Wondering if y'all could post pics of underneath storage ideas and plumbing, holding tank set ups looking at redoing mine just wanting to get some ideas before i get started
Thanks
What bus model do you have?
Tom 1955 beck
Does your Beck have underfloor bays, or is it just empty space behind the bodyside skirts? Both Tom and I have made underfloor storage bays and hung tanks under the floor because our buses never originally had big bays like MCIs etc., so we may have some ideas if that is what you want to do. Is your Beck a pusher, a mid-engine or a FE? (That's hugely pertinant to what you need to know.)
John
Under bay storage plenty of room and is a pusher
As has been said so many times, a bus conversion is designed around its toilet! Here's the thinking behind my conversion:
On the basis that the dump valves should be ahead of the left rear wheels (to suit most dump stations), that can determine where the poo and grey tanks sit. To absolutely prevent cross-contamination of the fresh water it's prudent to have the fresh tank(s) well away from the waste tanks. Because the fresh and gray tanks are more likely to have significant weight in them, they should be mounted on the bus's centerline. The heaviest weight in tanks and batteries should be nearer the rear axle than the front. Any propane should be stored within the wheelbase and in a well-ventilated separate fire-resistant compartment. Anything that can leak downward (LPG, water, battery acid) should be open to the ground to avoid problems. Gray and poo tanks each have two vents, to help air flow through them while driving and when stopped. Put in the biggest tanks you have space for, and room for the most batteries you think you'll ever need - when have you heard a busnut complaining about having too much of anything? And lastly but not leastly, everything must be easily accessible for repairs/upgrades/modification/tinkering.
With these ideas, everything is falling nicely into place as I get close to finishing all the essential support systems under the floor. The interior will be easy in comparison!
John
Here is a pic of my fresh water. Tank is raised in the back (center of bus) to drain better. Tom
Here is a pic of my black/gray tank. The 1" line is a shower drain, and the 1" over the fresh tank is my kitchen sink drain. They both run to a common trap. Sorry pic needs rotated. Tom
Where is the best place to get holding tanks, don't really need a tank for clean water I will always be hooked to a hose, just mainly using it for camping for family
Thanks
Grant
I think it would be a mistake not to put in a fresh water tank. Some of the best camping spots do not have hook ups. A 24" x 24" x 48" tank will hold 60gal. We have a 130gal fresh water tank and if my wife and I are very careful can go a week with showers and washing dishes. On my truck, I'm using 196gal water tank (two 98gal tanks tied together), 115gal gray water and 69gal black water.
What part of the country are you in? I got my tanks custom made at http://www.ronco-plastics.com/ (http://www.ronco-plastics.com/) . By picking up at the factory, I got 50% off catalog price. Good Luck, TomC
In our Eagle we have a ton of bay space. So our layout may be different then what will work for you. Our goal in setting up the plumbing was to put the largest tanks that I could in a single bay for fresh and gray. Without having to build our own tanks the largest pre-made tanks we could find were 115 gallons from Ronco. The black tank went in its own bay in the back. Again - Having a suburban model with 2 extra bays allowed us to do this.
More Pics .....
last few pics.... Sorry guys, usually I use tapatalk but I am posting from my laptop today. One thing to note about the water pump shown in the picture, I had to rearrange the plumbing as the pump would not pump water when it dropped below the height of the pump. I put the pump on the floor and have not had problems since. -Sean
Quote from: TomC on April 15, 2014, 07:25:39 AM
I think it would be a mistake not to put in a fresh water tank. Some of the best camping spots do not have hook ups. A 24" x 24" x 48" tank will hold 60gal. We have a 130gal fresh water tank and if my wife and I are very careful can go a week with showers and washing dishes. On my truck, I'm using 196gal water tank (two 98gal tanks tied together), 115gal gray water and 69gal black water.
