Hi all;
passing by our local scrap yard fri and noticed 4 crown coached waiting
to be scrapped out. Sat I stopped by to check out their tires. Most
were too old.
My question is;
#1 -- - Where are the spares tires kept?
#2 - - - Where are the batteries located?
I have heard that when a bus is scrapped out that spare tires and
new batteries are left is place.
Would like to stop by again for a look, but I need to know where to look.
Thanks, Merle.
Are you a thief in the night??>>>D ::)
Sad. The spares were normally carried right behind the front bumper. Some were relocated to either the right front storage compartment just behind the right front tire or sometimes to the rear trunk inside the rear doors. Usually just behind the front bumper.
The two 12 volt starting batteries were normally located just to the rear of the engine on the drivers side. Sometimes located on the passengers side just aft of the engine. Depended upon where the fuel tank(s) were located. Clear as mud. Optional places were specified.
Crowns forever. Hope this helps. HB of CJ (old coot) (37317)
Don just scraped out a Crown what shame there was 2 from the Needles School district that went to scrap yard,my understanding is they cannot be sold only for scrap
Or...it might be possible, (I dunno fur sures) that a out of state buyer could buy the condemned Crown Supercoach(s) and promise to remove the aforementioned coach out of state? There would also be no sales tax? The question is are the Crowns still in running condition? Mine had less than 1000 miles on a brand new CHP school bus inspection certificate.
Others may be in very rough shape fit only for....the crusher. Oh well. HB of CJ (old coot) :( But...they would have to be about a 1984 to 1988 2 axle 35-36 footers with flat windshields and Cummins NTC engines with a manual tranny for me to be still interested. Too long ago and far away. I think the 2 stroke Detroit versions would have to be scrapped regardless?
The CARB air-Nazis are forcing all the remaining Crowns out of service in CA. If a school district gets a grant to buy a new disposabus to replace an old Crown, the Crown has to be destroyed regardless of its condition, even if an out-of-state buyer wants to buy it. The only Crowns being legally sold now in CA are from private fleets or individuals. There's no political will to re-engine them with compliant diesels or CNG engines, otherwise suitable engines would have been made available - there's more money to be made by scrapping perfectly serviceable buses that have an essentially indefinite life, and replacing them with POS buses designed to last only ten years or so. A thirty-years-old Crown is still a safer and better-built bus than anything being made now to transport school children. Sad, sad, sad.
John
Yeah it kinda sucks for the Crowns. I hate seeing any of them going away. When I first converted my bus, the carb rules had just been put in place, and I actually followed a perfectly running Crown for about 20 miles on the freeway, right to the scrapyard where two hours later I was removing parts from it for my crown! The yard was really a sad site- here's a photo! Horrible.
That said, I just scrapped another one two days ago, but only because it had already been stripped of most of it's engine parts and stuff- by the time I bought it, it was already too far gone to ever run the roads again- but lots of it will live on. I'm SUPER happy tho, 'cause I got an awesome power steering box and a new aluminum roof for my Crown (it was special ordered to be steel and was pretty rusted out) and a lot of other unobtainium parts that were sorely needed.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heartmagic.com%2FzzCrownPanorama.JPG&hash=419fce70960f0577a9db02fb20119ca14fc4eb3c)
It not only schools buses it is sad to see late models 45 ft MCI and other buses used for commuter in City Transit systems sold off as scrap I saw some nice Blue Birds commuter buses being crushed and the public was not allowed to bid on,it's happening in Vegas,Houston,Dallas and Denver was the last place I heard was crushing all the older transit and commuter buses
Sometimes the rules or laws make no sense at all. But....it is only tax dollars, so it does not really count. Good to hear from you Gary. Crowns Forever. Long ago and far away. HB of CJ (old coot) :( :( :( (VIN 37317)
Even though Crown bus still come up to roll over rules, the new seats with seat belts and convertible child seats would be too expensive to convert. Granted I'd like to see an engine that would be able to be layed over under the floor-maybe a Cummins 6.7 liter? But no one has gone through the engineering exercise.
I've seen smaller school districts and small charter companies still using the Crown. When you consider Crown went out of business around 1992, that's rather amazing these buses are still used in commercial service.
If you don't mind the few short comings of Crown mid engine (Crown made a few rear engine), then you could have a bus conversion that would last longer then you. Good Luck, TomC
I have never understood the fascination with trying to hang on to things that have outlived their usefulness. Preservationists want to force people to restore old houses and I get a sense many on here think it is a sin to let any bus go to the recycler.
We really take care of our stuff and it is not unusual for our vehicles to be 25 years or older. But at some point the technology and standards, especially as relates to safety make restored or well maintained vehicles great for parades and not much else. I have a 50 Ford that I thought I would tow until I realized when restoring it what a piece of crap it is compared to today's vehicles. So now it is getting a brand new undercarriage with PS, PDB, AC, etc. To anyone it will be a 50 Ford. But in reality it will be a brand new car but with a 50 Ford body.
To do that to a bus is out of the question.
