We will be parked for the summer in St. Ignace, MI and working at the Castle Rock campground. While I was driving north I was dreaming of doing a rebuild of my cooling system. I don't know that anything is wrong, but i think of this more like preventative maintenance.
Im thinking of pulling the blowers out, and pulling the radiators. There's a radiator shop in Petoskey, I think they can flush, rod, or repair any weak spots. Maybe they'll find my radiators are perfect, but I want to know.
When I first bought the bus I overheated and shut down because the bracket that is lifted by the air cylinder to tighten the belt broke right at the cylinder attachment. I want to replace that bracket with a new one ( right now it is welded)
While everything is out I want to clean up and repair all the metal, give it some fresh paint, and put everything together properly.
I probably will even replace the antifreeze. I'll also replace the belt.
Need advice about maybe installing an additional digital gauge. Louvers? Water mist system?
Any other related things within this project that I should consider? Anyone else do this? Pictures? Ideas?
Dave
P.S. My gauge is the original MCI gauge. It shows, 100 - 180 - 240
During the drive, the needle always sits right on the 180. On the hot day (about 80 outside) driving up hill, the gauge moved up to the high side of 180 (how much movement is that? I have no idea).
That is why I want to be sure everything is working right.
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For your mister system pump you could use the windshield washer pump off a wrecked truck. I would assume they would have slightly more capacity than a Honda Civic.
Your system as you describe is functioning properly. Don't try to fix what ain't broke. If I were you, I would just sit on the bench and have a beer instead.
JC
Dave - thats a lot of money to spend on something that is working. Plus Im sure youll find something else broke that costs 3 times more than the radiator to fix like a craked frame or something. Im with JC - go for the beer :)
I would replace the gauge though. I have something similar that shows 180 and 210 with nothing in between...no marks or anything.
-Sean
I have thought about the same think but as my system is working as it should .What I did was free up and lube all the movement points at the air piston and I now carry a new spare belt for the blower ( it was hard to get 3 week wait ) . Glad I was not on the road waiting for a belt .
dave
My idea of preventive maintenance is doing things like cleaning, lubing, adjusting, changing fluids, etc. It really doesn't sound like you need to rebuild the system. There are strips available for testing the coolant. Do you have a mechanical gauge on the engine to compare your dash gauge to? Do you know what your gauge was reading when you shut down for heat? If it is accurate and you know what high heat looks like on it, it is fine to keep using it. If something is wrong with it or you would like one calibrated differently, then switch it out.
I must admit though that I can be accused of being lazy.
There is nothing wrong with rebuilding systems that have been in place for many miles and show no sign of failure, as Tikvah states preventative work is worthwhile and will pay off down the road. Don't forget to put in an high efficiency fan blade.
When he gets through pulling all the stuff on a MCI and renting a piece of equipment to handle the upper part he may wish he left it alone not a job for the faint of heart ::)
I don't understand, especially from those of you who seem to love to tinker.
Luvrbus, what equipment would need to be rented? Why would my heart faint? This looks rather easy, even for me.
Treeplanter, what is a high efficiency fan blade?
One of my biggest worries is that welded bracket on the lift that tightens the belt. If that breaks again.....
You all seem to know of some hidden danger or grand project, and I'm looking at a few days of amateur tinkering. What am I missing?
That sucker is heavy and hard to remove and a fork lift makes it easier go for it is all I can say
Quote from: luvrbus on April 29, 2014, 06:50:13 AM
That sucker is heavy and hard to remove and a fork lift makes it easier go for it is all I can say
You mean the gearbox between the blowers is that heavy?
Is that the only caution?
The complete blower assembly come out as 1 piece
A fan blade that will draw in more air than the stock factory blade, they have more blades, advanced design equals better cooling.http://www.hortonww.com/en-us/products.aspx. (http://www.hortonww.com/en-us/products.aspx.)
That makes sense....my MCI has squirl cage fans, not blade fans. I doubt there is any Pratical upgrade. I can imagine changing pulley sizes, but that shouldn't be necessary.
Any thoughts on dash-mounted digital temperature gauge?
I like analogue gauges or an analogue wristwatch. That's probably partly because of habit, but also because I am generally not looking for true precision. On the other hand, I prefer a digital multimeter because I do want to be more precise. Using that logic, a digital temperature gauge would be a good thing. I do not think I will be changing mine soon, but if I was looking for a new temp gauge, I would definitely lean toward favoring accuracy over habit and aesthetics.
Lin, I fully agree with you. I would still love to find some analog lighted dash clocks, but maybe 4" or more. Rare, and expensive. I'm not usually interested in absolute accuracy, even with speed. But knowing if the temp is 185 or 190 makes a difference.
Jim and Wendy upgraded their cooling system recently and described the work pretty well in their blog and I believe on the BusNut sight. mightybus@wordpress or ask your question on busnut maybe he will help.
Dave,
I would recommend looking on the inside lower corners of your radiators for corrosion of the fins. My 102A3 has corrosion on the radiators there. I will be pulling them and getting them re-cored before taking any significant trip. The fins provide support for the tubes and once they start to corrode you risk blowing out your tubes. I think most folks know that heat is a very big enemy of a detroit. That's just my 2-cents.
