Hi all,
I must admit that I've never been to an RV park or used a dump station.
As I'm doing a conversion, some things I will have to install around the inherent design of the rig. Other things I will have a choice, or possibly be able to reroute.
So tell me about the optimum placement of dump outlets, electric panels, tv...etc.
If you had your way, where would they be installed and why? Are most parks and roadside hookups similar? Should I be planning to reach service towards the front of the rig...the middle?
My black tank will need to go in the rear center (which is strangely appropriate...lol).
Advice before I start cutting holes?
Thanks
Sean
Sewer dumps are typically on the left side in front of the rear tires. Having the water fill and electrical hook up there will be convenient since most RV parks are setup with power pole, water and sewer together.
On my bus, I also have a gray water drain to the street on the right side so I can discretely drain the gray water into a street drain a park over. Good luck, TomC
Hi Sean, this is some pretty basic stuff, you need to read up on some of the books written about this part of conversions, Id check an RV sales lot and a RV park, there are a small amout of parks that have dual sided dump/fresh water/electric/tv/phone/, all have it on the drivers side, some very few have it only on passenger side, I havent run across one in many years, lvmci...
Quote from: TomC on June 16, 2014, 10:03:41 PM
Sewer dumps are typically on the left side in front of the rear tires. Having the water fill and electrical hook up there will be convenient since most RV parks are setup with power pole, water and sewer together.
On my bus, I also have a gray water drain to the street on the right side so I can discretely drain the gray water into a street drain a park over. Good luck, TomC
Ok great!
What about propane fill? My tank has to go on the right (passenger). Would a remote fill on the left be worth the extra effort and expense?
p.s. I know this is basic stuff. I'm specifically trying to get the bus owners suggestions since we're about the same length. "well some parks have the pole and dump towards the front of the space, so it's a stretch" kind thing. A lot a net vid's and pages on these subjects are from class B and C RV's, and it's hard to gauge never having been to one. Even if I went to a few, I wouldn't know if there were a standard...etc.
All your help is very much appreciated!
Hi Audio, almost all hookups are so that when you back in to the spot your hookups are near the left rear. MOST sewer hookups are a bit forward from the electric and water on the same side. Welcome to the madness. Paul
NEC section 551 is very specific about the pedestal location at an RV park and supply cord length. The cord entrance location is not specified. The best location is on the drivers side near the rear 1/3rd of the RV.
Quote551.77 Recreational Vehicle Site Supply Equipment.
(A) Location. Where provided on back-in sites, the recreational
vehicle site electrical supply equipment shall be located
on the left (road) side of the parked vehicle, on a line
that is 1.5 m to 2.1 m (5 ft to 7 ft) from the left edge
(driver's side of the parked RV) of the stand and shall be
located at any point on this line from the rear of the stand to
4.5 m (15 ft) forward of the rear of the stand.
For pull-through sites, the electrical supply equipment
shall be permitted to be located at any point along the line that
is 1.5 m to 2.1 m (5 ft to 7 ft) from the left edge (driver's side
of the parked RV) from 4.9 m (16 ft) forward of the rear of the
stand to the center point between the two roads that gives
access to and egress from the pull-through sites.
The left edge (driver's side of the parked RV) of the
stand shall be marked.
Quote551.46 Means for Connecting to Power Supply.
(B) Cord. The cord exposed usable length shall be measured
from the point of entrance to the recreational vehicle or the
face of the flanged surface inlet (motor-base attachment plug)
to the face of the attachment plug at the supply end.
The cord exposed usable length, measured to the point of
entry on the vehicle exterior, shall be a minimum of 7.5 m
(25 ft) where the point of entrance is at the side of the vehicle
or shall be a minimum 9.0 m (30 ft) where the point of entrance
is at the rear of the vehicle.
Where the cord entrance into the vehicle is more than
900 mm (3 ft) above the ground, the minimum cord lengths
above shall be increased by the vertical distance of the cord
entrance heights above 900 mm (3 ft).
Section 551 is worth reading as there few nuances unique to RV wiring. I will be the first to admit, reading code makes my eyes glaze over after a while :-[
Sean -
Put your sewer, water and electrical hookup on the left (drivers) side in front of the rear wheel. Make sure your electrical isn't below your fresh water, think about leaky hoses and where the water drips will go. Have the sewer connection so the hose connects to the outside of the bus (sewer pipe should go through the floor or wall ...think leaks here and it will leak at some point).
Its easier to have all your connections in one bay/area so that when you hook up you don't need to open all 3 bays on the bus. Unfortunately when I did my hookups I put the fresh water level in the 2nd bay off the fresh tank, the on/off valve for the city water in the 3rd bay with the water pump and filters and main plumbing and all my connections and manifold in the 4th bay so currently I need to open 3 bays to fill fresh water...its kind of a pain. Working on a fix for that.
Take the advice of looking at alot of pro rigs and rvs before you start. We got a lot of great ideas from them. And you'll see that alot of the stuff is replicated from RV to RV for good reason.
-Sean
Fulltiming somewhere in the USA
1984 Eagle 10S
www.herdofturtles.org (http://www.herdofturtles.org)
Propane: I would have portable cylinders rather than a fixed tank, so you can take them to get refilled with your towed, rather than having to break camp to move the bus to go to a propane station.
