Had the pleasure of meeting Luke and Bill and Bill this week when we went to US Coach to have some work done. Spent about 3 and 1/2 days there so got a chance to get to know them.....great bunch of guys, nice to put faces to names, happy with the work that they did for me. ;D
Well Ed are your going to keep us in suspence, or you going to tell us what you had done to your Bus ;D
This is sort of funny. I called Luke this week to see if he had the fuel sender for a 5a. He said he had one for a 9 and would compare it to the one in the 5a from Arizona that he had in the shop. I missed his call Friday with the information, so I will speak to him Monday. I was wondering later if the 5a he had was yours since you have been traveling quite a bit.
Luke working on Friday what is the world coming too ::)
Nope, it was Thursday that I missed his call so he won't be back till Monday. He calls it semi-retirement!
Yup that was us Lin. He said that he had a call about a 5A needing a fuel sender and Bill was asking if i had ever taken the panel covering the tank off and where the sender was located. Told i did about 8 years ago but don't remember where it was located on the tank. Told him he could pull the panel and take a look if he wanted but they were busy trying to get us out of there so they could get another bus in. Andy, gave it a tune up, changed tranny fluid, changed over from oil hubs to grease hubs as i have had one that had been giving me problems. The rest of it was just a few little things that needed attention....a switch here, a wire there, etc.
Hey Ed, isn't Luke clear up in NJ? didn't know you were up that far north.
Did they put trans fluid in your transmission or engine oil? I let Chattanooga garage put engine oil (I think it was 10-30) in mine and so far I'm very happy.
Dave
Ed
You were pretty close to us at Luke's.....if you are still in the NE and need a place to stay a few days, I've got room for another MCI and could plug you in!
Would love to see you again, it's been a year since Blytheville...
Bruce
Dave, i had transynd put in the tranny a few years back, replaced it with the same. Bruce, we are just a little west of Luke's right now. Stopped in an rv park for the nite and the next day the bus wouldn't fire up. Changed a couple of battery cables that looked a little iffy, didn't make any difference. Batteries were almost 9 years old and had never given me any problems but figured they were about due to be replaced anyway so i did, didn't make any difference. Pulled the starter and took it to a shop and had it rebuilt and just got that sucker back in an hour or so ago, still not firing. Got cleaned up and went for a walk and to think about it and then got on here and saw the post about taking the end cap off and using a stick or screw driver to engage the starter. Might try that later today or tomorrow morning, just don't feel like doing any more today after wrasseling with that thing for a couple of hours.
Oh yah, Bruce, if it hadn't acted up we would probably be in Indiana right now.
Forget about the broom handle more than likely you cannot remove the plug or the bell housing is in the way,buy your self a remote starter switch from Autozone or others for 15 ucks. Then you don't need to be under the bus, hook it to main cable and the start terminal on the solenoid then you can stand out side the compartment push the botton and start it you probably have a bad starter relay or a low voltage relay bad
good luck
Clifford's right.
That remove the end cap trick only works on those weird GM buses.
Bob
Ed- I assume you took care of all the regular mistakes. Transmission in neutral, battery disconnect, rear switch, made sure the solenoid is getting current from the switch, no broken wires around the starter like the ones to the neutral safety switch, or even that the neutral safety switch is working.
Tranny is in neutral, battery disconnect is on, rear switch was just replaced at Luke's, lots of juice at the solenoid which is brand new, no broken wires around the starter, I know the neutral safety switch is working, if i put it in gear and hit the starter nothing at all happens. Put it back in neutral and hit the switch and it clunks. Does look like i have room to get the cap off of the solenoid. Are remote starter switches voltage sensitive? My starter is 24 volts. Clifford where are those relays located at?
Ed they should be in the rear Junction Box. Should be the starter interlock Relay and the starter Solenoid Relay there. HTH
Dave5Cs
If you have the clunk the relays are good now it becomes a voltage,solenoid or starter problem I know you hooked the batteries in series ? and no the remote starter button is not voltage sensitive. Setting overnight and won't start man I hope it is not internal it doesn't take much water or fuel to lock one up
good luck
Ed, where are you headed this summer? We'll be wandering out west somewhere, don't know where yet.
Linda, we have people in a couple of places in Montana that we want to spend some time with. After that will probably end up in Western WA. visiting friends in our old home towns. From there we will just wander around on our way back towards AZ. Maybe our roads will cross. ;D
Quote from: Ed Hackenbruch on May 03, 2014, 01:31:38 PM
Are remote starter switches voltage sensitive? My starter is 24 volts.
Ed, remote starter switches are not voltage sensitive.
TOM
Good to hear the remote starter switches don't care about voltage. :) Just now i was looking at my starter and noticed that the solenoid has 12v stamped on the base....shouldn't that be a 24 v solenoid or does it matter? Seems to me that it would but electrical stuff is my weakest point! ;D
Needs to be 24 volt Ed, even with the 12v solenoid it should have fired did the rebuilder install the ground wire from the solenoid to the lug on the back of the starter ?
