I know I can take her to wwilliams in Grand Rapids, but I'm bringing the coach down to Indiana at some point. Is there a kind soul down there that would take something less than $1000 to run the rack and adjust my governor on our turbo 6v92? I've had offers from a great friend in Western Wisconsin to do it but that's the opposite direction from where we are headed. Just though I would poke club and see what I woke up.
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Scott - the other Scott (Crosby I think?) Lives near Indianapolis and might be able help you out. He has Benny the Bus. I think he posts on Bus Nuts more than here.
-Sean
Fulltiming somewhere in the USA
1984 Eagle 10S
www.herdofturtles.org (http://www.herdofturtles.org)
Thanks Sean! Someone sent me a PM about him too. I'll see if I can connect
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Scott Crosby reached out to me. Thanks SO much Sean and RJ! This is going to make our year! ;D I'm gonna finally learn to run the rack!
Treat the rack like 6 carburetors on a motorcycle and you will be fine ? what makes you think the rack and the governor is off the previous problem you posted about was no smoke or power right
I was going to say that as well - running the rack is about the same as adjusting the valves on a regular old tractor engine, setting the injector height about the same, and adjusting the operating rack is about exactly like synchronizing 6 carbs. You do one side, transfer the adjustment over and do the other side. It can cost a lot because it's physically a pain (in the head, hands, back, knees, if not the arse) and so I literally wear a little helmet to protect my head when I'm doing mine. Getting into the governor is another story, but you shouldn't really have to be adjusting gap, buffer screws etc if the idle and high idle speeds are OK. There is also no reason for the adjustments to go out, except over a 100K miles. It's not like the cam wears out. The adjustments also have a lot more impact at idle than at full power. At idle, the injectors are "opened" about 2% - 3% to get the engine to run, so 1% difference is a 50% difference between 2 and 3, if you see, and you can feel it in the smoothness of the idle. At full power the injectors are opened 100%, so if one is at 99% you won't be able to tell. You set the racks to be identical at full power. So don't necessarily be running the rack to chase a power issue, except to make sure it's OK and can be eliminated.
On race engines, it's really hard to get a good idle for the same reason, sometimes you just can't get the carbs to synchronize. I had one guy who just wanted me to make sure the butterflies were both full open at full throttle and ignore the rest, he wanted it to stall at idle. He said if he wanted it to idle, he had a foot and a throttle pedal, and it only ran at full throttle on the track so nothing else mattered.
Brian
Scott,
I sent you PM.
Steve 5B......
Quote from: luvrbus on March 19, 2014, 01:43:44 PM
Treat the rack like 6 carburetors on a motorcycle and you will be fine ? what makes you think the rack and the governor is off the previous problem you posted about was no smoke or power right
Right Cliff. Low power, no smoke. The weather and my time have finally coincided to allow me to check fuel pressure today. I have the fuel pressure test kit rented and I'm performing the check today. How am I supposed to check it though? Full throttle? Idle?
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Ok. To cover all bases I checked the fuel pressure at idle, fast idle, and full throttle. Full throttle was accomplished using a weight on the fuel pedal so it may not actually be 100% full throttle but it was close. Here are the readings in that order:
Idle:
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F04%2F01%2Fatazu8an.jpg&hash=c674ab667d141d215438d826a116643e665dddaa)
Fast idle:
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F04%2F01%2Fmaga9ape.jpg&hash=7768c5f923d722ed8d8cf844db09966cb2453156)
Full throttle:
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F04%2F01%2Fdy7ypy5a.jpg&hash=df11e048641742c0ebcf9d87bbddc34ba6cedb87)
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sorry, double post.
Those readings look normal
Scott,will the engine rev up fast and come back to idle in the same about of time also when the engine stop is engaged does it stop instantly or take a while ? fuel pressure is good
Quote from: luvrbus on April 01, 2014, 05:58:05 AM
Scott,will the engine rev up fast and come back to idle in the same about of time also when the engine stop is engaged does it stop instantly or take a while ? fuel pressure is good
Thanks LostAgain...and thanks Cliff. Engine stops quickly when stop lever is engaged. Engine idles back down after full throttle quickly. But I can take some video so you can tell me what your thoughts are.
This YouTube I took last summer shows a full throttle push and release:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dWMNFo5Z34 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dWMNFo5Z34)
There was a recent thread by someone with low power (not revving up) that turned out to be a blocked up muffler... Just a thought, since I am planning on changing my muffler and have been looking in catalogs and such.