JC
Agree with JC on Propane. I just pulled our 23 gallon tank out and put in 3 20 lb cylinders on slides. I saved a ton of space and will be able to pull one tank out and fill/exchange if needed with out moving the bus to go get it.
Drain for Black tank would be nice coming out the bottom as long as it is a removable fitting so as not to break it off when traveling.
Electric is also nice to have on the outside of the coach with a metal cover that screws on. This way after hooking up you can close and lock all bays and it keeps out the rodents also. ;D
Dave5Cs
Many of us had the same question when we started. Like you, I had never owned a camper or been to an RV park when I bought my bus.
I didn't have a clue about much of this stuff, either, but the people on this board were very helpful. I did a lot of reading, too.
Your questions have pretty much been covered in the previous responses, but here's my opinion. Keep in mind, it's my opinion. You have
to decide what works best for you and your needs:
Sewer: Typically on the left, just in front of the rear wheels. I installed my dump through the bay floor, just inside the door, so I never have
an opportunity to leak sewage into the bay. Consider a second dump valve on the right side. Think about the problem
you would face should the single dump valve on the left fail with a full tank. I put one on each side. I admit that I've only used the one on the right
side once, and it was for convenience, not necessity, but I'm glad it's there should the need arise. They're not very expensive.
Electrical: Left side, above the rear wheels is a great location but requires some routing inside the coach. Use a Marinco shore power inlet for a
clean and very convenient solution. Many put a hole in the bottom of their bay and run the line up through that. Works well for them. Some even
just leave the bay door cracked. Works for them, wouldn't for me. Install 50 amp service. Doesn't mean you have to have 50 amp service available,
but it's great when you have it and can make use of it. Build a 50 amp and a 30 amp shore cable such that they can be connected together to reach
distant connections. Email me and I'll go into more detail if you like.
Fresh water: Left side, next to the electrical above the rear wheels, but not too close. Again, use a hose connection inlet mounted in the side of the bus
for a clean, convenient connection. Also, as with electrical, can be run up through a hole in the bay floor, or simply through the door. Depends on your
style and needs. Two hoses, designated for fresh water only. One is standard hose, one is flat and rolls up on a spool. Very convenient when needed.
Keep a separate hose for washing the dump line that is NEVER used for fresh water.
Propane: Use 2 portable tanks, up to 40 lbs each. This is by far the most convenient method for refilling. More and more, it's becoming harder to find
someplace you can get your bus in close enough, or even someone who can or will fill permanently mounted tanks. With portables, you can remove
one while continuing to use the other, take it to the propane dealer in the toad and get it filled. If you use 20 lb tanks, you can exchange them at
the local convenience store, big box store, many gas stations, etc, though you will pay a lot more because they no longer fill them to 20 lbs but charge
you for the full amount. The size of tanks you need depends on how you use it. If you heat and cook with it, bigger are necessary. If you only cook
occasionally with it, as we do, then the two 40 pounders are overkill. Ours last years on a single fill.
One thing I forgot in my design was a location to store the dump hoses and fittings. You need some place that will drain away under the coach. PVC pipe
can work well. Put it on an angle with a cap and drain at one end that goes down and out.
There's more on my setup for all this on my website: bus.gumpydog.com
Here is how mine is setup..
Water fill is on passenger side ( came that way when I bought bus ) but wish it was on drivers side. when at camp grounds I have to run hose under bus to get to the water hook up.. SO keep it on drivers side
Propane.. I use 20lb tanks. I have 3 on board so I can take them out and fill them with ease if needed.. I never have to worry about where to get propane.. I have one nozzle that can swing around to all 3 tanks when they are bolted down under bus, so if i et low I just unscrew and attach to the next tank.. then when convenient for me I fill up the empty tank.
waste drains.. gray and black water are both on drivers side which is a good thing because that is how most camp grounds have it setup when leaving or when you are at a full hook up site.
another suggestion is to get the BIGGEST gray tank you can fit under there.. when you boondock that is the one thing that will fill up faster then the black will.. I have 65 gallon gray and 65 gallon black and i wish i had 100 gray or more..
electrical.. mine is set up to be on the drive side but I modified it so I can actually pull the wire and use it on passenger side also.. I also have a 30 foot extension so I can go almost 80 feet on a 30 amp cord
Gumpy have you ever noticed that having your water and power on the right side is just the opposite of most if not all rv sites. Do you just run the cord and hose under the bus to the hookups? Just curious.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Hi Sean, in trailer parks the propane guy used to come by every two weeks or so when I would stay in So. Cal to work in the 1970s. Trailer parks were never as well spaced as RV parks and campers who had their propane tanks on the driver side would have to be there to pull their rig out, and disconnect everything, to get filled up, most of those people ended up, putting tanks in front so that they could get filled up more easily, after a while didnt see many with tanks on left, by the way installed tanks didnt have expiration dates at one time. Removable propane tanks are a good idea, then you can put them in the most convient place for space saving.The best sewer line installs, I think, now have rodent and pest box surrounds, its the easiest thing for them to gain acces to your coach. I dont like sewer drains hanging down outside like a trailer, to easy to damage on the road and parking, and I got mine snapped off by a blown tire that rolled under my bus and I have a bay access hole cover, look at the new class C utility compartments, the vacuum formed plastic bays are purchasable at after market shops and are well designed. Lvmci...
