I saw a Nissan pickup Wed with a 5.0 V8 Cummins with dual overhead cams they were showing at a dealer (not for sale yet) when did this happen ? is the inline Cummins Dodge uses going away or it is just to piss off Dodge ::)
good luck
As I understand it they built it intended for Dodge but Dodge is now using Fiat diesels instead, so Cummins shopped it to Nissan. Looks like a nice small engine. It looks like Dodge is going to use a 3 litre 6 cylinder diesel built by VM Motori (Fiat owned) in the Ram 1500. The Cummins is about 25% more power and torque than the Fiat, so the light pickup market looks to be setting up for a fight. What would you buy - a USA built/Italian owned truck with an Italian engine, or a USA built/Japanese owned truck with an American engine? These are all small engines for the 1500 size pickups.
Brian
Thanks I did read where the Dodge diesels are built by VM of Italy but I thought VM was part our Government Motor (GM) I would go for the Cummins I have owned a few VM engines ::)
I don't really care who builds it - I just think its about bloody time we had light diesels generally available in North America. I was in Finland about a month ago and every 2nd vehicle over there was a diesel. Its ridiculous that we don't have them available here.
Mind you, I still wouldn't drive a Dodge or a Datsun pickup, even if it did have a diesel.
Land Rover used VM diesels for a short time in the 1980s, but they got a very poor reputation. I remember that that they were ugly, complicated looking things because each cylinder had a separate cylinder head.
Practically no pickups sold here of any type of course, but sales of diesel-powered cars overtook sales of petrol-powered cars as long ago as 2009
Jeremy
Quote from: luvrbus on November 29, 2013, 05:01:10 AM... I would go for the Cummins I have owned a few VM engines ::)
You have my deepest sympathy on that. When I was working for Land Rover, we had some Range Rovers (built for the UK/Europe market -- thank goodness we didn't try to sell them in the US, the "Class Action" suits would have bankrupted us) with VM 4-cylinder turbo-diesel engines. When somebody who spent more than 20 years working for British vehicle companies says "That Italian engine was the biggest piece of junk that ever set eyes on" you can DW KNOW that it wasn't even good as a boat anchor. You can't write a list long enough to describe all the problems ... poor design (gasket surfaces so thin that it made the British designers faint, labyrinthine oil systems giving almost no oil pressure to some bearings, etc.), manufacturing defects (EVERY piece of aluminum had at least one casting flaw, dirt in oil and radiator coolant, etc.), supplier issues (head gaskets that were a different thickness on one end than the other, two boxes with the same part number on them with different parts inside), assembly problems (three pistons of one type and one of another in the same engine, engines arriving to us with no impeller in the water pump, etc.). ABSOLUTELY THE WORST engines ....
(Yeah, what Jeremy said above ... "very poor reputation" -- ya just gotta love British understatement!)
Yes NISSAN is going to use that engine in the FRONTIER and I wouldn't be surprised if they offer it in there NV full size vans at some point. CUMMINS says that this engine will be offered in school buses at some point and reading between the lines, in some FORD products since they said it was designed to fit where a V8 or V10 gasoline engine fits now. But nothing is ever official until it's official. It looks like the CUMMINS ISB is moving up to higher HP so this new ISV is coming is fill be a step up from gasoline.
Diesel engines in new vehicles don't make sense to me in cars or small pickups these days. Between the high engine cost, high fuel cost, and neutered mileage due to EPA it costs as much or more to run a diesel as gas. Maybe it makes sense if you want to run your vehicle for 300,000 miles.
Diesels certainly make sense in large vehicles. I still love diesel engines and used to have an all diesel fleet of vehicles. It just doesn't seem to make economic sense for me to buy a new diesel vehicle in today's market.
In the early 2000's Penske owned 100% of VM Motori, he sold 50% to GM, then sold 50% to Fiat, then Fiat bought the remaining 50% from GM this year. I don't like modern diesels much. I see them as so controlled to make the emission restrictions work that they are running on a computer controlled knife edge, and can become highly expensive in a heartbeat. I honestly don't think I would own a modern diesel engine past it's warranty expire date. I read so much about the failed Bosche high pressure fuel pumps causing $15K repair bills, and I know that there is nothing anyone can do to prevent that but hope it happens to the next guy in line, not me...
