In response to another post I was just looking at Van Hool's website to see if they still build a short coach (they don't). Whilst I was there I noticed one of the coaches in their second-hand section is fitted with the 'box' device shown below. I have often seen buses on the road fitted with these (they are principally for carrying skis I believe), and always wondered how they could be legal. Given that the base vehicle is already built to the maximum permisable length, how can a fixed box like this not make the vehicle oversize?
Jeremy
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vanhool.be%2Fimages%2Fgroot%2F105573_2.JPG&hash=8499b33b8af3714960ba102edcd8333ce1241c05)
Jeremy,
Unless I am mistaken, I think the 824 you posted is in Belgum and you found it on Van Hool's global site ... not ABC's US site.
http://www.vanhool.be/aanboddetail.asp?ID=105573&PriceCategoryID=20
I am "fairly" sure 45-feet max (single vehicle) is the limit, although I am not sure that's not a Federal DOT but rather set by state.
You've seen one of these cargo units on a 45-footer in the US? I could see it on a 40-footer in the US, but not a 45. Never personally seen one of these in the US ... let alone seen one.
Jerry H.
Ahh, and re: Calif. 45-footers. http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/trucks/bus-mh/fs-45-buses.htm
Quote from: Jeremy on December 16, 2006, 02:04:51 AM
I have often seen buses on the road fitted with these (they are principally for carrying skis I believe),
Jeremy
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vanhool.be%2Fimages%2Fgroot%2F105573_2.JPG&hash=8499b33b8af3714960ba102edcd8333ce1241c05)
Looks like a porta-pot ;D
This is just conjecture, but...
I don't think the drom is figured into the length of the vehicle. Something like putting 10' boards into your 8 ' pickup bed. 2' are hanging over and don't need to be flagged. If the over hang is more than 3' (in some states, 4' in others), then a flag, reflector or lights must be displayed from the rear.
When I was pulling bedbug, (Household mover), we commonly added a drom, (dromedary container) to the back of a 53' trailer with no problem.
Again this is all conjecture because I'm too lazy right now to reach up and get the DOT regs from up above my head.
Dallas
Quote from: JerryH on December 16, 2006, 05:54:54 AM
Jeremy,
Unless I am mistaken, I think the 824 you posted is in Belgum and you found it on Van Hool's global site ... not ABC's US site.
http://www.vanhool.be/aanboddetail.asp?ID=105573&PriceCategoryID=20
I am "fairly" sure 45-feet max (single vehicle) is the limit, although I am not sure that's not a Federal DOT but rather set by state.
You've seen one of these cargo units on a 45-footer in the US? I could see it on a 40-footer in the US, but not a 45. Never personally seen one of these in the US ... let alone seen one.
Jerry H.
Ahh, and re: Calif. 45-footers. http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/trucks/bus-mh/fs-45-buses.htm
Hi
Yes, sorry, I should have said - I'm talking about having seen buses like that in Europe (Britain), not the USA. The vehicle pictured is in Europe too. I don't know the details but all the basic Euro regs (length, width etc) seem to be very similar to the USA's. I know you have some variations from state to state over there, and we do too - I have recently found that my planned trip to Mallorca next June towing a 6m boat behind my 8m bus cannot now happen because there I would be too long to drive on the island's roads - I could get as far as southern Spain legally, but I wouldn't be allowed on the ferry across to Mallorca.
You are probably right in that the ski box is regarded as a 'load' rather than part of the vehicle itself - put clearly it is a permanent fixture, so it make you wonder what else you could do...
Jeremy
Also if the bus is used for a particular ski lodge/run it is possible to get local permits for the extra length!(if necessary!) BK ;D
Looks like a porto potty on the back of the bus.
David
Or maybe a Mother In Law room...... ;D ;D ;D
Paul
Dreamscape
Quote from: JerryH on December 16, 2006, 05:54:54 AM
... I am "fairly" sure 45-feet max (single vehicle) is the limit, although I am not sure that's not a Federal DOT but rather set by state. ...