I am having almost all my inlets on both sides. Water is that way now, and electrical and cable TV/internet inlets will also be duplicated. Each water tank also has its own gravity fill, and because the tanks are interconnected I can fill either or both from either side. It saves having to possibly drag hoses and cables under the bus. Like Tom C, I also have a surreptitious gray water drain just ahead of the passenger-side rear wheels, and a hose can be connected to it. I put a water inlet near the three dump valves so I can run city water (through check valves obviously) into the top of the poo tank to help break up any Mounds Of Doom that may be growing near its outlet.
On the same subject, I have air outlets on both sides and back by the engine, and I'll also have 12VDC and 120VAC outlets at those three locations. I can also connect shop air at two places, useful for emergencies or if being towed.
For propane I have two 20-lb cylinders on a pull-out tray, connected through an automatic change-over regulator to the main propane distribution manifold, with a third cylinder as a back-up. It's prudent to follow NFPA 1192 for everything related to LPG.
I suggest spending the extra time now to put in as many inlets and outlets for everything as you think you'll ever need, instead of try to retrofit more later.
John
One of the upgrades we did on our Eagle was a 50amp shore power reel. That is my favorite thing we have done. No more dragging that big cable and trying to make it fit someplace in the bay. Just push a button and the cable is sucked up out of the way behind one of the mini splits. We ran it out through a trap door in the wheel well.
The 4107 we had had three dump valves, grey, black, master. That way, if the black or grey leaks for some reason, you can still close the dump. Nice to have if it decided to leak after dumping someplace.
Don and Cary
I like built in propane tank. Once mounted, you don't have to have anything else done. Portable tanks have to be recertified every few years, or buy new. If you plan your trips, etc, you won't have to have the inconvenience of unhooking to fill the propane if you run out. Fill for propane can be anywhere on the coach.
Good Luck, TomC
Lot's of great information. Sorry if it's been covered in the past (umpteen times).
One thing I see watching vid's about buses camping more than with other RV's is that I see them backed in more often (but not always).
I didn't know if people with 40'+ RV's dealt with different orientations vs shorter rigs, if pull throughs are usually set up one way, while face ins are setup another.
I did a lot of google searching for photos of RV parks and saw a few different things.... even one having the pedestal *in front and to the left* of the driver's door.
Backing in, heading in, pulling through... it gets a little confusing.
I am constrained by the design of my vehicle, so I'll tell you what I have in progress and see if you can find the problems with my setup and logic...
First, I purchased a 100gal fresh tank. That's a pretty big tank when you're standing looking at it trying to find a place for it. There is a 72" area on my driver's side that I could have divided into smaller tanks, or the fresh tank can just be made to fit in there. (ie... I could have gone 50F/50G, or 30F/30G/30B..etc.)
Anyway, the premise of my restoration is a little different. It will never be a luxury coach with exotic wood cabinetry. The premise of my rig is "BOM", or "Bug Out Mobile". Yeah... I prep' a little (err..plenty).
Based on that, in an emergency or shelter situation, fresh water was my priority so I got the largest fresh water tank that would fit under there (I don't have compartments like you guys, this all gets slung under).
Playing tank Jenga under there, I've located a spot that will take a 35 gallon black (between the frame in the rear), and about 30 gallon grey on the right side just in front of the rears.
I might as well tell you, that I personally don't have issue with dumping grey water roadside, or while camping alone. I'm sorry, but I was in the restaurant business and knowing what goes down drains, or tossed out in the dirt at *any* restaurant in a day is far worse than some fresh water mixed with coffee or even some sweat and biodegradable soap. Same holds true for the amount of petroleum getting washed to the roadside on any particular day by the large numbers of vehicles going down that road.
Point is, I figured if I'm in a park, then the grey would be open, and if I'm not and full... yes, I will find an appropriate spot to release it.
Black tank, well I'd like to have more but there's no room. 30-35 gallons, so I will be using public facilities as much as possible. I figure if for some reason I'm boon docking for an extended time, that I can figure a way to dump it into portable vessels to haul out later (10 5 gallon sealed paint buckets takes up very little space prior to use).
Anyway, you get the idea and I welcome your thoughts on my thoughts and capacities?
I have already purchased a 30 gallon propane tank for the purpose of mounting (RV type with mounts).
It seems like 30 gallons should last a long time, but I will add at least one backup portable.
I may not always be towing. My rig's secondary vehicle is a motorcycle that rides inside, and it would be awkward trying to refill propane tanks from it. I suppose I could get a big backpack for a small tank... that's a good idea.
The propane tank must be mounted on the passenger side, and I was wondering if the (required) remote fill is better on the left or the right. There will be no direct access to the tank, so I have a choice.
I hope to wander a bit. My plan is to boondocks as much as I can between RV parks, and it is an ignorant guess that I could go 2 weeks on that rig between dumping and refilling? I welcome your thoughts on this too. It's just me and a dog that eats and drinks a human amount.