Brian
It is slow on response either the air gap setting on the governor or the starting aid on the injectors is off JMO hard to diagnose with out having hands on
Quote from: luvrbus on April 01, 2014, 08:59:07 AM
It is slow on response either the air gap setting on the governor or the starting aid on the injectors is off JMO hard to diagnose with out having hands on
Ok. As for someone who said something about a blocked muffler, I have a new one on the coach and actually had been running without one at all and still the low power situation exists. So Cliff, it sounds slow to you? This is a good data point for Scott Crosby who is going to be helping me fix this issue hopefully. He's been super willing. He's in Avon, Indiana and I'm crossing my fingers we can connect and get his hands and eyes and ears on our coach. 20 mph in on the shoulder of the road trying to climb little Michigan hills isn't my idea of fun.
It could be time for a new set of injectors after the waste engine oil ::) the 92 series have spring loaded fuel rods even if the rack is stuck on one injector they still rev up , shut down and sound good but no power
If you need a set of injectors buy from Don @ Quality Injectors in Oakdale Ca he is old school one of the few left that will do the high,medium and low calibrations on the old injectors 209-863-8810 and his prices are good fwiw I been dealing with him for years
good luck
I thought governor gap only affected idle, but it affects a lot more including possibly a low power condition. I couldn't find where the starting aid could affect power output though. It's easy to pull the valve covers off, put the rack in full power with the speed control lever and see if one of the injectors is sticking or not going to full power. My memory is trying to tell me that the spring loaded fingers are sprung so that they let the rest of the injectors go to no-fuel if one sticks open, not let one injector stay closed when the rest go open to full power but I can't remember. Dang, I am fed up with winter, I came so close to going out to the shed to take a valve cover off and look when I remembered that we currently are in a blizzard and have about 6" of fresh snow and blowing a gale...
Brian
GOVERNOR GAP
A properly adjusted governor gap will accomplish the following:
Provide sufficient weight travel in the idle range to prevent stalling during deceleration. A tight gap reduces weight travel in the idle range
Provide enough weight travel in the high speed Control range to prevent engine over-speed with light loads at full throttle. A loose gap reduces weight travel in the high speed range.
Prevent the force generated by the low speed weights (double weight governors) from depressing the high speed Springs If the gap is too tight, the force of the heavy idle weights operating on the high speed spring will cause the high speed spring to depress at too low a speed, resulting in low power
Lol I guess I am one of the few left around that times the injectors,sets the air gap and the starting aid and go from there my starting aid gauges do get a work out on the #2 cylinder on the right bank ::)
When I installed those injectors I got from you I did the exact same thing. Checked all the valves, timed the injectors, set all the rack fingers, checked the gap (it was fine), reset the starting aid and throttle delay and after it was running reset the buffer. Takes a long time crawling up inside a 5C, wearing my little helmet (I have a 1/4" haircut and cut my head on stuff inside that engine compartment all the time). The first time you do it (learning from books, no one to show you) takes a long time, the second time you do it you feel semi-competent, the third time you fly, and when you do it the fourth time two years later it's just like the first time... ;D
Brian
Quote from: Scott Bennett on April 01, 2014, 11:05:58 AM
Ok. As for someone who said something about a blocked muffler, I have a new one on the coach and actually had been running without one at all and still the low power situation exists. So Cliff, it sounds slow to you? This is a good data point for Scott Crosby who is going to be helping me fix this issue hopefully. He's been super willing. He's in Avon, Indiana and I'm crossing my fingers we can connect and get his hands and eyes and ears on our coach. 20 mph in on the shoulder of the road trying to climb little Michigan hills isn't my idea of fun.
Scott I'm 10 miles south of Avon, let me know when you are heading this way and I can take you to Easide welding in Lawrence. They are the best in the business for that type of work in this area. Don't let the name scare you, he's been working on Detriots since the 60's. 317-823 4055 is the number.
Steve 5B.....
Thanks a bunch steve. And Cliff, you may just be right. I'll find out soon enough. I did admit to Scott that I had used motor oil/diesel mix so he has full disclosure. If that ends up being the issue, I'll be in touch about injectors. I'm stalled until I get some pointed help from Scott or some hands on deck. The weather isn't cooperating either...still getting down below freezing at night and low 40's and blowing and rain..snow is forecast too. It's nuts. I'm beginning to hate it up here..