What part of the country are you in? I got my tanks custom made at http://www.ronco-plastics.com/ (http://www.ronco-plastics.com/) . By picking up at the factory, I got 50% off catalog price. Good Luck, TomC
Actually a 24 x 24.5 x 48" rectangular tank with 3/8" walls will hold 110 gallons: http://www.ronco-plastics.com/newRonco/product_details.php?prodID=323 (http://www.ronco-plastics.com/newRonco/product_details.php?prodID=323) I have two of these, interconnected to keep the weight balanced side-to-side. Having your own supply of fresh water on board will
hugely increase your options - why would anyone only want to go where there was a guaranteed supply of fresh water? Think of all the fun places you could go to that don't have a convenient water spigot! Plus, if something bad happens (earthquake, tornado, hurricane, etc.), you'll have the means to survive comfortably - without water you're screwed.
John
I'm in raleigh, south 30 min
Near gene Lewis
Thks will look at pics tonight when I get home
Thanks
Grant
Grant - We have found that many great state parks (Big Bend, Zion National....) have dry camping only. You'll be missing out if you don't carry fresh water. Also - There is nothing better than pulling off to the side of the road or rest area in the middle of your trip to have lunch and go potty without having to pull into a restaurant or parking lot. Fresh water is a must have for many reasons.
-Sean
Fulltiming somewhere in the USA
1984 Eagle 10S
www.herdofturtles.org (http://www.herdofturtles.org)
K home now
Will add a water tank good point
Is it good to have one tank for black and grey combined or?
Just trying to keep it simple as possible and easy to work on if needed down the road
Thanks for the pics great organization
I use one tank for the gray black and it is matched with size of my water tank, 125 gals it works well for me.
Black and Gray combined is not a bad thing. Gray water smells just as bad if not worse than black. Also with them being combined you have less chance of "buildup" in your black tank which might happen if you leave it open for a length of time while connected to sewer on hot summer days (it can dry out)
-Sean
Fulltiming somewhere in the USA
1984 Eagle 10S
www.herdofturtles.org (http://www.herdofturtles.org)
We have a combined black/gray tank and had the same setup on our last coach. It works fine, but you should make sure that you install a gray water bypass of some sort that will let you divert the gray water to the outside rather than into the tank. We have dry camped many times and ran a hose for the gray water to feed a tree or bush. If you are at the same place for a while, it is relatively easy to pure more fresh water into the system. However, you will generally have to move or even travel to find a dump station for the waste tank.
I always have the black and gray separate. True the gray can smell, but a cup or two of bleach will kill the odor. Never want to put bleach in the black tank-mixing with the Ammonia from urine will create Chlorine gas. You'll fill the gray tank faster then the black. Then you can dump the gray easier if needed then dumping the tank if the gray and black were combined. Good Luck, TomC
What's the purpose I see of putting plywood down in bay areas, easy to mount stuff to or ?
Personally I would not do untreated plywood on the floors unless you primed it and then gave it a good coat of exterior latex or oil based paint. If a holding tank leak should occur then untreated plywood could become saturated with water or sewer. In an enclosed bay it would stink and take a long time to dry. I like gloss white as it makes the bays look brighter and is easier to clean when glossy. If you must cushion your holding tanks look for some sheet rubber.
One option to keep in mind when designing your bays / tanks is going with a composting toilet.
This gets rid of the need for a black tank, and all the 3" dump hoses too - letting you dump your grey tank through much smaller hoses.
And with no water wasted for flushing - your water supply will last a lot longer too.
We have several friends who have gone this way - and swear by it. It certainly has a lot of advantages.
Cheers,
- Chris
Thks y'all will stay away from plywood and use what is there and also what would y'all say about doing away with propane heater I'm not a fan of propane at all rather use electric heat or wood stove would be cool in bus but no room though
That is a gem of a bus you are converting to a rv I would have to think a long time before I did it only 36 ever built. I love those old Becks I have a friend in Houston that is restoring a BM-37 his is number 2 of 66 the anniversary model has a 743 Cummins 165 hp engine neat buses to make into a motor home :-\
good luck
If you have your loo directly over the poo tank, and if you have a low-flush loo (like the Dometic 310 that uses only a pint or two to flush), your water consumption will be less than if you have a loo further from the tank that's connected by a sloping pipe. (That's what I meant when I said earlier that bus conversions are often designed around their loos, which relates to where the poo tank can go.)