So yeah... 10-14 days self contained, then a day at the park or wherever I can dump and refill, then repeat.
Honestly, I have to make some justifications to all of this. I am going down this road because I lost my house and I consider this rig "insurance" while I start a new life. For what I already have invested, I could have rented a house for well over a year somewhere, so the justification becomes "insurance first".
That said, I might go out for 2 months and decide it's not for me. To this end, the justification (and hence the design) become that I add this whole rig to my paranoid prepper bug out kit and park it in the driveway.
What does that have to do with service placements?... not much. I suppose I'm just trying to describe my thought process and why I'm hoping it's ok to go with a lot of fresh water, with much less grey and black water capacity.
All of your input here is really helping me visualize how to do these installations. Thanks!
Sean
Don- Do you have a model number on that 50 amp cord reel?
Quote from: digesterman on June 17, 2014, 07:49:29 AM
Gumpy have you ever noticed that having your water and power on the right side is just the opposite of most if not all rv sites. Do you just run the cord and hose under the bus to the hookups? Just curious.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Ummm, no, but I have noticed that I can't tell right from left at times. My electrical and water inlets are actually on the left side (driver's side). Will have to see if I can edit that post.
Composting Toilet.
http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/composting-toilet (http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/composting-toilet)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003EX7LV6/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B003EX7LV6&linkCode=as2&tag=gonwitthewyn-20 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003EX7LV6/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B003EX7LV6&linkCode=as2&tag=gonwitthewyn-20)
My former company manufactures a lot of the components RV parks use at the sites and with rare exception their location is always going to be on the driver's side of the coach. What is not an absolute is the placement of the services relative to a specific point on the coach.
Generally services are grouped in an area around where the rear axle(s) will be when the coach is in the proper position on the site. It is getting more common for some campgrounds to have the electric power outlets, cable TV, and water connections all on the pedestal. But that doesn't mean that is the case all the time. The sewer inlet is going to be somewhere on the driver's side but how far forward or behind the power pedestal is a huge variable, but ordinarily the sewer will be within 5 feet or so of the electric pedestal. I have never encountered connections intentionally placed on the passenger side of the coach. I have had them behind the coach, I have had them further forward on the site, but on the driver's side, and I have seen them where they have been located between two coaches, with the intent one coach is to point in one direction and the other coach in the opposite direction so the two driver's sides were side by side.
We got the 50 amp reel off Ebay. No idea as to the model. They are really easy to install.
On the tank issue. Try and get the hot water heater as close to the point of use as possible. You don't want to waste water waiting for it to get hot.
If you are planning on letting your grey water run in any state or federal park, you need to rethink that also. It is not allowed. Doesn't make much sense with the tent campers one spot over dumping their wash water on the ground.
Don and Cary
Quote from: sparkplug188 on June 17, 2014, 11:08:03 AM
Don- Do you have a model number on that 50 amp cord reel?
I have a Safe T Reel, manual rewind. Had it over 20 years with no problems. Well made but $$. Mine was $400. Welding suppliers carry these.
Don & Cary have a great point, proximity to the most used hot water faucets is important, my bus has a tankless propane and a 10 gallon electric water heater, originally designed to use elec while in rv park, my experience boondocking has led me to use the tankless, mostly. Less water running, less to empty, more time till I have to dump. Sean, I would be carefull about dumping your grey water, it is done a lot, but, there are local ordinances in a lot of places, that could be a quite expensive ticket. My bus has a black/grey tank combined, bigger tank in one place, taller, deeper, uses up less space overall, the side effect is that when emptying the tank you get a better clean out by the force of the extra water in the tank, from the water that would have been in a grey tank, lvmci...
Gumpy I looked at it and thought it was fine and you said left side not right or did I miss the editing, LOL ;D
Dave5Cs
Why not... left (and) right side ?...Im hooked up to another bus right now that has female 50 amp access plugs on both sides and with power management all is well....ps if anyone else pulls up for a bit then i can supply generator power for supply, or for house battery charging..George.. ;)
Quote from: lvmci on June 17, 2014, 07:35:01 PM
Don & Cary have a great point, proximity to the most used hot water faucets is important, my bus has a tankless propane and a 10 gallon electric water heater, originally designed to use elec while in rv park, my experience boondocking has led me to use the tankless, mostly. Less water running, less to empty, more time till I have to dump. Sean, I would be carefull about dumping your grey water, it is done a lot, but, there are local ordinances in a lot of places, that could be a quite expensive ticket. My bus has a black/grey tank combined, bigger tank in one place, taller, deeper, uses up less space overall, the side effect is that when emptying the tank you get a better clean out by the force of the extra water in the tank, from the water that would have been in a grey tank, lvmci...
Yes, thanks for the warning on dumping grey. I am familiar with being stealth in such matters, but I want to be fully forthcoming to everyone on this board. Hopefully the grey water police aren't watching.
You can also "leak" grey if you have a valve. A slow drip while driving will never get noticed. If it does... "oops".