Ed
You need to look at the battery voltage when you try to start and get the clunk, if the battery voltage stays around 24v then something is open in the starter path. If the voltage drops a lot when you get the clunk then Clifford could be right and the engine is locked for some reason.
Hope you find it!
Ed you stated in your above post,"The rest of it was just a few little things that needed attention....a switch here, a wire there, etc. "
Was it anything to do with the starter circuit or rear start panel etc. Just wondering.
Dave
I guess I am unsure about the sound that you are getting when trying to start, and that could make a big difference. A clunk, to my way of thinking, is pretty dramatic like the starter engaging. It that were happening and the engine not turning, you should get a significant voltage drop. You would even see that on your dash gauge as you hit the starter. A click or a slap could be a relay.
You did mention that they changed something in the rear panel. If the starter is not engaging, it may be worthwhile to see if any of the wires there came loose. I have sometimes found that problems that appear directly after some service or repair have something to do with that work.
Have you tried starting it from the rear panel and if so is it the same sound or something different?
Dave
Clifford, ground wire is hooked up, gonna call the rebuilder and talk to him about the 12v solenoid. Bruce i don't have a voltmeter, need to get one. Engine is making a partial rotation but not very much at a time. Even though they are brand new batteries it just sounds/feels like they are low. Going to take them back to Napa and have them test them. Maybe i got a bad one. Dave and Lin, they did replace the start switch in the rear panel, will have to take a look at it. Went thru and cleaned up all of the cable ends and bulkhead connecters that i could find, still nothing.
Well, it would seem if you are getting a partial rotation, the switches and relays are doing their job. That would send you back to looking at the batteries, starter, and cables. You do need a multimeter; a cheap digital one is fine. Have you tried jumping one of your start bats with your car or house bats?
We did try starting with jumper cables directly from the batteries to the starter so as to bypass everything else, still no go. Like i said i am suspicious of one of the batteries being bad.....will find out tomorrow.
What I meant was to use the house bank, a car, or both to jump the start batteries. I have found that when the start batteries are low, just boosting one of the 12v batteries works.
had this confusing me 3 days ago on a bike.....relay clicked...good voltage no startter.....was a bad ground from bat "-" to cable. thought it was something in the "+" cables contacts etc for a bit then felt the heat on the bat "-"terminal.
kicked myself for not catching troubleshooting 101: bad ground. in my case the connection was tight but unseen surface corrosion was blocking the path.
Ed any new news? Batteries etc.? ;D
Dave
The little guy is quite today Dave I hope he has minor problems
I'm back!!!!!!! Long day today, just got done about an hour ago. Decided to just go ahead and have new cables made up even though the used ones didn't look too bad. Figured that would be one less thing that might be part of the problem. Had to go to several places/towns before i found a place that had 0000 cable. Had them make up 4 for the battery box. $$$$ Forgot about the 2 in the engine compartment so made another trip back for them. $$$ Took the starter back out and took it to the rebuilder and he changed the solenoid to 24v and tested the starter to make sure it was ok. Took the batteries back to Napa and had them check them out, both were fine. Went to a bunch of places to get a digital multimeter, only place that had one was Pep Boys and they only had the one. Got to thinking about it and decided to replace the starter solenoid too so went to Napa, (again) and had to order one....said it will be in by 8 am tomorrow. After putting the batteries back in with the new cables and putting that GD!! starter in again all i have to do is put the solenoid in and then try it.......fingers are crossed,... we don't want to have to become NJ residents! ;D Thought that the starter would go back in a little easier and faster the second time but nope it fought me the whole time and took just as long even though i had a couple of ideas to try to make it quicker. Got quite the workout both times and i am tired, bruised, scraped, and cut but at least i didn't get smashed or pinched fingers although i was fully expecting that. Took a shower, ate dinner, and now i am going to bed......good nite. ;D
Keeping our fingers crossed for ya's. Will think positive thoughts for you too ;D Hopefully you guys are in a campground and not on the side of the road somewhere or in Morristown NJ or Patterson. Not fun places...
Dave
When you get to Washington go to Blanchard Electric in Bremerton and you can buy a 39MT for 250 bucks you can hold it up with 1 hand :P
No kidding. I made an adapter to use my floor jack to put my starter in!! Yikes.
Those suckers are heavy laying on your back the 42mt weighs 58 lbs the 50MT weighs 79 lbs and the 39 MT weighs a mere 30 lbs and can be used in place of both the older starters the only way to go at my age is 39MT ::)
Quote from: luvrbus on May 05, 2014, 06:05:21 PM
When you get to Washington go to Blanchard Electric in Bremerton and you can buy a 39MT for 250 bucks you can hold it up with 1 hand.
