just seen and talked to the owner on a Mercedes Benz Passion, has a 3 cyl diesel 5 speed tranny he brought it over from Germany he gets 86 MPG hiway and 56 city> I think it would make a excellent toad for me anyway. It is supposed to now be approved for import but can find no information on their web site can anybody help??
LarryH
I think the car you are talking about is a Smart Car. They are built by Mercedes, but badged / sold by Smart of Switzerland (yes, the watch company). Mercedes won't tell you anything abouth them, but you will find details at www.smart.com. They are pretty popular in Europe, being seen as trendy, easy to park etc. Personally I think they look scary - can you imagine being in an accident in one? There was a lot of fuss when they first came out as both the Smart and the MB A-class were not capable of passing the standard 'Moose' swerve test (they would roll over). The current A-class is a bigger car altogether, but the Smart is the same but with wider tyres and different suspension, and is speed limited now.
Whenever I see one (and there are a lot about here) it occurs to me that they should come in pairs (one for each foot).
Jeremy
I seen two of them at RVIA. They stored them inside the coach!
Cute go-carts. :D I think they would be great!
If your worried about getting in a wreck with one, drive your bus. If you want some good fuel mileage drive it.
Chaz
These are available in Canada as we speak.
My daughter lives in Kelowna, BC, and there's a pizza company in town that has four Smart cars - uses them as delivery vehicles - great advertising gimmick all painted up with the company's graphics.
Dunno if the automatic will allow flat towing. . .
Too tall to fit in an MCI bin. Might fit a Buffalo or a 417 Setra, tho.
"Too Cute", my granddaughter says!
;)
I saw one of these "Smart Cars" at a local gas station. The guy said he gets 60 MPG highway and 40 MPG local around town. According to their website, don't expect them here in the US until 2008 -- with (I believe) Penske being the importer/distributor(?).
Although 86 MPG would be great, their site suggests 60 MPG highway with a gas model and 70 MPG with the diesel version. I checked out their Canadian link at http://www.thesmart.ca/index.cfm?id=4723
The configuration that I thought would be ideal for me would set me back $18k Canadian, but I've yet to get a return phone call from the Ontario dealer I emailed.
So why the heck can Canada get these things first? Is it the Oil Companies who are slowing the process, in hopes of not allowing the US market of having a fuel saving vehicle :D
Would I buy one? Yes, for sure. The one I saw in person was pretty cool.
Jerry H.
yeah safe my a@*.........I don't care how the energy is disipated......a 6000# SUV will crush that thing let alone a bus or semi.......
.no crumble zones
thing is only as wwide as two adults shoulder to shoulder
Scary......economical but scary.
Quote from: tekebird on January 14, 2007, 07:31:09 PM
yeah safe my a@*.........I don't care how the energy is disipated......a 6000# SUV will crush that thing let alone a bus or semi.......
.no crumble zones
thing is only as wwide as two adults shoulder to shoulder
Scary......economical but scary.
Are you scared of motorcycles? ???
Somewhere out on the internet is a video of a Smart car being crashed into a wall from highway speed.
The announcer fellow goes over, and one door is kind of stuck, the other door opens with the handle.
The passenger compartment in that test sure did maintain its shape!
Mercedes is not known for fooling around.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
some yes........some no.
Mine can get out of it's own way right quick 462#+ me at 250# and 125 HP......a blip of the throttle will get you out of alot of trouble....plus I can be heard....I am sure the smarty car is a quiet little thing and has a wopping 50HP.....couldn't find what it weighs
probably very nice in Europe where they maintain thier roads nicely for the most part..........likely not very nice with the short wheelbase on our great american roads........I know I hate riding in my buddy's Jeep YJ pre coil springs....harsh ride and aweful on any road with frequent joints.
Note they desribe it as a metropolitain car.......Read London, Munich, Barcelona, Rome
just watched several crash test videos........all Mercedes videos........one of a full size MB vs the smart......unknown speed... head on off set 50%....
Smart held up well considering.......from the multiple views, the passengers would have lost at least his feet. if not knees down
I am not saying it won't pass US crash testing...Likely will....but look at what else passes.
Having been a paid firefighter for several years I have seen my fare share of "safe" cars have thir occupants killed or mamed.
Interesting sidebar............
an Airliner crashes.........kills all on board.........investigation determines cause..........Determination on what should be done to correct the prob includes federal, Manufacturer and Operator input...........sometimes nothing is done because it would cost too much.....
Just was thinking about a post about ice and snow driving.......Smart car is prob great fun as a skid recovery training platform
.
further snooping.
toyota Prius has a Higher MPG rating that the smart car.
