Greetings All,
I'm new to this list, but not to bus conversions. We converted a Flxible Metro in 2001 and used it until the summer of 2011. When the inherent design problems of that bus became unbearable, we sold it. We currently full-time in a converted step van, but we want more space, and I'm in the process of buying a Gillig H2000LF. We've looked at several of these, and I am in love with the platform.
I'd like to hear from anyone who has converted a low floor or who has links to such conversions. I'm not concerned about the lack of under body space because I plan to extend the rear platform toward the door and put tanks, AGM batteries and some other infrastructure below the new floor. I'll mount my gen set in the area originally occupied by the air handler. I've not yet figured a good way to carry a spare tire, but I'm open to suggestion. We'll have large overhead cabinets in all the area forward of the door, and that will make up for a good bit of lost basement space.
I'll be new to the DD Series 40 found in a lot of these busses. Any input on these will be appreciated. We'll never be in a hurry, so maximum HP is not an issue. I hope to be able to cruise at 65 on the level, but we can live with slower. I'm hoping for good fuel economy. I'm confident that I can rebuild this engine if necessary, but I hope it won't be.
Looking forward to your input.
Jim in North Carolina
Loose the spare,, its not needed.>>>Dan
Loose the spare,, its not needed.>>>Dan
What? I'm putting brand new tires all round, but I don't think they're bullet proof. My life experience convinces me that all tires eventually go down, and some do so catastrophically. Dan, what would you do if you gash one near BF Egypt, WY? No truck tire service for 150 miles, and nobody in the state carrying 12R-22.5 tires? At least no one in bicycle distance. I'm big enough to change a bus tire, and I'm unwilling to run a single rear for long distance. Don't think I can go the no spare route. I'm a risk taker, but that one might get in bed with me.
On a related topic. We do not currently carry a toad, and we're undecided whether one will be necessary in our next bus phase. Vehicle reliability will be a large factor.
Jim in NC
a little info in series 40, 50 and 60's:
http://www.thedieselstop.com/archives/ubbthreads/General_Archives/forums.thedieselstop.com/archives/showflat.php-Cat=&Number=56644&page=8&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1.htm (http://www.thedieselstop.com/archives/ubbthreads/General_Archives/forums.thedieselstop.com/archives/showflat.php-Cat=&Number=56644&page=8&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1.htm)
Jim -
The easiest place to put a spare tire is in the compartment it was designed for. ;D
Oh, wait, they don't design spare tire compartments for transit buses. No need, as they're always relatively close to the shop should a flat occur.
100% of all highway model buses have a spare tire compartment behind the front bumper.
Problem solved if you're willing to give up the transit's challenges, especially the low-floor models.
With the market for conversions in the toilet right now, you can pick up some awfully nice units for far less than you'll spend starting from scratch with a bus that's really not designed for highway usage. As you discovered with the Flx Metro. . .
However, "do it your way," that's our motto!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
I've been in a few low floor buses and I purposely looked at the floors and interior build and quickly decided that it was not a good candidate for a serious bus conversion. Like you said: "inherent design problems".
Quote from: RJ on November 10, 2012, 01:32:10 PM
100% of all highway model buses have a spare tire compartment behind the front bumper.
On my Dina the spare tire isn't mounted behind the bumper like most highway coaches. It is on a cable winch like many SUVs and pickups these days.
Why do charter buses even bother to carry a spare? The average driver wouldn't be able to change a tire and a service could patch a tire or provide a new one. I suppose it saves costs on a new tire as a tire truck can jack the price of a tire through the roof.
Which series 40 do you have the 7.6 (466) or the 8.7 (530) neither was built by Detroit those are International Harvester engine parts are cheaper at a IH dealer vs a Detroit dealer fwiw
As mentioned, you can get a good conversion for lot less than doing one now. If you are committed to that particular model, maybe you can find one already completed. I would think that you might get it for 50 cents on the dollar with all the labor free. I wish I was wrong!
Thanks to everyone who has taken time to respond. I appreciate all input.
The bus I'm buying has the 7.6 liter Series 40. We should have it home in about a week.
I get amused when people tell me I'm feeble minded for not getting a "real" bus. When I mentioned the "design problems" with my Flxible Metro, I was referring to inherent flaws in the Flex 870/Metro body: roofs that always leak, the lack of any reasonable way to attach a different sub frame as part of a repower, the fact that that engine removal requires a special body brace to keep the thing from splaying outward while the drive train is out. Protruding interior wheel wells and a lack of cargo bays did not bother me. We worked around those things and thoroughly enjoyed our conversion for ten years. The final nail in that coffin was a leaking rear main seal on the 6v92TA. That's when I learned what a PITA removing the engine would be.
