Has anyone ever sold their bus and carried the note? How did it work out?
Thanks for the input.
Bill
Kwajalein Atoll
Not a good idea btdt a long time ago in today's world one would have to be nuts or on the edge to carry paper on a bus unless you can keep it in your possession till it is paid for
good luck
However, in this day and age, you can install a GPS tracker on the bus. It's easier to pull credit reports and infor on the buyer. Plus, I have all you guys out there to tell me everytime you see my bus..... ;D
Just toying with the thought.
Bill
Maybe if they have something else to put the lien on, like a house? Even then it will take forever to collect. If they blow the engine up and the bus is the collateral, you are toast.
Don and Cary
It's amazing how we sometimes have moments of madness!
Think this over REAL good and you will come to the correct decision.
Not with out a good chuck of collateral, If they cannot pay cash now, what would insure they will be able to make the payments later? I would leave that kind of risky venture to the financial lending institutions. ;)
They would have to put $10 -12K down. This person has a well established business, that requires traveling around the Southeast. Lots of information on their three websites.
Bill
Bill,
Personally, I would never do it!
When you sell a House, Boat, Plane, BUS, you want cash in hand. Too much opportunity for buyers remorse when something breaks or they have a life change (divorce, business slips, whatever) etc.
But, If I were, do the like the used car dealers. Make them put down what you can live with if you never see them or another penny again.
With you being on the range, dealing with this quickly if they default has added issues.
I know you want to move the bus, but things and people change after the deal and keys are in there hands.
No offense to your buyer, but way beyond my acceptable risk, unless you satisfy line 2 first.
Good luck!
Cliff
It can cost you the down payment to repo the bus if the guy decides to make you go through the channels like the courts btdt lol
Why can't he get a loan on the bus, or a line of credit to buy the bus? If banks simply won't loan on your bus due to age or whatever that is one thing. If banks won't loan the guy money due to his credit then why would want to loan to him?
I've known guys who run businesses and have tons of money. Part of the way they make their money is by having no ethics. They simply refuse to pay your bill, or they don't pay until you hire a lawyer and are one step from the courthouse door. A businessman I know showed up in person to hand over a check for money he owed. He called the bank and stopped payment on the check as soon as he got back to his office.
(BTW, you can have ethics as a businessman and still make money.)
Quote from: belfert on October 19, 2012, 05:06:12 PM
Why can't he get a loan on the bus, or a line of credit to buy the bus? If banks simply won't loan on your bus due to age or whatever that is one thing. If banks won't loan the guy money due to his credit then why would want to loan to him?
I've known guys who run businesses and have tons of money. Part of the way they make their money is by having no ethics. They simply refuse to pay your bill, or they don't pay until you hire a lawyer and are one step from the courthouse door. A businessman I know showed up in person to hand over a check for money he owed. He called the bank and stopped payment on the check as soon as he got back to his office.
(BTW, you can have ethics as a businessman and still make money.)
Or on the other hand you can own a business and be so far in debt you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel but you keep plugging along and hope some day you'll see it.
I for one fall into this last category and am not ashamed to admit it. Some day dome how we will be debt free again one way or another.
Now that said I am like the others who have chimed in. If he's got an established business that is actually running in the black he should be able to get financing.
I don't recall what your asking, but if it were me I'd take NO less down than what you can feel comfortable with if that's all you ever get. After all if it blew an engine, caught on fire, got wrecked, stolen or any other major issue came up it's gonna fall back on you.
I know it's tough to sit on it, but how tough would it be to let it go and spend countless time and $ trying to recoup your losses if he defaults?