It is by state. This chart (http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm) includes a lot of useful information about vehicle and towing limits in the U.S. and Canada. The eigth column lists maximum motorhome lengths (the next column gives max 2 piece limit) for each state or province.
That chart is one of the most useful items I have come across. It contains a wide range of information pertinent to interstate/interprovince driving by state and province.
Quote from: HighTechRedneck on December 16, 2006, 09:45:41 PM
Quote from: JerryH on December 16, 2006, 05:54:54 AM
... I am "fairly" sure 45-feet max (single vehicle) is the limit, although I am not sure that's not a Federal DOT but rather set by state. ...
That chart is one of the most useful items I have come across. It contains a wide range of information pertinent to interstate/interprovince driving by state and province.
Thanks for the info. I was scratching my head reading that, as it didn't provide a column for single vehicle maximum length ... it shows that 40-foot is the maximum trailer length for NJ. The correct length is 53-foot. I keep looking though.
Jerry H.
Quote from: JerryH on December 17, 2006, 07:16:36 AM
Quote from: HighTechRedneck on December 16, 2006, 09:45:41 PM
Quote from: JerryH on December 16, 2006, 05:54:54 AM
... I am "fairly" sure 45-feet max (single vehicle) is the limit, although I am not sure that's not a Federal DOT but rather set by state. ...
That chart is one of the most useful items I have come across. It contains a wide range of information pertinent to interstate/interprovince driving by state and province.
Thanks for the info. I was scratching my head reading that, as it didn't provide a column for single vehicle maximum length ... it shows that 40-foot is the maximum trailer length for NJ. The correct length is 53-foot. I keep looking though.
One would assume that chart is for recreational trailers since Towing World specializes in RVs. Is the 53' limit for your state for semi trailers or recreational trailers?
Is there any state where a 53' semi trailer is not allowed?
As always, the best way to be sure you are getting the right answers is to look up your state statutes directly. The people making these charts can make mistakes or not update them fast enough as laws change.
Brian Elfert
Brian Elfert
you can find almost all of the info that you need in a federal motor carriers road atlas. as to the question about 53' trailers, most of the new england states, all 53' trailers must have a permit if traveled more than a mile off of the interstates. they dont push the law that often but sometimes they do their revenue drives and then they nail the truckers hard!!! as long as they are on designated routes you are ok. my unit is 87 1/2' long. the over all length law has been removed in most us states!!!
sivrtnge2
What kind of rig do you have that is 97 1/2 feet long. I assume it must be a three trailer simi. My MCI 7 with a 24 foot box trailer and a tounge length of 3 feet makes me 67 feet long, I know you are only supposed to be 65 feet, but I have not had any trouble. HP just goes by and looks at the hitch with the safety chains.
ED
MCI 7
I HAVE A W900L WITH A 210 INCH SLEEPER AND I PULL A 53' TRAILER MY TRUCK IS RIGHT AT 400" WHEELBASE :o!!!
I GOOFED I NEED TO PROOF READ THESE THINGS BEFORE I SUBMIT THEM. IM 87 1/2' LONG!!!
Sivrtnge2- I know this, that you're not doing bed bugging (house hold moving) since you couldn't get into a residential area nor a condo complex with that setup. I pulled a 48ft'r with a 235" cabover with a 8ft converted drom with all amenities, and that was sometimes to long for condo complexes. Do you pull for Southern Pride? Since they transport jet engines, a airport is about the only place you could maneurver a 400" wheelbase. Good Luck, TomC
Here's a couple of references:
The first is for RVs.
http://www.wecamp2.com/size.html
Note the below is for COMMERCIAL vehicles. I suppose you could argue that a bus conversion is Grandfathered.
http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/publications/size_regs_final_rpt/index.htm#bus
We already know about the reliability of RV's and their support industries....