Jon I am not into old bus restoring BTDT never again but some love to do it,Boomer is into it because he likes old buses,then the guy selling his Prevost to move into a old Flex that is what they like to do
The buses I saw being crushed were late model some would have loved the MCI's I read some place were 13 years old was the limit would you crush a 13 year old Prevost Liberty ? I damn sure wouldn't
My self I would have loved to have one of the 45 ft Blue Bird commuter buses those are good looking buses and were not old crushed it was a shame
I guess this is a philosophical discussion now. I personally, am not into restoration of old vehicles for its own sake. One of my daughters has an ancient Valiant that she keeps up. I told her that I thought it was junk when it was new, and now as backward, unsafe, and uncomfortable as it is, there is no reason to keep it going.
Restoration of a house or building is something else entirely. Some structures should be preserved for their architecture. Others for their historical significance. It might be efficient in the long run, for example, to tear down the White House and Capital for more modern steel and glass structures, but I do not think many would find that acceptable.
With regard to buses and Crowns in particular here. I don't think the issue is that anyone is saying school districts should be forced to keep them, or these vehicles should be somehow enshrined. It is more about being saddened by the fact that they are crushing by law vehicles that have not outlived their usefulness and are not inherently unsafe.
Please don't misinterpret what I am saying. I think it is a sin to tear down an old house that has useful life left and which has woodwork and trim no longer possible because of the skills required to do it. I think it is a crime to scrap a Scenicruiser because they represent an era we will never see again.
But there is an apparent movement towards saving stuff just because it is old. I see posts to that effect on various forums.
Really????? I'm past the two stroke era. I loved mine, I loved the sound. But the Series 60 blew it out of the water. I want ABS brakes so I have every advantage possible to protect myself from the morons that are out to get me. I want good roll over protection. I want high quality lighting and I don't want the adventure that comes with a coach pieced together from salvaged parts.
I never hear anyone wishing for the good old days of rotary dials and bag phones. Everyone wants flat screen TVs. Nobody wants to go back to the days of cars that needed a choke or had plugs that needed replacement every 10,000 miles.
I believe there is a place for rebuilding and restoring and that is for parades and museums. Maybe occasionally get wild and crazy and go for a rally. But while it is sad buses and cars and houses go to the scrap pile I would rather see that happen than to see them with trees growing through them.
There has been a light blue Flx round back bus (I think about a 1952 since it has large slant windows, instead of many rectangular small ones) that has been totally reskined, painted. The best part, the owner pulled the bus off the old Flx chassis and mounted it on a new Freightliner chassis with Cummins ISL, Allison 3000MH, front independent air suspension with air discs, rear air suspension with air drum brakes, multiplexed wiring, all brought up to date. It is quite simply a bitchen looking bus. Good Luck, TomC
Jon, as Tom implies, the bus you choose is a canvas -- a starting point -- that reflects an individuals choices. I, for one have had enough experience with computer obsolescence (no matter whether a PC on an engine/transmission controller) that I want nothing do do with a Series 60 engine. My criteria are very different than yours by reason of hard earned experience. Please respect the fact that other folks do not have the same priorities as you.
edward
Edward. I get it. I really do and tried to indicate that by saying how my 50 Ford is going to end up as a new car with a modern chassis, running gear, and all the character of a 64 year old car while embracing the brakes, steering and handling of today's cars.
Had I not wanted it as a toad that car would have remained original because it was fun running it on weekends to get a shake or burger. I just couldn't bring myself to consider that old technology capable of our interstate speeds or for anything more than something for local driving.
Where I get concerned is very few of the older buses are bought to be restored, but because they are cheap. Then the new owner gets that dose of reality about the cost of maintaining a bus being the same on an old one as it is on a new one. So the coach either becomes a never ending project with no trips (assuming it will run and drive) being without the drama of roadside repairs and a stream of posts on this and other sites seeking rare parts or even new engines. Sometimes it is just better to accept that some coaches are better off being recycled or at least not used as one would use a conventional motor home with modern and reliable underpinnings.
I admit the computerization of coaches is scary and there is a great comfort in dealing with more basic coaches and engines. I get excited when I see the skills and quality of work of some folks on these forums. The work some of these folks are doing is nothing less than spectacular. But I am not being disrespectful of anyone's choices regarding restoration or home building but I am expressing an opinion that some stuff such as a junk yard full of 60 year old buses or a derelict sitting in someones yard for 20 years is not much more than metal waiting to be recycled.
I have always said that if the good old days were so good when it comes to technolgy then why don't they exist anymore. No doubt that it's very sad to see those CROWNS destroyed. It does fly in the face of logic that school bus operators would rather spend money to replace a bus every ten years than to keep a bus a CROWN at least twice as long but the market has spoken. We all have our favorite things that have gone the way of the square wheel and eight track. I love my '04 MERCURY GRAND MARQUIS as much as the day as I drove it off the lot back in January '04 and it still runs like a swiss watch and looks fine yet. I love the muffled growl of the V8 and I know that I'll never be able to buy another car this size with a V8 so my next car will likely have a V6 which is fine or (sad to think a 4 cylinder if that's all they have) but over time, I would get used to it and probably like it. Few could argue that the FORD model T was a good car. I doubt FORD could sell many in it's orginal form since it could not operate on the interstate. It would be nice if CROWN had stayed in business and came out with a new version of the skoolie. It would have likely been a rear engine design but it still would have had the structural strength that made it a legend.