The Cage disgn of the Smart car Transfer higher impact forces to the passengers than does a conventional construction car.
The Company is well in the Red.
Expensive for what it is at 13k too.
would rather spend 21 for a diesel VW Jetta (35 city 45 HW) with a back seat and a trunk.......and some resale value
Teke:
I have a business associate who has the Toyota Prius ... she claims it doesn't get what they suggest it gets. Yeah, the smartcar is essentially a 4-wheeled motor cycle -- to some point.
It'd be nice though for more companies to get traction in the states with vehicles that get GREAT fuel mileage. My sister lives in France, I guess at nearly $4.00 per gallon ... there's more motivation on the Europeans part to come up with alternative transportation.
A conundrum? A busnut seeking a fuel-saving vehicle.
Jerry H.
I think to be fair Smart Cars aren't primarily sold on the basis of fuel economy, although that no doubt is an arguement buyers use to rationalise their purchase. They are seen as being very trendy here, with all sorts of companies specialising in customising them, doing convertible versions etc. There is even AMG version. I would say that 90% of the Smarts you see are driven by trendy girls or young women, or as has been said are being used as promotional / delivery vehicles by hairdressers, pizza restaurants etc.
On the 'safety' issue I have no doubt they are as safe and well designed as such a car can be, but you cannot change the laws of physics, and with everything else on the road being substantially larger and heavier than you are always going to be very vunerable. It's true lots of people happily expose themselves to greater risks by riding motorcycles - but then lots of those people die, which makes it a pretty poor arguement in my opinion. I think using a Smart Car as a Toad - for pottering around campgrounds and short occasional trips and so on - is fine, but I certainly wouldn't consider one as a daily driver in busy traffic.
Jeremy
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unitednathanproductions.com%2Fblog%2Fimages%2Fsmartcarparking_lrg.jpg&hash=53c352296c1dd2e0f92ad904dacc272711e02fee)
Quote from: JerryH on January 14, 2007, 07:18:02 PM
So why the heck can Canada get these things first? Is it the Oil Companies who are slowing the process, in hopes of not allowing the US market of having a fuel saving vehicle :D
Why is it that big business gets the first blame when the epa & safety requirements are more restrictive?
I have ridden motorcycles for over 40 years. I feel that if you remove the cell phone talking, burger eating, kid baby sitting, newspaper reading etc etc drivers from the road, that you would make riding a bike as safe as driving my coach.
Air bags, safety bumpers, seat belts etc don't make cars safe,,, good drivers do!
Quote from: John Z on January 15, 2007, 07:13:16 AM
I have ridden motorcycles for over 40 years. I feel that if you remove the cell phone talking, burger eating, kid baby sitting, newspaper reading etc etc drivers from the road, that you would make riding a bike as safe as driving my coach.
Air bags, safety bumpers, seat belts etc don't make cars safe,,, good drivers do!
Kudos, Bravo, Thank you, Applause, and Standing Ovation. Very Well Said.
John
I also have ridden motorcycles since 1956, telling my age, and you are right. Those same people who are on a cell phone and doing other multitasking things when they should be paying attention to driving are the ones who get away with murder when they kill a biker. When they hit another car then it is a more even chance they will get killed or hurt. If a biker is killed, even though they are a father, mother, brother, sister, or any other relation then the general public shurgs their shoulders and say he wasn't wearing a helment if he wasn't and therefore he deserved to die. Now when someone is ejected from a car, read no seat belt, then that is another story. Yes I wear a helment and use seat belts. Don't belive in laws saying I have to.
That is my 2 cents
ED
MCI 7 and 1995 Harley ultra glide touring with loud pipes but not overly so
My Sprite gets about 40mpg and probably is not the safest car on the road, but it is fun!
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Faycu36.webshots.com%2Fimage%2F8955%2F2004323759450678732_th.jpg&hash=2706e7e3a6501d34146857467b95fe32731f9160) (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2004323759450678732)
If I take the roll bar off and windshield frame off it should fit in a lower compartment!
Quote from: kyle4501 on January 15, 2007, 06:42:24 AM
Quote from: JerryH on January 14, 2007, 07:18:02 PM
So why the heck can Canada get these things first? Is it the Oil Companies who are slowing the process, in hopes of not allowing the US market of having a fuel saving vehicle :D
Why is it that big business gets the first blame when the epa & safety requirements are more restrictive?