One more consideration for the two-tank folk: have three dump valves - one on the poo tank, one on the gray tank, and the third next to the slinky connection. This way you can back-flush half your gray water into the poo tank to help clean it. Another thing I've done is to have a separate 3/4" outlet about 1" above the bottom of the gray tank (to prevent any chunks from getting sucked into it) to supply a cheapo impeller-type bilge pump that will move excess gray water into the poo tank. Because the gray tank will probably fill quicker than the poo tank, even if you irrigate the plants with gray water, this way you can reduce the amount in the gray tank and also add liquid to the poo tank to prevent "clumping" in there. I put this extra inlet into the poo tank directly above its outlet, so if the dreaded Mound Of Doom is growing down there the gray water should dissolve or soften it. If that doesn't work, I've also got a fresh water inlet that can jet high-pressure city water straight down through this same inlet to blast any turdmounts into shitty oblivion. How's that for a stool softener? Obviously the gray water and fresh water feeds each have their own check valves to prevent backflow, and the top-mount inlet will prevent poo liquid from syphoning out.
Have you noticed that when busnuts start to talk about their conversions, the conversation inevitably gets around to discussing matters fecal. I guess that "waste management" is a Big Thing in our world! Isn't life fun?
John
Grant - I used the plywood in my bays for a couple of reasons. The fresh water and gray water tanks are "boxed" in with plywood. There is nothing holding them in place except the plywood box that is built around them. I can simply pull out the wall and either tank would come right out if I ever had to replace it or fix a leak. For the flooring in the bays it makes it easier to slide things in and out, it is also a layer of insulation in the winter and its easier to screw in shelves, brackets, mounts...etc.
All the wood is treated with wood sealer and painted with oil based exterior paint. I've had lots of water spills and never had problems. 10 years down the road might be a different story but we hope to be in a newer bus by then :) We painted it black so it never looks dirty. And it always gets dirty.
-Sean
Fulltiming somewhere in the USA
1984 Eagle 10S
www.herdofturtles.org (http://www.herdofturtles.org)
In our setup the water tanks are actually under the bed. They hold about 100 gal fresh.
The PO set up a holding tray under the tanks in case one of them leaks, that directs water outside. Which adds a nice bit of additional insurance.
I was originally not thrilled about that, as we would have preferred the under bed storage for other stuff, but that was a minimal compromise. After having had the bus a while and living in it, I actually like the water under the bed. For one, the bed frame and mattress are very heavy, and removing/lifting them would have been very impractical if that was a space we needed regular access to. For another, this leaves us with lots of space in the bays, and which we can configure that as we please.
On that subject, I plan on setting up a tray on bearings/sliders that runs the full (usable) width and length of the bay. That way I can store whatever I want inside the bay and be able to easily access stuff in the middle (which can be a pain to get to) by sliding out the entire floor. There are premade things (called Joey beds I believe), but I could not find one that fits my desired dimensions and I think it'll be a fairly easy thing to assemble with plywood and heavy duty rollers. Anyway, something to consider for access to your bays.
As to the grey vs black split tank thing. Here is my experience. I originally didn't care, as I figured they both dump the same place and the shared capacity is nice, until...
We had been using the bus for a few days, boondocking essentially as we didn't have access to RV parks. We currently don't have sensors on our tanks. We're working on gauging usage to output and manage it that way. Anyway, on the way to learning those limits, and after a few days of showers and dishes, etc; we noticed that the shower (while showering) was no longer draining! Surprise, tanks are full. Now floating in gray water while certainly is no picnic, the alternative possibility was much much worse. So take from that what you will.
Another thought is that I think a separate black gives you greater options if you want to camp without hookups, longer. You use that capacity a lot less than gray.
We had looked at a composting toilet option. One of the buses we were eyeing had that. It does look interesting, but for me it left a lot of questions. It would be interesting to get a real world usage experience.
I completely agree with John on the three dump valve thing! That makes things very easy to deal with -pull crapbay1, open outer dump, wait, pullgreybay2, flush it all out, close valves, put craptube away, done ;D
And another note, invest in a good quality craptube. From my understanding that is a fairly common failure point and after a few uses, I can see why :)
Interesting idea with the overflow connection from gray to black. Might have to see if I can rig a similar thing. Hmmm, more projects ;)
As far as smell, neither tank really has any discernible odor inside or outside the bus, no matter how full they got. I think that is directly attributable to good venting. So I would keep venting both tanks (ours are up through the roof) in mind.