The Gillig H2000LF we are buying was never a "transit" bus. It was an airport shuttle and has highway gears with a modern engine and drive train. It does not have a front door. Most of the floor frame is stainless steel. We think the body style is gorgeous. It has 8 foot head room through most of the coach, and at 6'5", I find that thrilling. I have the interior layout mostly done, and all my tanks (except propane and other fuels) will be in heated space. We'll have a full size front-load washer and dryer, independent solar power with a serious generator for backup, a Sundanzer chest-type refrigerator, and plenty of high cabinets. My wife regrets that we will not have a tub, but nothing's perfect. Keep in mind that we currently live full time in a vehicle I converted. No one else's conversion of any coach would suit me as well as one that we will do ourselves. This will be home until I'm dead or too feeble to make that single step into the low floor.
I confess that doing the conversion is a major part of the fun for me. If we wanted a bus to use two or three weeks a year, I might consider buying one already done, but I don't want to wake up every morning and wonder why some idiot did it "that" way. If I'm the idiot du jour, I'll at least know what my thinking was and have a better idea of how to improve the next version.
Apparently no one who has read my original post knows of other low floor conversions. Very well, I'll be the first on this list, and I'll let the rest of you see what I'm doing. It won't be for everyone, but I tend to enjoy the lunatic fringe.
Best to all,
Jim in North Carolina
P.S. I still plan to carry a spare.
I would be sure to check the rear axle ratio, the ones Hertz rental owned were 50 mph tops fwiw I doubt you find a H2000 that is going to cruise at 65 mph with the 466 IH
Heck, if that's what you like and want to do, it trumps everything else. There are even guys on this board that like Eagles!
Low floor transits are just getting to be available for converters to consider.
As noted, an 8 foot high ceiling in the front half gives the converter some fascinating options as to where and how to make up for the lack of under body capacity.
Lots of Series 50 and B400 combinations available, and all stainless steel construction.
We will be seeing more busnuts giving these a whirl.
After all, where's the challenge in having a bunch of bays to carelessly fill up following the tired formula?
Pioneers are not followers.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
One way to save space is to use a low profile RV toilet. Then raise it up to normal height with the black tank mounted directly under. Good Luck, TomC
one of the great guru/pioneer busnuts had and converted a gillig i think as his second bus. George Myers and he had a great bus bulliten and went under the name Epic Conversions. he was a major contributor BCM for many years, did the electrical column. his had a 6v92 and he well documented his conversion, the good, the bad, and the ugly, lol. Look him up and everyone would love the old bulliten, it had lots of tips by and from busnuts in it. Not sure of how much will be in the archives but thats always a great place to start on this and the Busnut site. good luck
"one of the great guru/pioneer busnuts had and converted a gillig i think as his second bus. George Myers and he had a great bus bulliten and went under the name Epic Conversions. he was a major contributor BCM for many years, did the electrical column. his had a 6v92 and he well documented his conversion"
If it had a two stroke, then it was not a low floor. I'm specifically looking for low floor conversions, but thanks.
Jim in NC
Jim. Where you at? (Reply in a PM if you'd rather). I think I have some info for you.
I'm in Western North Carolina. 35 miles east of Asheville.
Sounds interesting, congrats on doing your way. Post up pics, that really tells the story.
TM
FYI Gary over at B&B Coach 702-873-4415 has a 97 Gillig he is getting ready to scrap out, B-400 trans, brakes, torsions are in nice shape, the Cummins is sold already. I thought maybe this might help some body thats looking for parts ;) ;)
Van
Quote from: Van on November 16, 2012, 07:37:55 AM
FYI Gary over at B&B Coach 702-873-4415 has a 97 Gillig he is getting ready to scrap out, B-400 trans, brakes, torsions are in nice shape, the Cummins is sold already. I thought maybe this might help some body thats looking for parts ;) ;)
Van
Hey Van? I got a call from a guy who is restoring a 4106 and he is looking for some
stock seats if you happen to come across some.
Thanks,
BCO
Will do! ;)
Not sure if anyone is pulling a Gillig engine but less than 2 days left:
http://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=85&acctid=2791 (http://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=85&acctid=2791)
Back from a long trip and to this subject,,I drove my 06 extensivly for 15 years, now an American Tradition. In all that time never needed a spare,, todays SOB diesel pushers do not have spares as it uses space that folks want for other things.. Keep your coach net card up to date and an eye on the tires.>>>Dan
Jim,
I applaud doing your own thing. I hope to follow your build a bit as I'm just starting to build my transit conversion. Mine is an older high floor, but I looked at a few LF buses and the space inside was great. I'm also not a fan of the look of coaches, to tall to my mind.
I hope you start a build thread once you get your build going. I'm starting slow, but hope to have a blog or build thread starting soon, but there isn't much info on converting modern transits, much less a low floor.