Eagle mentions a compositing toilet above. Having lived and worked in a repair marina for a couple years, I've seen them and have been considering one. Kinda pricey to my budget at the moment. Might even do the porta potty thing and save up for one instead of doing a wet type toilet install.
A tankless hot water heater is already on the list... propane. If you haven't looked at my "bus projects" thread, I have a full 6' jacuzzi tub going in. That will be enclosed with sliding glass doors.
While this might seem extravagant, it's actually very practical. You can hand wash clothes in it and such.... even store stuff in it going down the road.
I have torn apart a real jacuzzi that I own (but no longer needed), and have the heating system for it ready to install in the tub (4.5kw 240v).
Since we're here, I'll describe my logic on what I imagine will be a very different plumbing setup...
First, Yes... I will have a tankless LPG. In fact, I'm using one right now while still living in my house.
With the tub, I will plumb it so it recirculates either using the electric, or LPG heater.
Basically it will be such that if I'm at an RV park, I can fill the tub with their water and turn the 240v heater on until the bath is hot enough to use. My generator can also accomplish this if I'm boon docking and out of propane and reeeeaaally need a bath.
Sometime soaking in a hot tub is just what a body needs.
Now here's the part of that plumbing plan that I hope you'll all be open minded about...
I really enjoy long hot showers. I intend to install a secondary "drain" to recirculate to the pump (and yes, back through the instant hot water heater).
The idea is to fill the tub with very little water and recirculate the water for as long as one would want to take a shower.
I will put a strainer and a water filter on the return line.
The process would be to get in with the drain open to the grey water tank, get clean, then close the drain and switch to the recirculating line.
That might sound gross, but taking a bath you don't even clean before getting in and sitting in that water (at least I don't know anyone who does). You're basically sitting in the water you clean in and drain it at the end.
With the system I'm designing, you would shower with similar water, and it would be strained and filtered to catch any stray eyelashes or whatnot.
My hope is to get it to about a gallon of water per shower, but make the shower last as long as you like.
(ACK! I can hear it coming already! Lol!).
Sean:
My two pesos' worth:
We have stayed (when we had our fifth-wheel and before that, an overhead camper) in campgrounds from Oaxaca in southern Mexico all the way up to Ontario, Canada. Hookups were always on the driver's side, around the rear 1/3 of vehicle length. Some state and national parks and rest areas along interstates have dump stations. They are always on the driver's side.
See here for finding dump stations:
http://www.rvdumps.com/ (http://www.rvdumps.com/)
I am also of the portable propane tanks decision. I see you already bought a fixed tank.
I don't know about the U. S. The fixed-type propane tanks ALSO have to be periodically certified every so many years. Here in Mexico: We have to change the valves on them @ 5 years, and @ 10 years they have to be replaced. If you use the portable tanks and exchange them for full ones at the gas place, then that is THEIR problem and not yours. :-)
The size of your fresh/gray/black water tanks also depends on how many people are traveling in your rig. Also: Consider showers when boondocking to be:
(1) Wet yourself down.
(2) Turn off the water. (for this purpose we installed a third faucet en route to the shower head.)
(3) Apply soap and shampoo.
(4) Turn on water and rinse off.
We have managed to shower (males) with under 1.5 gallons of water, and females with under 2.5 gallons.
I chose an electrical pass-through water heater to save propane. It can run off the inverter. Also I used insulation on all the hot water line to reduce loss of heat en route to shower.
I wish you success, my friend!
Quote from: Dave5Cs on June 17, 2014, 08:36:04 PM
Gumpy I looked at it and thought it was fine and you said left side not right or did I miss the editing, LOL ;D
Dave5Cs
I edited the original post. I had originally said right side for power and water, which is not correct. Hadn't had any coffee yet when I wrote it.
A couple responses on this thread have indicated they have, or have seen service fixtures on both sides of their bus. This is fine for water and dump valves.
It's not fine for electrical entrance unless there is a selector switch somewhere which actively selects one side or the other. The reason I say this is because
the service entrance fixture has bare male prongs inside the cap which mate to the female plug. If both sides are simply connected together in the breaker
box, then when one side is plugged in, the prongs on the other side are hot. This is a huge risk, even if they are covered with the screw on cover that
Marinco fixtures have.
I don't know the specifics of the installations of the people who mentioned that on this thread, but please be smart about what you are doing. Don't do
something stupid just because it's convenient for you. If you want an electrical service entrance on both sides, make sure you use a selector switch.
I want to echo the warning about two sided electrical connections. Our coach has a cord reel and a receptacle on both sides of the coach to be used with the coil of cable we carry.
The default is the cord reel, but if we use the power cord we have to select that along with the side of the coach the cord connects to so all potential sources of power are only usable when selected. When using inverters which automatically switch from battery chargers to a 120V power supply in the absence of shore or generator power there also has to be a transfer switch or some other device to prevent back feeding power from inverters to the power cord reel or receptacle.
Sean, when your power is 240volt, you will need 50amp service, not all parks have both 50 and 30, many times a limited amount of 50s, and they are usually 5 to 10 dollars more for 50 spaces, rig electrical so that some parts of the bus, will work with an adapter to use 30amp when 50 is not available, lvmci...
