Hey guys...looks like my ghost of a problem finally caught up with me.
I'm stuck in a Loves parking lot in Modesto CA. It seems I have a bad starter or more likely the solenoid is bad. Here is where I am on this one.
1. Starter was rebuilt exactly one year ago.
2. Batts are fully charged @12.7v
3. Negative from the starter is connected directly to the negative on the battery.
4. I've tried jumping the starter straight from the battery and the solenoid only clicks
I've had this problem previously and if starting from the front and it won't start I would wiggle the shifter and make sure its in neutral and usually it starts right up. One out of maybe a hundred times it wouldn't start from the front and I would start it from the back with no problem. If it wouldn't start from the back I would jump the starter with a 6' wire from the positive on the battery to the switch terminal on the solenoid and it would start right up.
Any ideas where to start or a part number for a new starter? I remember you all talking about a starter that was half the size with twice the power that should fit a 692.
Thanks guys...
-Sean
Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk
What you are looking for is a Delco 39MT, or the equivilant in Mitsubishi. Gear reduction starter. Modesto/Fresno should have plenty of truck parts houses, or maybe try Valley Detroit.
Mark -
Excellent. Thanks for that tidbit. Saves me from searching the forums all night ;)
I'm assuming the pinion gear is the correct size and the bolt holes will line up correctly?
When you say clic, does that mean one clic (a loud one time CLACK)
or is it a chatter where it goes in and out weakly ?
Aloud clack would tell me that the solenoid is probably ok.
Have a volt meter ?, when the solenoid is engaged, what is the voltage on the starter motor post ? are you getting 12.7 or less, less would show that the solenoid contactor inside is burnt or not contacting properly.
Do you have two pair of vice grips ? Do you have a heavy duty set of jumper cables ?
You can cross (by pass) the solenoid and check the starter motor without engaging the Bendix.
that bent L shape piece that connects the solenoid to the starter is the path that motors the motor.
IF you were to bypass the solenoid and the motor growls it's the starter vs. spins aggressively with an adrenaline producing intensity...it's not the starter.
My guess is a bad ground, check that the battery grounds are absolutely tight and clean. I would open a 12-16 inch crescent and see if the battery clamps slip on the posts.
PS the vice grips are like sacrificial arc points, if you can carefully put them on the solenoid battery post and the starter post then you can use your least favorite screw driver (or jumper cables) to short across the pliers (vice grips) without arcing your starter nuts.
wish I was there to help.
Don - Thanks for the info. It makes a single loud clack. No chatter. One of the leads on my volt meter crapped out on me 2 days ago and I haven't had a chance to pick up another...my week seems to be going that way. I know for certain its not a bad ground although I am going to double check. All battery wires have been replaced and contacts are clean as a whistle.
I have a gut feeling its the solenoid. I'm taking it apart now to see what it looks like in there.
I wish you could be here to help too. Always nice to have a voice of reason. As you tear these things apart.
-Sean
Fulltiming somewhere in the USA
1984 Eagle 10S
www.herdofturtles.org (http://www.herdofturtles.org)
Check the relays and solenoid in the rear electric panel. Look for one that looks like any old Ford solenoid.
Just jump around it and see what happens.
I have seen this in more than one Eagle.
Good luck,
Joe
Joe - Thanks. I've bypassed the starting relay and solenoid and tried turning the starter over straight from the battery and still no luck. Only a single clack.
I took the solenoid apart and no problem with it. It appears that the starter motor is possibly frozen up. I'm gonna try whacking it again with a hammer and then I'm going to bed.
Hopefully a new starter will fix this tomorrow.
-Sean
Fulltiming somewhere in the USA
1984 Eagle 10S
www.herdofturtles.org (http://www.herdofturtles.org)
Sean,
This fix may not be worth the effort BUT:
If you have had an intermittent no start problem the starter may have a bad place on the commuter, a brush or brush spring failed, or a major armature failure. If the armature failed you are dead in the water, the other situations can be helped in a pinch.