;D BK ;D
I know it sounds like a terrible idea, but how do all these Buy Here Pay Here car lots stay in bidness? There must be many good people out there that got caught up in XXXXXXX financial meltdown, I personally know a couple. JIm
I have a friend another bus guy he owns a buy here pay here car lot his down payment covers what he has in the car
Yup, Clifford is right. The small used lots usually have the down payment cover what they have in it. Then everything else is gravy. They do lose cars also, fwiw
John
The businessman I know with no ethics make plenty of money. They aren't avoiding paying bills because they don't have the money. One owner of a retail chain avoids paying for services as long as he can. He drags out payments so long that lawyers sometimes get involved. A friend of mine refused to do business with this retail chain because other people in his line of business either never got paid or it took months and months to get their money. I can only assume they pay for their inventory on time or nobody would sell to them. A friend of a friend rose all the way from a lowly store employee to an executive at corporate HQ. He finally quit his well paying job because he couldn't stand the owner's lack of ethics and shady business practices.
The moral of my posts is just because someone is a successful businessman doesn't mean they will pay their bills on time, or at all. Most people will pay, but not a few won't.
BK is right that those car businesses charge enough down to cover most or all of what the car cost them. Those places charge ridiculous amounts for a car if one pays all the payments, but it might be the only way some can afford a car. If a car does get repossessed they just clean it up and put it back out on the lot. Some of them charge as much as $99 a week. $99 a week is more than I pay for my new car loan! (Loan term is probably way shorter.)
Don't we have a busnut in Mariette Ga. Anyone know who that might be.
I'm drawing a blank.
Bill
If you decide to do it anyway, charge him a good down payment with high interest payments with a due in full date and a clause that states if any payments are missed that the full return of the coach become due 5days after missed payment.
Also the pink is held by you and any transaction should be Notarized and signed with witnesses.
Might think about seeing if he will give you a finacial statement both personal and business and ask if he has ever gone bankrupt. If he says yes then say no thank you.
Just some ideas, Dave5Cs
I sent you a pm for pictures and info on your bus. Let me know if you do or do not receive it. Ron 4104
Ron,
Just replied to your PM.
Bill
Someone I know used a different type of arrangement when selling a house; the buyer was short of the full amount but knew he had a substantial chuck of cash coming to him in a few years; the buyer and seller made a deal whereby the buyer would pay 80% (or whatever) of the amount, with the remaining 20% lump sum due on a particular date (with no intervening payments at all). The 20% was to be 20% of the house's value at that time, not 20% of the value when bought, and the arrangement stipulated that if the payment wasn't made the house would be sold and the buyer receive the money that way.
The seller (the guy I know) is a part-time property developer and was very relaxed about making the arrangement because he was very sure that the house value would increase and in fact he did end up with a nice additional profit which he wouldn't have otherwise had.
I'm not saying this could be used on a bus though - still owning part of the title won't help much if you don't know where the bus is.
Jeremy
Sold a cheap boat back in the day to a so called friend on monthly whose dad had money and a good business. Made first payment and quit. He hid or ran everytime i seen him. Dad was just as big of crook as he was no help. Caught him one day and took it out on his noggin. Cost me a broken hand, half a day in the slammer, and a lawsuit. I won but cost mo money. I wouldn't think of selling anything on wheels on note unless I got what it was worth upfront. Never seen the boat again.
ps.
the broken hand was worth it.
Most small business and individuals have enough line of credit on their credit cards to buy a bus in today's market check into that
Don't do it.
Just for kicks, assuming he put half down he still needs to come up with $15k. First, he should be able to get some kind of loan for this relatively small amount. But the problem is that if he is planning on running around the Southeast he will be burning all his future payments up in fuel. Throw in a tire or two, engine work and you will never see your money.
Tell him you will accept a deposit of $5k and you will take it off the market for a year. If he can't come up with $10k in a year,... Plus if he really wants it, he will find a way to come up with the money. Don't make his problem, your problem.
I tried to buy a truck at one of those buy here-pay here dealers for a reasonable cash price.
The dealer told me he doesn't sell for cash, weekly payments only. He then confided that he would likely sell that truck three or four times.
Me, I would maybe take monthly payments, but the bus would stay in my yard until it is paid in full. And charge for storage in the meantime, LOL.