Ah, but are they available for LH engines?
???
Dave, we are in a campground near Elmer NJ. Clifford, the whole time i was trying to get that thing in i was thinking about the 39MT and wishing i had one. For that price i might pick one up for a spare but then again this one should last for longer than we plan on keeping the bus. :) One of the problems that i had was i had the airbags down for leveling in our site so only had room to slide the starter under and get it up on a block. After that i had to pull it up from the top one end at a time and try to slide more blocks/wedges under it while holding it in place with one hand. Scott, only wish that i was on concrete or even have a piece of plywood to use a floor jack on,...would have made life a lot easier! Did i mention that i was on a slight slope and a couple of times the starter slipped off of the blocks so i had to start all over? >:(
If this had happened along side of the road i would have gotten hauled back to Luke's. As it is i have my doubts that a lowboy could get in the driveway to this place much less get back out with us on it.
No home depots? 1/3 sheet of 3/4's would do it. Darn. Our campground had a maintenance yard with lots of stuff that never got used. Tell them you have about 2800 bus owners that like to camp and are watching this thread and I will bet they can find what you need.
Dave
Dave5Cs from Galaxy S III
Only thing is i don't carry my floor jack with me, not enough room and have never needed it before so it stays in our storage unit in Yuma while we travel in the spring and summer.
I am going to make a place on the bay ceiling for ours I think after following your post. Note to self always carry at least one piece of thick ply and my floor jack in Bus!... 8)
Dave5Cs
Did you give up or give out ED ?
Clifford I think he is thinking, eating, or sleeping. He might be changing the Bandages!... :o
Dave5Cs
Closer to giving out than giving up! Stiff and sore and moving around like an old man.......Wait!! i am an old man, at least the kids and grandkids think so. Just for the heck of it i called around for prices on a 39MT. Locally $350-$400, Blanchard is now $309.95 + the shipping so would end up about the same. Had Jim Shepherd on the phone for quite awhile yesterday running me thru a lot of tests on everything and we are basically down to the main cable running thru the bus to the back or there is just something else wrong with the starter. Cleaned up the last couple of contacts on the back of the master disconnect knife switch and am going to give it one more try this morning. If it still doesn't work i am going to buy a 39MT and see if that solves it. If not then maybe a new cable, at the cost of what the other cables were i figure the new starter will be cheaper. :)
Ed I suggest you use a 1-1/2 socket on the cam or crank and be sure you can turn the engine then you know you are chasing the right rabbit. I would also bypass the master switch and try it, If you jump across the 2 lugs from the hot cable to the starter bypassing the solenoid you can tell easy if the starter is spinning or not
Time to bar the bear over!...
Dave5Cs from Galaxy S III
No room for a socket, the bumper is too close, but did get a wrench and cheater bar on it and turned it over for a while, seems to be fine. Have jumped the starter several times, it turns but bogs down quickly.....just got back from trying to get a 39MT, nobody has one in stock, had to order it, will pickup tomorrow morning. Gonna take the rest of the day off and probably go talk to Luke and the Boys and see what they think.
Ed have you tried starting it from the rear panel yet and if so is it the same result? did you get the solenoid back yet from the rebuild shop? Just wondering.
Dave Walker
Dave, got the starter back with the right solenoid on it and put it back in and same results. That is why i am buying a new starter tomorrow. ;D
Ed just a question in my mind. Why did you have the rear start button replaced, Was it locked up or?
Dave, they noticed that the rear toggle switch was a little "wonky", (my term) so replaced it.
Its Alive!!!!! :o The new starter fired right off! ;D Thanks to all of you for the questions, suggestions, and moral support. We are headed out in about 5 minutes, going west!!!
That shop wasn't much of a starter re builder Ed ::)
"That shop wasn't much of a starter re builder Ed"
Is that what you call an understatement?
Quote from: luvrbus on May 08, 2014, 10:38:49 AM
That shop wasn't much of a starter re builder Ed ::)
Yeah, and they "tested" it and claimed their rebuild was good. Bet it spun like a beast when not under a load.
Update, so far we have started the bus 5 times today, twice before we left and 3 times during our trip......kinda held our breath each time but she fired right off just like normal. All is well in our house tonite!
Ed, Kind of like Foot Loose and Fancy Free eh!... Enjoy ;D
Dave
Got to give a big shoutout to a few folks, Jim Shepherd spent several hours on the phone with me trying to narrow down what the problem was.....Thanks Jim! Also one to Luke and the Boys at US Coach, if the new starter had not solved the problem they were going to come out after work today and troubleshoot it.....Thanks guys!!!! ;D
Congrats Ed, lvmci...
glad ur on the road again....this thread does beg the question of how to bench test a starter with a load. I have been fooled a few times into installing a starter that spun and engaged well on the bench only to have it fail when meeting the resistance of an engine.....Any suggestions?