Kyle:
I have no doubt that the NHTSA wants to do their due diligence in making sure a vehicle is safe – hence delays. Do they take possibly unusually long time to do this? Possibly. Is it plausible to think that certain or some oil concerns could help delay the process? I think it's quite plausible.
Here's my wacky thinking. If a vehicle, however odd, was introduced in the states offering HUGE fuel savings -- despite certain trends, etc. as suggested -- it would gain attention. Years ago when the American Consumer HAD to have SUV's, the market was there, but not like it is today. What happened, virtually EVERY automaker jumped on board making an SUV. I doubt the oil companies had ANY issues with gas guzzling SUV's – heck, they'd embrace them.
WHEN the American Consumer (not all) get to the point where they are willing to make (certain) concessions for fuel economy with the introductions of more creative transportation options like the Smart-Car, it'll spark other Mfg's to (much like the SUV craze) get onboard and help create something more and more fuel efficient. They won't want to lose market share – snooze or lose. But certainly not without (in my humble opinion) road speed bumps from the Big Oil Companies.
Conspiracies? Yeah, call me silly -- but I think they exist in the world of Oil -- and it goes beyond just Mfg's of autos.
SO, wanna talk about Area 51? :D
Jerry H.
Green Hornet,
I had a 60 Bugeye for about ten years, wish I still had it. What a fun car to drive. Even took Donald Healy for a ride in it when he was alive.
Happy Trails,
Paul
Dreamscape
"WHEN the American Consumer (not all) get to the point where they are willing to make (certain) concessions for fuel economy......."
Trouble is, that point is a probably a very long way off - for a whole variety of reasons history suggests that in reality fuel economy is way down most people's list of priorities. Innovative, fuel efficient car designs have been around for decades, but in the vast majorty of cases were commercial failures. True design landmarks such as the Citroen 2CV are laughed at by drivers of profligate modern cars whose designs do not even address problems that the 2CV solved fifty years ago. In the 1950s and 60s BMW were famous for building excellent little microcars - now they build luxobarges and are embarrased by their past.
My own choice of 'fun but will get squashed in an accident' car is a Fugitive:
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avfl84.dsl.pipex.com%2Fpg10.jpg&hash=b6178e9ef66d32cf6d2ae4ec4e8dc1bdc587754c)
Eventully my Fugitive (mine isn't the one in the pic - that's just an example I found on the web) will be a toad behind the bus, unless I figure out a way of hoisting it onto the roof so I can take the car with me and tow a boat as well. (The Fugitive weighs hardly anything, but I just cannot figure out a practical way of lifting it 11 feet in the air).
Lastly, just because I came across the photo:
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.travelsupreme.com%2Fts_products%2Fmotorized%2Fimages%2FMEImages%2FMercedes3_600.jpg&hash=ddc15c9bb4c83722af067ad6cd7b2291dad9a8de)
Jeremy
Big companies got big because consumers bought what they were selling.
Pro affweets make millions+ per year because people will pay big bucks to watch the game.
I work in textiles & the job opportunities in the US are disappearing faster than a snow ball in hell. Why? Because consumers are buying cheaper forein made textiles, NOT the US made.
It is all about perceived cost. Some include quality, others place more emphasis on quanity.
I do believe in some conspiracies, the biggest is the patent royalities (for DuPont) on freon-12 expiring at the same time the study came out that said it was bad for the ozone layer. Miracle of miracles, DuPont had 134-a ready to go. Too many holes & flaws in the logic to convince me. . .
Big oil knows that we will burn as much as they can produce, so why do they care what we burn it in? Big oil also knows that most Americans are spoiled rotten brats & selfish enough to believe it is up to someone else to clean up their mess.
Bottom line,
I am also selfish in that I'm planning on using my 8V71 in my bus & not update to a more efficient 4 stroke just to save a few gallons of diesel.
But that's just my opinion . . . ;D
Quote from: tekebird on January 14, 2007, 08:16:54 PM
some yes........some no.
Mine can get out of it's own way right quick 462#+ me at 250# and 125 HP......a blip of the throttle will get you out of alot of trouble....plus I can be heard....I am sure the smarty car is a quiet little thing and has a wopping 50HP.....couldn't find what it weighs
probably very nice in Europe where they maintain thier roads nicely for the most part..........likely not very nice with the short wheelbase on our great american roads........I know I hate riding in my buddy's Jeep YJ pre coil springs....harsh ride and aweful on any road with frequent joints.
Note they desribe it as a metropolitain car.......Read London, Munich, Barcelona, Rome
It may be only 50 HP now but you can bet somebody will try to make at 100.
Len