That's what we do with horses sometimes, and get board too, seriously.
JC
We sold horses on time to a breeder ONE time. We held the papers. He stopped paying. We sued for our money. Judge made us release the papers or the judgement went to the buyer. The judgement we got we couldn't collect on anything. Even though he was a business man, we couldn't lien any of that property because we would be stopping his ability to work. Never got another dime. Lost horses and a $7K lawyer bill.
Don and Cary
It could workout for him,I still do it from time people always tell me not to send parts before they are paid for
I do it anyway never got taken yet but a bus would be a big gamble one I sold worked out great one did not so it would be roll of the dice for Bill
good luck
You didn't send that one thru the mail did ya? ;D
Lol nope Van I delivered that one, the last one I sold I told the guy cash he took it like I was saying cash as in 100 dollar bills try getting that into a bank they look at you like a dope dealer
If you tell a cowboy cash that is what you get
good luck
Lol, Clifford. Like Matt (saddleup) kind of cowboy? It really can be amusing depositing that amount of cash. It can take a while if they want to mark every single bill.
Quote from: luvrbus on October 20, 2012, 10:17:37 AM
Lol nope Van I delivered that one, the last one I sold I told the guy cash he took it like I was saying cash as in 100 dollar bills try getting that into a bank they look at you like a dope dealer
Your mistake was putting it in the bank. I had a couple of farm supply customers that insisted on paying in real cash. (And a couple more that I insisted they pay in real cash.)
Back to Bill's bus - the consensus is clear Bill but in this market .................... who knows. Character, capacity and collateral - that's what the bankers look for. Sometimes (like now) they seem focussed solely on collateral but a few years ago they were singing the praise of capacity and they always look for character. So if you decide to carry the note do what the banks do:
- confirm his income - talk to his boss, find out if he's about to get laid off
- look at his financials and confirm whatever he tells you. Get a privacy release signed so you can talk to his banker. They won't tell you much but they can tell you if he pays his loans on time, carries credit card balances, the longer you talk to them the more they'll let slip.
- ask for a co-signer. Maybe his pa or his brother will co-sign. He might say "no" but it won't hurt to ask
- tie the paper up solid - go apply for a car loan, turn it down and keep a copy of the paper.
And remember - you're just going to pee the money away on a boat anyway so what difference does it make if he doesn't pay? You'll likely be money ahead in the long run.
Quote from: Kwajdiver on October 19, 2012, 03:04:09 PM
Has anyone ever sold their bus and carried the note? How did it work out?
I purchased a bus with payments once. I knew the seller and everything worked out good for both of us. I would be very reluctant to sell to anyone I did not know and some that I do know. If you decide to go through with financing the bus, ask yourself what you will do if he never pays you and the bus is destroyed. You would have little recourse and no money or bus. If you can live with that possible outcome, then finance it. If not, then I would either sell the bus at a lower cash price or let it be a huge garden gnome.
If you tell me cash you are going to get it in hundreds too. ;D
I think it would highly depend on your gut feeling towards the person you are considering carrying a note for. Only you know the circumstances of the situation and what you're willing to risk to find a win/win deal here.
RV loans in general are very difficult to obtain right now. We have friends trying to hit the road full time, who have otherwise great credit & verifiable home address & ample income, who are being turned down by countless financial institutions. And if you're already full time without a physical home base, forget about it. So unless one is able to obtain an unsecured personal loan or against some other collateral, it will be difficult for them to come up with alternate financing.
We have some dear friends who were in this position when they went to buy their RV. They eventually found someone who needed to sell their motorhome, but it had a loan against it. They were able to work out a 'wrap around loan' on in, in which our friends took over the payments and liability for the rig, and will gain ownership when the note is paid off. For 3 years now, they've paid on time every time. There are good people in the world who live up to their word, and unfortunately - there are those who don't. The trick is figuring out who is who, and what you're willing to risk yourself.