If you use a cord reel then you should try to un-reel it fully when using it. A coiled cord can inductively couple to itself and overheat. Not always, but sometimes. I had it happen once with a long lawnmower type cord just coiled up on the ground, it got quite hot.
I've taken old, out of date 20 lb tanks and exchanged them for new at the home store. I felt bad, but the guy told me every tank gets rebuilt and re-certified anyway, so they didn't care. Mu bus is set up for a pair of 30 lb tanks, so I guess I will have a choice to make when they are too old.
Brian
Even with short runs on hot water lines, my shower still takes about 10 seconds to get warm. To combat that water waste, on my shower, bath sink, kitchen sink, I'm installing a warm up valve. It consists of a ball valve in the hot water line as close to the sink or shower valve as possible with a return line to the water tank. So when you open the ball valve, everything gets hot with the warming water returning to the water tank and not wasting it going down the drain. Sean had these on his bus that were electric water valves, but required periodic maintenance. Once again, I like simple, so just a ball valve should work well. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: Mex-Busnut on June 18, 2014, 04:59:34 AM
<snip>
The size of your fresh/gray/black water tanks also depends on how many people are traveling in your rig. Also: Consider showers when boondocking to be:
(1) Wet yourself down.
(2) Turn off the water. (for this purpose we installed a third faucet en route to the shower head.)
(3) Apply soap and shampoo.
(4) Turn on water and rinse off.
<snip>
I hope to overcome this limitation with some creative plumbing. I'll keep everyone in the loop :)
Quote from: Mex-Busnut on June 18, 2014, 04:59:34 AM... Consider showers when boondocking to be:
(1) Wet yourself down.
(2) Turn off the water. (for this purpose we installed a third faucet en route to the shower head.)
(3) Apply soap and shampoo.
(4) Turn on water and rinse off. ...
I found a shower head (very nice water flow and pattern) with a button just on the pipe side of the shower head. Push the button one way, you get flow; push it the other and it's off for you to soap up/shampoo/wash. After i did that, I found a little adapter that goes between the pipe and any shower head that has the same button and I guess it would work well, too. I think that there's also a shower head with a lever that does the same thing but I've never seen one.
HTH, BH NC USA
I haven't given it a lot of thought but the guy that converted our bus did a pretty good job. I found the setup clever and so far it seems to work well.
Here is our left rear bay. It has 2 100gal fresh water, 100gal black, and 100gal grey tanks. Also in here is the propane water on demand heater and the power cord with an access in the wheel well so the doors will close and latch and the hose/power can still come through. As you can see by switching some valves around you can run the hose full time or fill the tanks and run the pump. The tank over flow comes out of the rear fender also.
Black and grey water drains are in the floor with the black first so the grey will flush out the drain as you dump it last. I hadn't thought about it but we only need to open one bay door to hook up power, water, or drain the tanks. The guy planned well it looks like.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-nLe0CeZoLzs/U6HVlgHeq_I/AAAAAAAAAXo/y11Ze6N1HrE/w871-h653-no/IMG_2244%255B1%255D.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NJjt-kaYoFI/U6HVbx7wueI/AAAAAAAAAXo/KsNuqWqTY7I/w871-h653-no/IMG_2245%255B1%255D.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-xYICWNOosUs/U6HVTD_1psI/AAAAAAAAAXo/iL8XH3dI2lI/w871-h653-no/IMG_2246%255B1%255D.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-r4pwX0iLS2U/U6HVQEBKWiI/AAAAAAAAAXo/-4oh3U5vaIQ/w871-h653-no/IMG_2247%255B1%255D.JPG)
In the last bay on the right side, behind the tanks is our propane setup. Running the shower, stove and heaters I think this is about a years supply... :o
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-TQOx1L3qisE/U6HVCCmkk7I/AAAAAAAAAXo/g6T8_7bBInc/w871-h653-no/IMG_2248%255B1%255D.JPG)
Driver- Do you have any model numbers and a supplier for the propane manifolds, hoses, and regulator? I am wanting to do the same setup on my bus. I can find parts on eBay-- I just do not know what parts can supply enough CFM to run a larger tankless water heater.
Driver-Nice set up. But-I don't see any kind of vent in the floor of the propane cabinet. Propane is heavier then air and needs to be vented out the bottom of the floor. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: sparkplug188 on June 19, 2014, 05:40:55 AM
Driver- Do you have any model numbers and a supplier for the propane manifolds, hoses, and regulator? I am wanting to do the same setup on my bus. I can find parts on eBay-- I just do not know what parts can supply enough CFM to run a larger tankless water heater.
First determine how many BTU the water heater is, then size everything else to match it. FYI, I have a Camco 59005 automatic change-over 2-stage LPG regulator that is rated at a maximum of 160,000 BTU (but I think one side of it is rated slightly less than that), and it supplies propane through 1/2" Pro-Flex CSST flexible stainless gas pipe. Pro-Flex also has a 4-branch distribution manifold (that can be made into a 5-branch by using a street elbow in the end), and this and their CSST have plenty of BTU capacity for anything in a bus. Pigtails from the individual LPG cylinders need not be larger than 1/4" - I had some made up using Parker 7132 high-pressure gas hose, and I also use MB Sturgis 5LPN quick-connect fittings on the unregulated high-pressure side. All of this should flow plenty of gas, even for a tankless water heater. Pro-Flex is available from Lowes for a lot less than equivalent CSST from other manufacturers, and I'm pleased with it.
