Ok for the high tech guys can you program a Eaton Ultra-Shift to change gears under full engine power ? if so how,"Got Answers " I have the software
I'm not aware of an Eaton 12 spd. 13 spd yes.
If that wasn't a typo, ZF Merritor makes an automated 12 spd called a Freedomline.
As for your question, I have only test drove a 3 pedal Eaton Autoshift 10 spd and if you hold it on the rug it will go to governed speed and up shift but it still cuts the throttle to do it. If you have a laptop interface you can set the up and downshift parameters ie max auto upshift RPM minimum downshift RPM wherever you want them. If you want to max out an upshift past the preset parameter you would just use the hold button and hit the arrow button for the next cog.
Kevin
Cliff -
Do you mean keeping the engine at constant speed during a shift like a torque-converter automatic does? Never seen it done in those transmissions - so far. Automotive gear-type automated manuals can get it done - I'm thinking VW's Dual-Shift-Gearbox as an example.
I have been looking around the internet trying to verify whether the bigger Ultra-Shifts use a crash-boxes or synchronizers. The medium-duty 5- and 6-speeds apparently are synchro'd. I'd think that not having synchros would limit the capability to do a on-the-throttle shift.
I know what you're getting at. I've driven a bunch of Ultra-Shifts (5's and 10s) in rental trucks; it's like falling down the stairs each shift (especially on an on-ramp). Some of the MCI J-models I drive these days are ZF "Astronomicals" as I like to call them - 12-speeds. The ZFs skip-shift, which gives you an even bigger gap. You can push buttons and go manual but then you forget what you're doing and --- well, forget it.
I've seen the Fullers get upset when you're trying to creep backwards to a dock - you get the "CA" - Clutch Abuse - code on the truck dash. Not sure how they'd like "power-shifting".
Brad
He told me it was a Eaton but it is the ZF in a MCI dropping RPM,s to shift seems like a waste no reason the bus owners want a B-500 or other Allison's this thing is awful out the starting gate are all the auto-shifts that way ?
Mine is a 10 speed Ultrashift DM3 2 pedal. It's slow in town, a bit aggravating if you're in a hurry. In the lower gears it shifts smooth like an experienced driver with a manual transmission, 8th, 9th and 10th are so smooth I have to look at the display to notice the shift. It probably needs to be a 7 or 8 speed for the load it's carrying. If you remember to really feather the throttle in reverse and not be in a hurry it's smooth. It can't be programmed to shift under power or skip shift. Any automatic with comparable HP and weight will beat it red light to red light, but after 7th I'm coming by, see ya'
Ken
Clifford, the ultra shift does use a converter unlike the auto shift. The reason they drop the power back is to reduce the Torque shock on the input shaft. If you don't do that they will tear themselves up. You might be able to change the drop back programing a little but it wont be much, and I don't think you can de-rate the hp to get you what you want.
Sorry
Don
Don,
Mine just has a centrifugal clutch, no torque converter. Do certain models have the torque converter?? I don't see it mentioned here.
http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Truck/Transmissions/UltraShiftPlus/ (http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Truck/Transmissions/UltraShiftPlus/)
Ken
Ken, yes some of them do, I will try to find my book and scan a couple of pic's for you.
Don
Eaton only made one series of torque converter automated transmissions-and that was the CEEMAT (Converter Electonic Engine Management Automated Transmission [if I remember right]). It was a dismal failure since the shifting motors were inside the trans.
Eaton has had three series of automated trans. First was the Autoshift with clutch pedal that shifted automatically, along with the Selectshift that you had to release the gas pedal to make the shift. Then came the Ultrashift DM clutch which had no clutch pedal and was a centrifigal clutch-this didn't work well since the clutch never really fully engaged-hence only about a 100k mile clutch lift. Now is the Ultrashift Plus available in 10, 11, 13, 18 spd. It has no clutch pedal and uses a normal clutch that is electrically activated on each shift-hence a faster shift-but still sounds like a manual transmission shifting. The Volvo I-Shift and the Detroit DT12 is also the same operation with a power operated clutch but with a 4spd main transmission and a 3spd planetary gear splitter for 12spds-but still sounds like a manual trans shifting.
The only transmissions that have continuous power and torque converters is the Allison planetary gear transmissions and ZF along with the new upcoming Allison CT10-which is a 10spd geared transmission with a torque converter-uses clutch packs instead of sliding crunch boxes. This transmission will turn the industry upside down-once it is in production. Good Luck, TomC
I am not that knowledgeable about the Eaton or ZF auto shifts that is why I asked, but I have been around the TC 10 Allison's test transmissions in Arrow's MCI and Setra's those shift under full power and have no clutch and I was thinking a re programing would help, looks like Eaton and ZF having some catching up to do with Allison
Tom, the ceemat is the one I was thinking about, I don't know if they put any of those in buses do you.