Remove the starter and CAREFULLY disassemble. Make sure you keep all the parts in line (or whatever method you use) so that you can reassemble everything correctly. Check the brushes and springs. Still there, springy? Brushes still long enough to have some life? Thoroughly clean the brush/spring assembly and commuter with electrical contact cleaner. HOLD THE ARMATURE SO THAT THE CLEANER DOES NOT RUN OVER IT. Some types of cleaner will remove the shellac in the windings & cause them to short out. Check the commuter for pitting, damage. You can burnish the commuter with steel wool or one of those pads the body shop folks use. It the old days we would cut the commuter down on a lathe to resurface it. Good luck on finding somebody to do that now. Thoroughly clean the commuter again. You will have to check each groove between the commuter coppers for any residue as anything between them will short a winding. Again, we used to have a little machine made like a miniature radial arm saw for cleaning those. Good luck on finding one of those, too; or a growler, used for the final check for the armature for bad windings. Anyway.......
Make sure everything is clean and reassemble, greasing the end bushings when you assemble them.
Check by firmly securing the starter & using jumper cables to supply voltage.
Have fun!
TOM
Having just gone thru this myself in the last 2 months i would recommend just taking the old starter with you to match it up to a new one and buy a 39MT. Knowing what i know now i wouldn't even mess around with the old one.
i am going to throw this in as it is the easiest.....remove and clean contact points on starter cables (all ends) and reattach tightly, I have been amazed in the past at how resistive corrosion can be...also battery grounds and engine grounds.....u may be surprised.
second that on the cable connections on the starter. sounds like a bad connection--even if cables are tight.
Alrighty - the quick easy fix was buying the 39MT to replace the old starter. Kinda pissed that I paid 250 for a rebuild one year ago and having issues and the 39MT only cost me 325. That is one sexy piece of machinery though. I just think about starting the bus and it starts right up. Just a slight touch of the button and vrooooom.
So all good on my end. Thanks all for your help. I don't know what I'd do without this board.
Was going to post pics but this board seems to be having issues with tapatalk.
-Sean
Before or after the rebuild, was there any time that you tried to start the coach with low batteries? Just curious, as that is the fastest way to kill a good starter.
Sean, so glad your good, where you of to next, lvmci...
Chessie - not at all. This has been happening randomly since the rebuilt starter was put in a year ago. I always attributed it to other things I fixed that seemed to solve the problem. Last night I pulled the solenoid and took it apart and it looked brand spanking new. No burn marks or worn parts.
Don nailed it when he said if you get a loud strong clack that the solenoid is fine. I think something was locked up in the starter motor. When I pulled the starter the pinion gear could move though...weird. past that now with a new starter.
Thanks for the heads up.
-Sean
Tom - just grabbed my Mom who we flew into San Jose. She is with us on the bus for the next 2 weeks. Tonight we are headed to Monterey then up through San Fran and then to Portland before the end of the month.
You headed out here this weekend? Would be great to see you ;)
-Sean
Sean where did you find and get it so fast. I was calling all the NAPA and truck shops and no one seemed to have it for you. Glad you found it.
Dave
Dave - it was a complete blessing. I was in the parking lot at 11pm pulling the starter and this guy rides up out of no where on his Holy Davidson and was curious as to what I was fixing. He tells me he works for a truck stop down the road and gave me the phone number to their distributor for parts (Delta providing parts for frieghtliner) and tells me who to call and what to ask for. They were 20 minutes down the road open on Saturday and had it sitting on the shelf.
Had I not found them I would have ended up shelling out 500$ to the truck garage and waiting at least half a day or more to get it and would probably have to let them do the work as they don't make a whole lot of money on parts.
-Sean
Holy Davidson works in Mysterious ways. Well good, glad it worked out. Safe travels.
Dave
Those are great starters and will handle voltage problems better than a 42 but keep in mind they are not rebuild able some say they are but that is a disposable starter when it breaks you buy another one,and if you develop a phantom battery drain that will be the problem always turn the master switch off if setting for months
good luck
Indeed the geared starters are lighter than the direct drive units, draw less current too. I nearly went with the MT39 but found my issue so had the MT42 rebuilt, great crank speed now. Had to install a second 4/0 cable between the batteries and the starter solenoid post, already had the 2nd 4/0 on the neg. post.
Know I need a new 4/0 cable some where on the original wiring, just had not tracked it down yet.
Dave M
A 42 is a good starter most of the re builders are the problem I seen those starter 25 years old and never give a problem,most so called re builders don't have the equipment to check the hp or torque on 1 they just make sure it spins and take your cash
Hi Sean, boy you got a full house! It would be great to be there, working in LV big conventions & NHL awards, will catchup with you, tom...