John
Quote from: Audiomaker on June 17, 2014, 11:25:31 PM
Now here's the part of that plumbing plan that I hope you'll all be open minded about...
I really enjoy long hot showers. I intend to install a secondary "drain" to recirculate to the pump (and yes, back through the instant hot water heater).
The idea is to fill the tub with very little water and recirculate the water for as long as one would want to take a shower.
I will put a strainer and a water filter on the return line.
The process would be to get in with the drain open to the grey water tank, get clean, then close the drain and switch to the recirculating line.
That might sound gross, but taking a bath you don't even clean before getting in and sitting in that water (at least I don't know anyone who does). You're basically sitting in the water you clean in and drain it at the end.
With the system I'm designing, you would shower with similar water, and it would be strained and filtered to catch any stray eyelashes or whatnot.
My hope is to get it to about a gallon of water per shower, but make the shower last as long as you like.
(ACK! I can hear it coming already! Lol!).
Sean,
One of the Pop Sci/Mech magazines had a feature last year on a recirculating shower that would pass sanitary codes. The trick was a heating element which raised the temp of the recirculated water to (as I recall) about 170 degrees Farenheight which "sanitized" it and then mixed with cool water so you didn't get scalded. You don't have the same building codes :)
Speaking of building codes, when I first got interested in RVs & conversions back in the 80's, some states had laws requiring that the utility connections be located on the road (driver) side to prevent indiscriminate dumping and curbside hookups that trailed power and water lines across sidewalks. I've never checked to see if that has changed, but . . .
edward
Quote from: shelled on June 19, 2014, 12:50:09 PM
Sean,
One of the Pop Sci/Mech magazines had a feature last year on a recirculating shower that would pass sanitary codes. The trick was a heating element which raised the temp of the recirculated water to (as I recall) about 170 degrees Farenheight which "sanitized" it and then mixed with cool water so you didn't get scalded. You don't have the same building codes :)
Speaking of building codes, when I first got interested in RVs & conversions back in the 80's, some states had laws requiring that the utility connections be located on the road (driver) side to prevent indiscriminate dumping and curbside hookups that trailed power and water lines across sidewalks. I've never checked to see if that has changed, but . . .
edward
That's interesting about the driver placement laws Edward.
For the recirculating shower... I dunno, it's just common sense. You stay at this fancy hotel with a beautiful tub and most people just get in. They soap up...wash...rinse... all in the same water, but in a shower where you can quickly lather and rinse (and be for the most part clean), and then switch the valve to recirculate so you can actually enjoy the warmth of the shower for say 15 minutes brings to mind visions of pouring contaminated water all over one's self?
I guess I'm a little more rugged than to care that much if I get hit by some skin cells that I also shed in my bed, and walk around with in my clothes every day. At least with the recirc', you can filter it (and some filters do a really good job).
It's the same kind of mental barrier that keeps people from eating food if they drop it on the ground.
I always think to myself "When what's on the ground becomes as disgusting or unhealthy as what's actually *in* the food, then this will makes sense"
I have not read the fine answers already given so if I repeat stuff...opps. Now also is the time to sit down and have much fun doing the basic weights and measures of the finished coach.
What this means is doing the fun basic math to PRE determine just how much weight will be on each axle end when the Bus Conversion is finished and expected to roll down the road.
Example; If your Bus Conversion has a 12K+ front axle and a 20K+ nominal rear axle, (plus any tax axles @ around 9K) you can NOW easily determine how much weight will be on each axle end.
You want a balanced Bus Conversion when it is all done. The weights do not have to be perfect, (passengers moving around...dynamic fluid loads..etc) but you can get it within about 100 pounds even.
Do not forget the suspension and tire/wheel capacity also. You do not want to overload just one corner of the coach and leave another corner too lightly laden. Also consider the single/duel tire capacities.
Example; A rather heavy, nice 10K gen set hanging 64 inches out past the rear of the rear axle point will LIFT the front end of the coach. Heavy stuff, if possible, goes better between the axles. One example.
Hope this helps. HB of CJ (old coot)
Quote from: Audiomaker on June 19, 2014, 01:29:17 PM
I always think to myself "When what's on the ground becomes as disgusting or unhealthy as what's actually *in* the food, then this will makes sense"
Funny, nervous truth, but funny.
Quote from: TomC on June 19, 2014, 08:04:42 AM
Driver-Nice set up. But-I don't see any kind of vent in the floor of the propane cabinet. Propane is heavier then air and needs to be vented out the bottom of the floor. Good Luck, TomC
Good point Tom. I guess I assumed it was in the back but I took another look today and there is no vent tube. There is a propane smell due to a leaking hose clamp though... >:(
Time to add it to the list...
Quote from: DriverGT5 on June 19, 2014, 03:30:53 PM
Good point Tom. I guess I assumed it was in the back but I took another look today and there is no vent tube. There is a propane smell due to a leaking hose clamp though... >:(
Time to add it to the list...