Regards,
George
Thanks for the help guys, this bus has been in my family since the 66 and my uncle converted back then finish in early 70's I just wanting to update it and make it more modern, so a lot of the hard work has been done it's just replacing the old with the new, it's all 110v and has no power inverter only has 2 batteries for cranking and a Onan 8.5 generator but overall the bus is in good shape, it's was a Christian gospel tour bus from 55-63 and then sat for 3 years until my uncle bought, then my dad got it and now I have it, the chassis has around 150k miles on it, but power has been upgraded by my uncle from a 4-71 to s 6v-71 in the 80's the motor was brand new and only has around 30k mikes on motor trans is a 4 spd
Orinally can with 22.5 tires he put 20 on it back then cause they were cheaper now I want to put the 22.5 back on have to find some close by
Thanks for all y'all's help
Grant
Quote from: Geom on April 15, 2014, 09:45:51 PM
We had looked at a composting toilet option. One of the buses we were eyeing had that. It does look interesting, but for me it left a lot of questions. It would be interesting to get a real world usage experience.
We have several friends who absolutely love their composting toilets - they say there is no smell whatsoever and way less hassle than typical liquid black tanks.
Our friend's Nikki and Jason share their experience here:
http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/composting-toilet (http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/composting-toilet)
We have it on our "maybe someday" upgrade list. Sure would free up a lot of space to ditch the black tank and drain hoses...
- Chris
It is an interesting option. Do your friends merely carry the waste in buckets out of their RV. I don't know that carrying buckets of urine through the living area sounds so great though.
I guess the price is a matter of scale, but $900. for something as simple as that seems excessive. Am I missing something?
Guys looks like I will have to deal with a black tank can't afford a 1k $ toilet I live on tha farm I will deal with the smell, but it is a great toilet
Thks for all y'all's help
More ?'s coming
The urine is in a sealed airtight jug if I recall - so there is no slosh or spillage.
I've also seen instructions online for how to build your own composting toilet, so it can be done on a budget.
Cheers,
- Chris
On some composting toilets the urine is evaporated by the fan between empties. so there is no water to get rid of.
Dave5cs
thought on composting toilet with tongue firmly in cheek --
pipe the urine into exhaust when going down the road as urea substitute and get an environmental twofer . . .
:)
edward
Those things are huge in size what is the advantage of space ? no water how does the bowl stay clean and using peat moss are they growing flowers or what ::)
The model our friends have takes up the same space as a regular RV toilet:
http://natureshead.net/ (http://natureshead.net/)
The big space advantage comes from not needing a black tank, and from having your fresh water last a lot longer.
Reportedly it is easier than a regular toilet to keep clean.
And yes - you can use the compost to grow flowers too... :-)
- Chris
That is basically what the boon dockers in Quartszite do with their RV toilets they use a bag with a little hay or peat moss inside their toilets with the bag and take it out and bury it every day or so it works for them but would not be my idea of dry camping fwiw
If you have room for the black water tank and the weight isn't a problem I would definitely go with a conventional RV toilet. Not into have a 'garden nursery' in the bathroom. I guess I am not that big of a 'tree hugger' altho for some it might be the cats meow.
Oh you guys are just a bunch of (wait for it) ............ Party POOPER"S :o
Just had to Do it. :o
Dave5Cs
Believe it or not Home Depot sells the composting toilets
Quote from: luvrbus on April 20, 2014, 08:40:05 AM
That is basically what the boon dockers in Quartszite do with their RV toilets they use a bag with a little hay or peat moss inside their toilets with the bag and take it out and bury it every day or so it works for them but would not be my idea of dry camping fwiw
That is the primitive way to do it.
Our friends with a Nature's Head report that it is a lot easier and simpler than any traditional black tank they've ever had to deal with. They tend to empty the fertilizer chamber just once a month or so - way less frequent than dumping a liquid black tank. And they say there is amazingly no smell at all.
Seems like it would make dry camping a lot easier.
Cheers,
- Chris
Yes is the primitive way but boon dockers are thrifty with a buck a double Wal/Mart bag and they are happy campers ::)