I know many folks talk about a mist system, since I have fixed my OTR a/c I plan on putting in an emergency over ride that will allow me to force on the heater core while the a/c is running. In theory I will be able to use my a/c system to discharge some of the heat rapidly. It may start to get a bit uncomfortable inside but better than overheating the engine. Just some of my thoughts.
I just saw this thread. You've probably seen my page on this, but if not, FYI...
http://www.gumpydog.com/Bus/MC9_WIP/Mechanical/Radiators_And_Blowers/radiators_and_blowers.htm (http://www.gumpydog.com/Bus/MC9_WIP/Mechanical/Radiators_And_Blowers/radiators_and_blowers.htm)
Quote from: 86102A3 on May 10, 2014, 07:40:10 AM
I know many folks talk about a mist system, since I have fixed my OTR a/c I plan on putting in an emergency over ride that will allow me to force on the heater core while the a/c is running. In theory I will be able to use my a/c system to discharge some of the heat rapidly. It may start to get a bit uncomfortable inside but better than overheating the engine. Just some of my thoughts.
Wouldn't running the A/C be the last thing you want to do if your bus is overheating? Wouldn't the compressor put extra load on the system?
For cars they tell you to turn off the A/C if you start overheating, but that may be more due to the condenser and radiator being stacked next to each other.
Having done what you're considering, I would do the seals around the radiators first. If that doesn't fix it just do the radiators. Pulling that squirrel cage assembly is a nightmare and getting back in is just as hard. Doing the seals will probably fix it all.
Rick
Just as a data point, I've been looking into one of these digital temperature sensor/alarms to put a little finer detail on my temperature management. There's a "marine" model with two sensors - port and starboard that I would use for the left and right sides of my 8V-71 natural. It has a thermocouple that bolts to the block (or head, or wherever you want to measure) and has adjustable alarms for each sensor. I like the idea of having a hard number to make a decision with regarding temps. Here's a link to their site. I'm not selling them and have no connection. Just thought other bus folks might appreciate this.
http://enginewatchdog.com/tm4.html (http://enginewatchdog.com/tm4.html)
Treeplanter (NAME??) -
Up until the D/E Series, MCI's had squirrel cage blowers, not radiator fans like your GMC. The D-Series have dual, belt-driven fans, E-Series and later have systems similar to Prevost & Eagle - large side radiator with a big fan.
Brian -
The standard advice for turning off your A/C when your car starts overheating is because the condenser sits in front of the radiator, thus dumping additional hot air into the engine's cooling system when the A/C is running. This isn't an issue with a coach, as you know, the condenser is not in the engine compartment. The load imposed on the engine by the compressor can easily be handled by slowing down and downshifting - which is probably part of the overheating problem in the first place.
86102A3 (NAME??) -
You don't need to install an emergency override to force on the heater core while the OEM A/C is running, it's already there! Simply turn up the cabin thermostat - that's all there is to it! MCI's A/C system runs "full on" when in A/C mode, and the temperature is automatically regulated by adding heat to the cold air coming off the evaporator. Thus turning up the thermostat dumps more heat into the cabin, and now you're using that big old heater core as a supplemental radiator. Of course, slowing down and downshifting to the next lower gear will help tremendously, unless there's a mechanical failure of the cooling system, and that's a whole different ballgame.
Tikvah (NAME??) -
I tend to agree with Clifford and Rick - leave the squirrel cages alone (unless you can find a set of OEM from an MC-9 that came with an 8V92TA) - just clean and lubricate everything well. The welded bracket you're concerned with, if welded properly, is probably stronger than the original. If you do pull anything, just pull the radiators themselves. And if you want to go crazy, replace them with the thicker units that came with the above-mentioned 8V92TA-equipped coaches. As also stated, make sure you seal around the radiators well, so that all the incoming air passes thru them, not around. If you do decide to pull the blower/gearbox assembly, follow Clifford's advice and use a forklift to get it in/out - but if it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Yes, a smaller diameter pulley will increase the air flow, finding one becomes the challenge.
Here's a link to an outfit that has combination digital/analog gauges, which might be exactly what you're looking for. Fast Fred on the BNO BBS mentioned them as his source for new gauges in his Flx:
http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/ (http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/)
Finally, to those of you who I put (NAME??) after your handle, please take a minute to update your forum profile info to at least include your first name in a signature line. It really helps us include you more personally in our crazy little busnut family. Simply click on Profile in the tabs above, then when the next screen pops up, click on Forum Profile Info and follow the prompts. And if you haven't already, adding your home-base city/state plus coach make/model/powertrain also helps us better refer you to local parts & service sources. Thanks!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Thanks RJ,
I am hoping that I will not need that boost once I have the radiators rebuilt. I have not had any overheating issues yet, but I also have not driven up a long grade or through any deserts. Only long trip I have been on was getting the bus home from Alabama to florida.
Dave,
Your gauge is marked with the normal operating temp. Probably represents 180-195. Everything I've read says diesels operate most efficiently at 195. Most like the lower temps around 180. It appears yours is functioning as designed.
I too take the position of preventative maintenance is good. My program is a little better than "Call Luke or Clifford". I would however not hesitate to call Clifford if I was stumped or just needed some advice. I also think Emergency Road Service means just that. Not a substitute for poor maintenance.
An old aviation idiom... PPPPPP.... Proper planning prevents piss poor Performance! I don't know about yours, but I think Frankie wouldn't enjoy busin if I was always reacting to problems instead of enjoying ourselves.