Good luck and keep us posted!
Soren
Soren said: "I hope you start a build thread once you get your build going."
I will certainly do a build thread as soon I get her home. I've been too busy to make the trip, but that phase of my life will soon be over.
I've been learning even more about the H2000LF and going over my plans, and I'm more than ever convinced that this will be a wonderful platform for conversion. Our bus cranks, rides and drives like new. The fact that it has 7'10" headroom forward of the rear platform opens a world of possibility. I think I'll be able to use off-the-shelf agricultural tanks for fresh, gray and black water. Only thing I've not worked out is propane storage, but I might have room for two 40 lb tanks beside the generator in the space where the air handler used to be.
Anyone have experience with tire covers? Seems like keeping the tires blocked from sunlight would add a long time to their useful life. We'll never drive enough to wear them out.
Jim in NC
My standard floor height AMGeneral transit has 6'10" headroom with 22" underfloor space. Even with that it was a harder conversion then a over the road bus. But then again, I didn't have the money for the original outlay. Good Luck, TomC
Finally got my bus home on December 5. Drove 200 miles with no serious problem. Engine does appear to be running hot, but I suspect that the fan drive is not running properly, if at all.
I cannot imagine being more pleased with a conversion platform. Rides and drives like a dream. Power to burn. Easily runs 65 (probably more). Vast interior space. I'm more than ever convinced that fitting tanks, batteries and other infrastructure under the floor extension I will build forward of the rear platform will be no major problem.
I put two new Hancook tires on the front. Turns out that the other four are not bad. One is a nearly new Goodyear. I'll probably replace them over the next few months to have fresh rubber all round. I've decided to keep the Goodyear tire and buy a spare wheel. I'll leave the spare tire/wheel assembly at home base, but it will be readily available should I need to pick it up or have it shipped to me.
I do need help coming up with a part number for the serpentine belt. My belt is in sorry shape, and we've not found a number on it. I got complete parts/service/operation manuals with the bus, but none of them list this belt number. I called Gillig in California. Their parts desk told me that the serpentine is specific to the engine, and that he could not help me.
So.... If you know of or know where I can find this part number, let me know. DD Series 40, 8.7 liter, 1999 model. I can get the engine number if necessary. My next step is to remove the belt and take it to Carquest. They can probably match it to measurement.
I will start a build thread ASAP, and I covet all helpful input.
I confess that I'm excited.
Jim in NC
Detroit Series 40 is actually an International engine so an International dealer might be able to help on parts.
....some of the Bus Conversion necessary stuff above the floor line more or less setting on the floor? Some of the many Crown Supercoach conversions plans I toyed with had the water and holding tanks INSIDE above the floor, particularily just above the interior wheelwells.
Tanks within tanks with proper exterior ventilation soos they would be odor free if anything stinky happened with the gray or black tank(s). Closets above. The center of gravity/balance was a concern, but worked out to be much less than a full load of high school students.
The high mounting would also solve some valid concerns regarding road impacts via junk or off roading. One design had the house batteries between the frame rails, also armored from hits and misses. Ventilation and access was provided. The weights and
measures had the coach practically perfectly balanced with just a few pounds difference from right to left and front to back. 50% R, 50% L; 35% F, 65% R. 2 axle coach. The spare stayed. The gen set ended up just behind the rear wheels. Static weights.
The fuel tanks ended up between the axles on both sides. Dynamic weight. Outfitting and the weight of all passengers including the motor home mamma were also considered. I still have the plans somewhere. HB of CJ (old demented coot now) :) :) :)
The floor is so low on these buses that the tanks would probably be in a similar location height wise to a typical transit bus. The wheel wells in these new transit buses take up space formerly used for seats. Locally all 40 foot transit buses will soon be all the low floor type and there have been complaints about reduced seating capacity.
It might be better to think of the the floor to being where the baggage bay floors are in a highway coach, with a healthy headroom above.
Putting the tanks on the floor, and then building a new higher floor above them to match the higher floor in the rear will prove to be an easier task than what it took to convert a transit in days gone by. Also easier to prevent freezing in colder climates.
Mark my words, low floor transits are the new frontier,. They have stainless frames, fit under more bridges, and have an overdrive drive train in them for getting across the continent. And they will be cheap.
Busnuts frequently go for the value, and a low floor transit has value in spades.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Here are a few pics of the new bus before we drove it 200 miles home:
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi50.tinypic.com%2F15rjvcw.jpg&hash=3ebfdeaeb88cec1ed39e3ec90880763e0bea67d8)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi46.tinypic.com%2F5bdb21.jpg&hash=659abf9ef6cc2019b348eb056f6fa763168112ce)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi46.tinypic.com%2F166y7ib.jpg&hash=9e8a9c646ecaffdd143d6cdac0e52b8c0b4faf11)
Here's a link to what I've posted about the project on a different forum:
http://www.nomadicista.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2541 (http://www.nomadicista.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2541)
I'm not yet sure which forum I'll use for the build thread. I love the depth and breadth of experience on this forum, but I think the Nomadicista site needs this project for small group morale. Whichever site I use, I'll post update notices on the other.