That's why we have converted buses.
Then why would we look to them for something as legal, technical and variable across the 60 odd jurisdictions of the US and Canada as the size and weight limits, and all their exceptions, permits and legal mumbo jumbo? Keeping track of this is a full time job in a fleet setting.
These RV sources are the same folks who give you delaminating skins, recommend you buy them, recommend repair shops to fix 'em and count on you dying before you figure out you've been misinformed or ripped off.
Use the fleet sources for the size info, where screwing up on compliance regularly costs money.
More accurate and detailed.
Statutes on size usually will apply to all "vehicles", regardless of the commercial/personal issue.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Bus warrior,
I did not intend to ruffle your feathers.
I only attempted to provide a couple of references to the questions I thought I saw farther down in the thread.
Info posted on these boards is posted for the convenience of all.
Some want to argue their "beliefs" in spite of the written references.
No feathers ruffled!!!
The lack of good effort on the part of the RV related folks is the thing that bugs me.
Too many folks rely on their poor research and profit driven poor workmanship.
Very sorry if my post had a tone in your direction!
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Hey Tom,
Sorry that it took me so long to get back to you. I'm still learning this board. I have a contract with the us govt. We move "high profile stuff".
...all I can say!!!
Quote from: buswarrior on December 23, 2006, 03:28:14 PM
We already know about the reliability of RV's and their support industries....
That's why we have converted buses.
[snip...]
Use the fleet sources for the size info, where screwing up on compliance regularly costs money.
More accurate and detailed.
Statutes on size usually will apply to all "vehicles", regardless of the commercial/personal issue.
...
No disrespect meant, but this is decidedly untrue. Almost every state regulates non-commercial vehicles differently than commercial ones. So the advice to follow fleet guidelines is likely to cause trouble.
For example, while fleet operators (meaning commercial plated vehicles with appropriately-rated CDL drivers) can legally operate 48' and 53' semi-trailers on the STAA route network, very, very few states allow a non-commercial trailer of that length. Many states restrict non-commercial trailers or semitrailers to 40', irrespective of whether they are operated on STAA routes or not.
You can certainly circumvent this restriction by getting commercial plates and a class A CDL, but then you are still restricted in many states to the STAA network and "terminals or services" within a mile thereof. Plus, I think you will find commercial registration to be prohibitively expensive: you will need plates for every state you travel through, or an "apportioned" plate to cover them, pay fees by weight, stop at all scales, and buy your fuel in every state by percentage (or pay each state it's fair share of taxes on whatever fuel you do buy). Plus you will need to keep a logbook and follow the hours-of-service regulations regarding driving time, rest periods, etc..
As non-commercial operators, we enjoy many luxuries unavailable to the commercial operator, including exemption from scales in most states, buying our fuel wherever we like, and even traveling over routes forbidden to commercial vehicles (several freeways in California come immediately to mind, along with the Garden State Parkway in NJ and various other toll roads, bridges, and tunnels throughout the US). In most states we don't even need a special license, even though our coaches are often air-brake equipped and over 26,000 gross. But we are also NOT entitled to the special vehicle length permissivity that applies to commercial "combination vehicles" (tractor-semitrailers) on federal routes.
The advice in, for example, the "Motor Carrier's Road Atlas" is aimed at commercial drivers. Don't take it as gospel, because some of it does not apply to us. If your coach is registered as a motorhome or "house car," then the recreational vehicle laws and limits apply to you, and, yes, the various charts published by the RV industry and magazines (e.g. Family Motor Coaching) are usually correct. The best information, though, is always in the actual motor vehicle codes of the states in which you are operating.
-Sean
aka "Captain Code"
I have a chart that tells you the maximum allowable length for every state. pretty cool information. Most states specify the max length of the towing & towed vehicle, and the max allowed overall. I will have to dig it out of the archives. I packed it for our move to Nashville.
Rich