Brian
And another one...
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/20/2015-chevrolet-colorado-revealed-diesel-la/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/20/2015-chevrolet-colorado-revealed-diesel-la/)
Quote from: bevans6 on November 29, 2013, 09:38:40 AM... I honestly don't think I would own a modern diesel engine past it's warranty expire date. ...
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi45.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff60%2Foonrahnjay%2FBus%2520January%25202012%2F300K_zps38bee53d.png&hash=881006c3f1e0d4059172488fa6aa4691c9e1137c) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/oonrahnjay/media/Bus%20January%202012/300K_zps38bee53d.png.html)
The last of the good ones - VW 2003 Jetta (wagon); 300K miles as of Labor day weekend, average fuel consumption, 55MPG - best tank 62 MPG (trip Washington DC area to Knoxville TN). No engine troubles, lots of little "trim" things. I wouldn't buy a new EPA strangled one, either.
I read where the new ISV5.0 Cummins has 4 timing chains that is enough for me I won't be looking
We used to have a rare diesel Jeep Liberty back when we lived in a trailer and not a bus. It was awesome.
Our former gas Liberty used to get around 12mpg towing, the diesel got 18+ mpg towing, and in the upper 20's when driving around town.
It had some drawbacks (cabin noise), but overall we loved our little diesel. The engine had so much torque it felt like we could go just about anywhere.
I sure wish there were more small diesel options on the road.
- Chris
Yea that was the VM diesel I remember the recall in 2004 because of engine fires but never knew what caused the fires
I goofed before. It's the NISSAN TITAN pickup not FRONTIER.I also find it interesting that NAVISTAR is now going to offer CUMMINS engines in their skoolies so I wonder if they are planning to exit the engine business? When FORD began to build their own diesel for the SUPERDUTY, that hurt NAVISTAR since they supplied FORD for many years but since they stunk, who can blame FORD for saying the heck with it we'll do it ourself.
The reason Navistar is offering Cummins engines again is because their own engines won't meet emissions standards without SCR/DEF and they had to take Cummins back as a supplier to get the use of their technology. Navistar's refusal to go with it themselves when they had the chance blew up in their faces.
Kevin
If Navistar had been able to create working engines without the need for urea they would likely have had a lot of buyers. Urea/DEF creates an extra cost for truckers and DEF isn't available in bulk everywhere yet. Not all trucks are over the road with easy access to truck stops with bulk DEF.
If you have a 23gal DEF tank (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) on your big truck or bus, typically they will burn a gal of DEF every 350 miles. So that 23gal tank will go for nearly 8,000mi. Or in a 120,000mi year, you'd have to fill the DEF tank 15 times.
The last time we had big Diesel engines getting good fuel mileage was pre 1998. Now with the redesigned engines-mainly Detroit Diesels DD engines, the EGR has gone from 25% down to 10%-and EGR is not new technology-my '84 Mercedes TurboDiesel has it (446,000mi-no overhaul yet on either the engine or transmission). EGR is just about the only smog device on the engine now. All the smog devices are after the engine-hence the engines have actually gotten dirtier burning with programming concentrating on fuel mileage instead. Diesel exhaust is so clean now, Natural gas is just a bit cleaner-but a whole bunch more expensive to run (maintenance and oil change wise). We usually don't put exhaust stacks on anymore-just run down exhausts, no smell. And we're seeing 80,000lb trucks in the 8mpg range with some over 9mpg on the flats. No such thing as choked out smog engines anymore. Good Luck, TomC
So what happens to Human health spraying Urea-DEF around and how many cows and sheep will have to contribute? :o
Dave5Cs
DEF isn't very expensive per mile, but it still adds another system to a truck that could break down and cost money. If a diesel engine could meet current emissions and get the same mileage as a urea engine I'm sure trucking companies companies would love it.