The TC-10TM is used in trials in NY city and PA and a few other places as inter city trucks as we speak, when I was down at Valley taking the 3000 4000 overhaul class they had one in there to look at.
They will be a factory only fix for the first year then dealer only until ??
Don
I was wondering about the CEEMAT. HME offered it in fire apparatus for about 5 minutes and never showed up in the brochures again so that confirms that it flopped. TomC, do you think that the new ALLISON TCTM will ever be offered as an OEM in buses? I too think it'll blow away the ZF and others but perhaps it may be overkill since the B500 seems well suited as standard equipment.
The Allison TC 10 TS is available now Swift Transportation in Phoenix has been running 40 units with the TC 10 for about a year now to me they look like a regular B-500 or other Allison's
Arrows are TC 10 BS models I guess that stands for bus service the TS stands for truck service
I'll keep checking MCI's website to see if they list this option in their brochures. I wonder if PREVOST and VAN-HOOL will offer it.
Quote from: TomC on November 20, 2013, 02:17:42 PM
Then came the Ultrashift DM clutch which had no clutch pedal and was a centrifigal clutch-this didn't work well since the clutch never really fully engaged-hence only about a 100k mile clutch lift.
Tom,
I know everybody's experience is different. When I was doing research on the Ultrashift I found a local trucking company that had 17 in their fleet. The owner told me they rarely gave any problems. Occasionally the display would show a trouble code for no reason and they learned to just disconnect the battery and it would go away and it was a good practice to replace the XY shifter motors every 300,000 miles. He never mentioned any clutch problems. Mine has 250,000 and I don't think it has been replaced. What was your experience with these transmissions ?
Thanks,
Ken
Ken,I believe it depends on the drivers and the local with the clutches I was talking to my neighbor yesterday that runs dump trailers on the highway some things he likes about the Eaton Ultra-Shift some he doesn't the clutch every 200,000 miles he said was the part he didn't like they break the pressure plate, I'll ask my friend at Swift they have 1000's of the Eaton's
I'm beginning to get a little bit of the usual weep between my engine and bell housing. So at some point I'll have to reseal it. That means of course I'll have the transmission out. Just thinking should I be in a hurry? I'm really satisfied with the operation and performance of the Ultrashift but I'm interested in the Allison TC10. I can't find any dimensions for the TC10. I'm really limited on size. For example the newer Utrashift Plus won't fit because the bell housing adds about an inch of length.
Thanks,
Ken
Ken,I know the weight is about the same I don't know about the size they look to be about the same as a B500,does the Ultra Shifts have 2 speeds in reverse like the TC 10 ?
That is something I noticed in Arrows TC 10's they only have 1 reverse speed while the TC 10 TS has 2 I can't see the need for 2 reverse speeds but I am not a trucker either ::)
The Ultrashift I have has a 2 speed reverse, it normally goes into reverse 1. It backs up a little smoother if you manually select 2nd, but I think that's because the clutch slips a little more before it hooks up. I see no need for a 2 speed reverse for my use. A lower speed reverse 1 would be better. If the TC 10 is larger in most any direction it won't work for me. I think it's a great Ideal and I'd like to try one if it'll fit. Then I would have a bus that would be good at the drag strip or on the street. I think the Ultrashift I have is the same thing the truckers call a Super 10 except it has the centrifugal clutch, XY shifter motors and the electronics to make it work. That will give you an ideal of the size.
Ken
Clifford, I went back and looked at my notes and them did call it a TC-10TM for intercity use only. I just went on Allison's site and they don't say anything about it they call it a TS for city and highway use.
Ken I think I have my Eaton book is packed somewhere. I still have several box's of books pack from our last move, But after what tom said I don't think you would want one wit the torque converter anyway.
The most recent series of UltraShift Plus that uses an electronically controlled clutch-the X-Y shifters no longer need to be replaced at 300,000mi. Instead, they are supposed to go the full length of the 5yr/500,000mi warranty period with no maintenance. The 10spd UltraShift Plus has more then enough gears for bus use. But-if I were getting back on the road and buying a new truck, I'd order it with the 18spd UltraShift Plus since the 18spd has an extra low gear (14.4) and order with a 2.53 rear end ratio. The only thing you have to be concerned with is startability. Once rolling, the transmission will take care of everything else. At least with driving trucks, gone are the days of sticking it in overdrive and not having to down shift going over small hills-at least if you want to get maximum fuel mileage. By the way, with 2.53 gears, 517rpm super singles and the 18spd, that would give an 75mph cruise of 1194rpm-great for running light weight. Just down shift one, and your cruising at 75mph at 1406rpm-which is perfect for the DD engines. Good Luck, TomC