hose. having good luck with the system. Most parts are from tractor supply,and a place local (in town) that builds concession trailers and makes there own tanks... George
where is "in town" though ?
His profile says he lives in Grovetown Ga.
Great info tanks a lot! lol
Quote from: eagle19952 on July 16, 2014, 04:01:43 PM
http://www.kracor.com/support/holdingtanks.pdf (http://www.kracor.com/support/holdingtanks.pdf)
Kracor in Wisconsin may have what you need also.
Kracor wanted 1,275.00 for my tank. I found a 100 gallon tank with 2 3" holes installed for 100.00 and 7.00 for each additional hole, but they only have 1 size in the 100 gallon 48"x48" x 10.5
Quote from: Lee Bradley on July 16, 2014, 10:05:42 AM
I had my gray/black water tanks made the same size (well they are standard size) because they fit in the space. I added a pipe to let the gray flow into the black when full.
Can you post a picture so I can see exactly how you added the pipe and where?
There are times when a combined tank is better. For example, we are currently in a space that has no sewage connection. We can use a hose to let the gray water out into a stand of pine trees leaving the whole 100 gallon tank for black.
I am not saying that this configuration is better overall, but rather each system can have its positives.
Except for the fact of let grey water out on the ground out of a tank that has had black water in it is not the healthiest of actions. unless there is lots of sunlight and heat to kill bacteria. Just sayin...........
Dave
i think he is diverting the gray....dumping pre tank...easy to do...
Yes Dave, that would be horrible. Thanks for being so diplomatic, but as Eagle says, we use a gray water bypass. Essentially, it is just a smaller dump style gate valve that stops the gray water from getting to the tank, and a ball valve that opens the drain pathway.
I think that this practice is not uncommon and okay if done within reason. If you can let the water drain into plants or such, I think it is okay. I would not think it is really acceptable on a paved surface like a truck stop or walmart.
Hi Lin,
What ever you think is OK is your hide on the line.
If you think it is just fine to dump the gray water ... do it in front of a cop sometime.
Let me know when you're doing it , I'd like to see the out come.
Frank
Frank what is wrong with watering plants with gray water, in some communities they recommend it highly due to the drought, in Texas I understand that some cities are now recycling their wastewater for drinking. Just saying
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i guess that means that washing your coach or car with soap and water is not very good either....
no dog washing...
there are lots of places that allow grey water hoses.
i don't think the guy is dumping 100 gallons of grey on the constables shoes.
fyi in part,
Texas Grey Water Information
In Texas, a permit isn't required to use a grey water system when the flow is less than 400 gallons per day.
Regulatory Overview:
Texas Health & Safety Code - Section 341.039. Graywater Standards
§ 341.039. GRAYWATER STANDARDS.
(a) The commission by rule shall adopt and implement minimum standards for the use and reuse of graywater for:
(1) irrigation and other agricultural purposes;
(2) domestic use, to the extent consistent with Subsection (c);
(3) commercial purposes; and
(4) industrial purposes.
(b) The standards adopted by the commission under Subsection (a) must assure that the use of graywater is not a nuisance and does not damage the quality of surface water and groundwater in this state.
(c) The commission may not require a permit for the domestic use of less than 400 gallons of graywater each day if the graywater:
(1) originates from a private residence;
(2) is used by the occupants of that residence for gardening, composting, or landscaping at the residence;
(3) is collected using a system that overflows into a sewage collection or on-site wastewater treatment and disposal system;
(4) is stored in tanks that:
(A) are clearly labeled as nonpotable water;
(B) restrict access, especially to children; and
(C) eliminate habitat for mosquitoes and other vectors;
(5) uses piping clearly identified as a nonpotable water conduit, including identification through the use of purple pipe, purple tape, or similar markings;
(6) is generated without the formation of ponds or pools of graywater;
(7) does not create runoff across the property lines or onto any paved surface; and
(8) is distributed by a surface or subsurface system that does not spray into the air.
(d) Each builder is encouraged to:
(1) install plumbing in new housing in a manner that provides the capacity to collect graywater from all allowable sources; and
(2) design and install a subsurface graywater system around the foundation of new housing in a way that minimizes foundation movement or cracking.
(e) In this section, "graywater" means wastewater from clothes-washing machines, showers, bathtubs, hand-washing lavatories, and sinks that are not used for disposal of hazardous or toxic ingredients. The term does not include wastewater:
(1) that has come in contact with toilet waste;
(2) from the washing of material, including diapers, soiled with human excreta; or
(3) from sinks used for food preparation or disposal.
further TX regulation...in parks regs...
(i) Metal detector. It is an offense for any person to operate or use a metal detector, except as authorized by permit. :-\
Areas like Palm Springs, Ca use gray water for landscaping. Those beautiful golf courses are irrigated from a gray water system. In our case, we are not talking about dumping a tank; it is usually just a couple of cups at a time from hand washing up to several gallons for a shower. If those pine trees could talk, they'd say, "Thanks". They are very polite, you know.
Again, I reiterate, there are situations when I consider it appropriate and situation when it is not. It only takes a little common sense and consideration for one's neighbors.
Quote from: eagle19952 on July 20, 2014, 05:34:57 PM
(e) In this section, "graywater" means wastewater from clothes-washing machines, showers, bathtubs, hand-washing lavatories, and sinks that are not used for disposal of hazardous or toxic ingredients. The term does not include wastewater:
(3) from sinks used for food preparation or disposal.
Interesting that kitchen sinks are a no-no. I'm guessing that most bus conversions plumb everything (including the kitchen sink, so to speak) to the gray tank, with only the loo going to the poo tank. Those conversions would not be allowed in TX to use gray water as specified. I've heard that food waste can make buses' gray water stink worse than their black water.
It's also noteworthy that each day one could legally divert 400 gallons of gray water. Wow! How much gray water does a typical bus conversion produce in one day?
John
John I noticed that also. so if your Kitchen sink is part of your gray-water plumbing you would be in Violation.
Sorry Lin and Eagle didn't mean to start a war. LOL Thanks for the info.
I realize now what you were saying, before it went into the tank like Eagle was saying. I know when we lived in Colorado springs they water all the Golf courses up there as well as the college lawns with Gray-water or as all the little signs in the grass say,"Non Potable Water".
Well that was fun!... ;D :o
Dave
Guys that isn't "grey" water, it is the discharge from a wastewater treatment plant, what do you think keeps the golf courses green in most hot/dry states? Soon it will all be recycled into the drinking water treatment plants, already is being done in some areas.
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