Jim in North Carolina
Jim congratulations on the new to you bus!! I think the flat floor is a great idea. The tanks will be easy to install just cut a access door on the outside for valves, later changes.Same with the batteries (maybe on a roll out tray ? )As for propane yes outside with lots of fresh air.The rest will be easier then on my mc1 102c.Insulate the org floor with rigid foam ,1/2 " ply to start and start laying out the design with a marker. All the best ,keep us informed. dave
Jim-- how about a few pictures of the interior that shows us the space you are going to use for tanks, etc?
--Geoff
Took me a while to get this conversion rolling. We've had several distractions, including weather. I'm in full swing now. I decided to do the build thread on Nomadicista.org, but here is a link: http://www.nomadicista.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2541 (http://www.nomadicista.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2541)
I've not had the bus out in the past couple weeks because of the 5' wide hole where the door used to be. Figuring out the system for attaching the new steel frame to the aluminum body has been an unexpected challenge, but I believe I have that in hand now. Update in the next couple days. The solution turned out to be these things:
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi46.tinypic.com%2Fv8lfg1.jpg&hash=7da4a6eff0b6ff5d7411fefb06c2a9b1989892ee)
I've had to focus a lot of energy on getting the rudiments of the solar power system working and on getting our utility building usable, but the bus is beginning to show change. I'm working under a self-imposed deadline since we need to take it to PA for a week at the end of this month. Will be interesting to see how "livable" it is by then, but we've already cancelled the insurance and plate on the step van. Nothing like a burned bridge for motivation.
Before I removed the original door, I had the bus around town several times. Every time I go out, someone stops me and wants to see inside or talk about the conversion plans. People seem attracted to this bus in a way they never were to the Flxible Metro. After seeing my Gillig, I am certain some are thinking "bus conversion" for the first time in their life.
Speaking of the Flex, we got it in May of 2001. That summer, we took the family to Niagra Falls. The exterior still looked much as it had when it was a city bus. As we were leaving Niagra that afternoon, an elderly woman on the sidewalk waved at me and began hustling toward what we then noticed to be a bus stop just ahead. I considered for a moment stopping and letting her on and dealing with her confusion, but instant fear of a kidnapping charge kept me from it. As I drove on I could see her rude gesture in the curbside mirror. I wouldn't be surprised if some local transit manager got an earful the next day. Took us several miles to stop laughing.
lostranger Your link would not work for me ? dave
Mister Jim: That is a very nice looking bus! Congratulations!
Off topic maybe, but I for one would love to see some photos and details of your stepvan conversion.
Thanks in advance!
Jim,
Having a fishbowl suburban, I certainly envy you the standing and walking around room. Good luck with your conversion! I think that it would be an interesting project.
-- Seaton
Here's the link to my conversion thread again. Sorry some are having trouble. It worked for me: http://www.nomadicista.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2541 (http://www.nomadicista.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2541)
As far as pictures of the step van conversion go, there's not much to see. We have indeed lived in it for over a year, but it was never close to finished. We decided it was too small for our needs almost as soon as we got it. I have removed most of the conversion stuff already, and the rest will go as soon as we move into the Gillig. I'm leaving the 1-1/2" polyisocyanurate insulation and selling the truck as a bare shell. Someone will buy it for camper or food truck use. It's a great van with two curbside doors and no rear door.
We have to go out of town for a couple days. I won't be able to update the door work on the Gillig until late in the week.
Jim
I've posted an update to my build thread. It's here: http://nomadicista.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2541&p=19361#p19361 (http://nomadicista.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2541&p=19361#p19361)
Many thinks to Brucebear for getting me to Charlotte, NC to see a place that does double decker conversions on the Gillig Low Floor platform. It was educational and a great time. Bruce, thanks again, and I hope your double decker is sailing the high seas — uh, roads — soon.
Here is a work in progress:
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi46.tinypic.com%2Fvnoys9.jpg&hash=0abda522b3507905bb1b93209644b74e7edf7491)
Quote from: Lostranger on March 17, 2013, 11:18:14 AMMany thinks to Bruce for getting me to Charlotte, NC to see a place that does double decker conversions on the Gillig Low Floor platform. It was educational and a great time. Bruce, thanks again, and I hope your double decker is sailing the high seas — uh, roads — soon.
Was my pleasure, Jim. Glad you came - if it will be helpful (or if you're just in the neighborhood), come on by again. BH