I notice even the US government is selling off buses made in 2003 they are saying they are unserviceable sold with a end users certificate to be scraped the one in SC for sale now is a 2003 Blue Bird LTC 40 commuter with a M11 Cummins not a school bus a nice bus to be scraped out plenty of life left
Simply; the old stuff is cool, it's becoming rarer and rarer as the days go by, and it gives some of us joy to keep it working.
I have a piano that was made 120 years ago. Unlike anything made today, it stays in perfect tune and only needs tuning every 10 years. It sounds sweeter than any piano I've ever played, and it's unobtainium. Everyone who sits at it and plays goes "wow!" And when I see an old piano headed to the dump, I usually grab it and find it a home, because pianos like that just aren't made anymore and they just shouldn't be junked.
Old piano, old house, old bus, old car... and occasionally people like an old school buddie of mine, who for no reason other than he liked them, started collecting junky old 1957 T-birds back in highschool (60's) and restoring them.. the guy retired by selling half of his collection 20 years ago! He bought a bunch of them in the 60's for $200 to $500 each, the ones he still has are worth more like $60k each...
Wish I'd have seen that light....
For me, the old Crown is a jewel. It's well over 50 years old now ('62) and still has it's original engine, runs like a top, makes no black smoke, gets 10MPG doing 70, and uses virtually zero oil. Can you guys say that about your new machines?
That said, as mentioned in some of the above posts, not much besides the engine (Cummins 220) is old anymore, and even the engine has a turbo, a giant radiator, a plastic fan, new injectors and a freightliner air cleaner that certainly did not come with it as original equipment... It has a 2004 rear axle with a Telma bolted to it, a '78 front axle and power steering gearbox, a 2008 fully synchronized Eaton 6 speed with a dual plate ceramic puck clutch, new brakes and tires.. and after next month it'll even a new roof made of aluminum instead of the old rusty steel roof it came with. Basically it's an old looking bus sitting on very recent running gear. But it's the old coolness that kicks butt over any new bus. I get "wow that's awesome" comments at every fuel station I stop at. People love to hang out inside with me. It takes perfect care of me anywhere I go, and it gets there with zero issues every time in the 50K miles I've put on it. And guess what? If someone pops a big EMP off someday, it'll still start and run which is less than I can say about 99% of the rest of the vehicles out there today (which probably means I won't be able to go anywhere anyway due to the roads being blocked with a non-operable mess!)
Bottom line? I, and everyone else who loves the oldies, do it simply because as I said, it brings me joy. And that's what life is about I think...
:)
Here's something from an old poet named Henry Miller. I think it says it all...
"But there is a class of hardy men, old-fashioned enough to have remained rugged individuals, openly contemptuous of the trend, passionately devoted to their work, impossible to bribe or seduce, working long hours, often without reward or fame, who are motivated by a common impulse - the joy of doing as they please. At some point along the way they separated from the others. The men I speak of can be detected at a glance: their countenance registers something far more vital, far more effective, than the lust for power. They do not seek to dominate, but to realize themselves. They operate from a centre which is at rest. They evolve, they grow, they give nourishment just by being what they are, . . To live beyond the pale, to work for the pleasure of working, to grow old gracefully while retaining one's faculties, one's enthusiasm, one's self-respect, one has to establish other values than those endorsed by the mob. It takes an artist to make a breach in the wall. An artist is primarily one who has faith in himself. He does not respond to the normal stimuli: he is neither a drudge nor a parasite. He lives to express himself and in so doing enriches the world."
Quote from: CrabbyMilton on May 06, 2014, 03:40:41 AM
It would be nice if CROWN had stayed in business and came out with a new version of the skoolie. It would have likely been a rear engine design but it still would have had the structural strength that made it a legend.
They did (sort of). It was the Series II Supercoach, with a rear 6V92 and all the strength and quality of the twinkie-shaped mid-engine Crowns of the same era. Had Crown not been shut down by General Electric ("We Bring Good Things To Life") in 1991, it would probably have moved forward with designs based more on the Super II. However, the last Crown made was a mid-engine twinkie for Carpenteria.
Here's one of LAUSD's Super IIs: LAUSD School Bus #6280 Crown Bus at Soto st (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH69uYibi_0#)
And here's one of Rialto's: Rialto Unified School District #B-53 (Crown Coach Corporation) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HNhteBRvfM#)
That's what I have - lots of underfloor storage space, and the same driveline as an MC9 so it drives well. Not your typical skoolie!
John
Oops - the clips have replicated themselves. Sorry!
I have that CROWN book and saw those. You pic won't come up on this PC so I'll try when I get home. I fyou want to blame GE that's fine but if the market wasn't there I don't think anyone could have kept them going. GILLIG built similar designs and they discontinued them as well.