:o Add it to the
TOP of the list!
If you are only going to take short jaunts the stationary tanks are fine, fill before you go. If you plan to spend any length of time in the coach go for the portable tanks!
Which brings up the subject of automatic tank change over valves. Really a super great idea. One tank empty's and the valve magically switches to the other with out any effort on your part. Modern technology, don't you love it?
So when you are in middle of cooking a really nice NY strip and you run out of gas, you now have 2 empty LP tanks ;D
Quote from: jjrbus on June 19, 2014, 05:06:43 PM
If you are only going to take short jaunts the stationary tanks are fine, fill before you go. If you plan to spend any length of time in the coach go for the portable tanks!
Makes sense. I had room for a 30gal (120lb?) horizontal tank. I would think 120lbs should last awhile but I really don't know.
I will tuck away one or two portables as well.
Quote from: jjrbus on June 19, 2014, 05:06:43 PM
If you are only going to take short jaunts the stationary tanks are fine, fill before you go. If you plan to spend any length of time in the coach go for the portable tanks!
Which brings up the subject of automatic tank change over valves. Really a super great idea. One tank empty's and the valve magically switches to the other with out any effort on your part. Modern technology, don't you love it?
So when you are in middle of cooking a really nice NY strip and you run out of gas, you now have 2 empty LP tanks ;D
If you do not have automatic change over valves, it will always be cold and rainy when one tank empties.
It will be an absolutely gorgeous day out when one tank empty's, you are outside grilling steaks remember. :D
Quote from: Len Silva on June 20, 2014, 05:48:49 AMIf you do not have automatic change over valves, it will always be cold and rainy when one tank empties.
Not a fight I got a dog in, but is there any indication (separate gauges for each tank???) when the first tank is empty and the change over valve changes over?
Nope
Nice thing about permanent chassis mounted tanks, is that you can have a gauge inside the bus. I also have a switched solenoid so I can only have on the gas when needed (I only use propane for furnace and stove). Then with the gauge you have plenty of notice before running out. Good Luck, TomC
We have a permanent tank and a removable one connected with an automatic switch over. I always use the portable tank first and generally refill it as soon as it empties.
Quote from: Lin on June 20, 2014, 09:28:50 AM
We have a permanent tank and a removable one connected with an automatic switch over. I always use the portable tank first and generally refill it as soon as it empties.
I like this idea.
I wonder...
My stationary tank has a sender built into the physical gauge (0-90ohm). I wonder if one could install such a sender on a portable so that you could have an interior gauge for your portable(s)?
0-90ohm is common as fuel tank gauge impedance so you should be able to use an aftermarket automotive fuel gauge (including digital if you liked).
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on June 20, 2014, 06:08:24 AM
Not a fight I got a dog in, but is there any indication (separate gauges for each tank???) when the first tank is empty and the change over valve changes over?
The Camco 59005 regulator has a small colored indicator that changes between green and red when it switches from one cylinder to the other. Besides, each of my cylinders has its own little gauge showing sort-of how full-ish it is - they will tell you which cylinder has run out and which is still OK.
John
When the automatic switchover takes place, it does not move the valve handle/indicator. Hence, even though it is using the second tank, the indicator still points toward the first tank and displays red to show it is empty.
I ordered the Camco 59005 regulator and supply hoses. The regulator supply lines are long enough to mount the regulator next to the tankless water heater. I need help with the low pressure side-- I plan on using a 1' long piece of black pipe, a couple 90° fittings, and a brass adapter to go from 3/8 NPT female regulator output to 3/4 black pipe. However, I have not been able to find that specific brass adapter. Anyone know where I can find one?
You may Have to go to OSH or the depot and it might take a few pieces to get from 1to the other with reducers.
Dave5Cs from Galaxy S III
Pexsupply.com
Fulltiming somewhere in the USA
1984 Eagle 10S
www.herdofturtles.org (http://www.herdofturtles.org)
Thanks, Seangie :) Pexsupply.com is exactly what I was looking for. They have EVERYTHING plumbing related!
Quote from: sparkplug188 on June 21, 2014, 03:26:01 AM
I need help with the low pressure side-- I plan on using a 1' long piece of black pipe, a couple 90° fittings, and a brass adapter to go from 3/8 NPT female regulator output to 3/4 black pipe. However, I have not been able to find that specific brass adapter. Anyone know where I can find one?
Is this what you need: http://fittingsandadapters.com/adapter.html - part 23212x6 ? If you're in SoCal, McFadden-Dale probably has them in their stores, and if so for much less than the online price. You may also want to think about having a valve immediately after the regulator, just in case . . .
John
Quote from: sparkplug188 on June 21, 2014, 05:32:41 PM
Thanks, Seangie :) Pexsupply.com is exactly what I was looking for. They have EVERYTHING plumbing related!
Spark - no problem. They are my go to for plumbing. They are not the cheapest but shipping is exact cost and service is great. Don't be afraid to call them and ask questions..they are very helpful.
-Sean
Fulltiming somewhere in the USA
1984 Eagle 10S
www.herdofturtles.org (http://www.herdofturtles.org)