I would consider another diesel vehicle even with DEF if I could actually save money over 200,000 miles considering higher cost of fuel and higher cost of the engine. For a pickup pulling a large trailer diesel is a no brainer for the extra torque.
While I am a Cummins fan, Other than the 903 V8 the other V engines Cummins had vears ago, non of them were very good for highway use, the 903 was best used in Coast Guard boats. SO I am hoping the new little feller can stand the test of time for Cummins sake. Me, I will stick to my 6.7 Power Stroke Fords, and stay clear of the Navistar version. Also stay clear of anything Fiat and Nissan (Datsun).
Remember the Minnie Winnie Winebago with the diesel? They had the nasty habit of dropping valves when the owners pushed hem going down the interstate.
I saw a bill for repairs on a DEF system at the FreightLiner dealer here it was $22,000 bucks caused from freezing up north, I take it the stuff freezes at about 12 degrees and is a big concern with truckers
I noticed that Walmart sells the fluid last time I was there. Here's some info on it for those that are interested:
http://www.wccressey.com/Cummins%20Filtration%20DEF%20FAQ.pdf (http://www.wccressey.com/Cummins%20Filtration%20DEF%20FAQ.pdf)
What we're doing with new trucks to combat the very steep costs of maintaining the DEF systems, and all the systems on the new trucks (3 computers that have to talk to each other), we're selling additional warranties. If you up grade to a 5yr/500,000mi Vehicle warranty (1yr/100,000mi standard), 5yr warranty tow (first $550.00), 5yr/500,000mi Detroit EW4 that covers aftertreatment, trans (10spd) and axles typically come with 5yr/750,000mi warranty, the entire truck will be covered for the first 5yrs (many get rid of the truck at the end of the warranty period). The cost? An extra $11,025.00. But divide that by the 500,000mi, and you come up with 2.2 cents/mile! When I was driving, I figured 10 cents/mile maintenance. Install a set of injectors ($850.00 ea), have a couple of electronic clitches and redue the A/C at least once, you've used up that $11,000.00.
DEF system is made to freeze. When the fluid thaws, it starts to flow-doesn't affect the engine performance. To have a $22,000 bill, the driver must have put something other then DEF into the system. The entire system costs $22,000-and that's the aftertreatment "muffler", and DEF system. There's always more to the story then just having a $22,000 bill. The DEF system is really a simple system and works very well-Europe used it 5yrs before we did. And the drivability of the trucks is truly amazing, quiet, responsive, etc. Good Luck, TomC
I don't know Tom the same outfit you work for that is in Vegas are the ones that made the charges and that is what they told him happen + they do have a good reputation about overcharging along with bad service there I don't about your store in LA
After the hell i had this fall with a duramax diesal pickup, over def issues, and then finding out all the hell other people was haveing in pickup and big trucks, i never buy a def engine, even under warrantey, trucks all over North Dakota broke down with def problem, cant get one in a shop in less then 30 to 45 days.
I will be sticking to gas pickups, not that much difference in real world mileage in a work truck between gas and deisel,anyway then you got higher opperateing cost all around on the deisel, lots of companys going back to gas in 3/4tons and 1 tons.
Just went to the L.A. auto show-huge show. Most had engines cut open. The Chevy 6.2 liter, and the Dodge 6.4 liter hemi are both 2 valve per cylinder push rod engines made extra heavy duty for trucks. All Ford engines are overhead cam engines, sans the Diesel. If you're going to put lots of miles on the truck, or pulling a big trailer all the time, a Diesel makes sense. But low mile, the gassers are really good engines.
In Masters of Harmony (barbershop chorus) where I'm V.P. Operations, we have a '95 Chevy 3/4 ton with 7.4 liter engine (454) with throttle body injection and starts every time. With overall weight of 16,000lbs pulling out equipment trailer, we get all of 6mpg. Truly heavy duty engine with oil and trans cooler in the radiator with auxiliary air cooled trans cooler. But at 75,000mi, would not made sense to have a Diesel (bought new). Just wish the trans was heavier duty (4spd overdrive). Have had 2 overhauls already-but it is always pulling the trailer. Good Luck, TomC