- Cherie
Guys, thank you for all the input.
Bob way up North, what did you mean by "tie the paper up solid - go apply for a car loan, turn it down and keep a copy of the paper."
It's still not a done deal. I've sent him a business credit application. Figure this would get me more information to research. I've been checkinig court records in his county. Nothing of interest.
As far as the bus being destroyed, there would be insurance on it. He would have to carry insurance and make me the payee.
Like the co-signer, then two people to go after. If he doesn't pay, I go find the bus and bring it home. Yep I little bit of a problem, with where I work, but that's what they make airplanes for.
"Why can't I just have a dull year!"
Bill
Quote from: Kwajdiver on October 20, 2012, 07:10:29 PM
Bob way up North, what did you mean by "tie the paper up solid - go apply for a car loan, turn it down and keep a copy of the paper."
Well you could hire a liar to draft the paper but companies like GMAC or your local bank have already done all the work to draw up the paper. I'm not telling you to photocopy somebody else's paper but ................
Quote
If he doesn't pay, I go find the bus and bring it home. Yep I little bit of a problem, with where I work, but that's what they make airplanes for.
That sounds easy when you say it fast but its not quite that simple. Make sure you know up front what the law is where you live. I only ever had to do one hostile repossession and on that occasion my lawyer told me "I don't want to know about it until the equipment is back in your yard because up to that point its theft" (and I'd be the thief despite the fact I was getting my own equipment back.) Of course I could have gone to court, got a judgement, then got a sherriff and gone looking for the equipment but along the way I'd have been bleeding dollars and time. There are shortcuts and they work fine as long as you don't get caught. YMMV
Your point about being the 1st pay on the insurance is a great idea and you can write that into the contract so that failure to insure constitutes default. Then you'll need to require annual confirmation of insurance and at least where I am you'd want to have the right to contact the insurer directly to confirm insurance.
I also know a dealer who is into bikes. Evidently he met some effective collection agents through his biking contacts but again that's probably something you don't want to discuss in an open forum.
It is very hard to trust people now days. But......our first bus we bought from someone on terms, with a small down payment. Pd it off pretty quick, but, thank goodness he took a chance on us. Now, on the flip side, we had people who wanted to buy that bus from us when we sold it, and carry the note. We were not willing to do that, as we had a trust issue with the couple of people who wanted to do it. Also, we were converting our new bus, and wanted to put the money right back into it. We decided instead to sell the old bus really cheap instead. Great guy got the bus, and we are happy about that, and on the plus, she is still in action, and see a pic every now and then. ;D Times are hard now days to get anything financed, especially and old bus.
Quote from: Kwajdiver on October 19, 2012, 03:04:09 PM
Has anyone ever sold their bus and carried the note? How did it work out?
Bill
Kwajalein Atoll
Bill:
I have never sold on credit. And I am no lawyer. But back in my young and rebellious days, I had a private investigation agency and repo business based in East Texas. Did a lot of work for used car dealers. Their down payment every time would equal what they had paid in full for the car at the regional car auctions. I remember one car that I literally repoed 4 times from 4 different unpaying customers.
I chased delinquent customers all over East Texas and Louisiana. People seemed willing to disappear in order to not pay $300. Amazing! Twice I had guns in my face.
So if it were me, cash in full up front. You will sleep a whole lot better. You might even consider coming down 15-20% in price if he pays in full up front. In the long term, it would save YOU money.
And how do you force him to keep the insurance up on the bus, if he is unwilling to pay you his debt? The bus could become your liability.
And business websites mean nothing. What if there is no real business? What if it only exists on the web? (I have a few million for you in a Nigerian bank. :-) )
My 2 pesos' worth.
Like Ciff with cash money, Bought my 91 prevost early last year and 92 year old lady wanted cash. This lady is worth a few million. I told her the IRS would be all over me if I turned up with a bag full of money. She finally agreed to except a check with her bank after her bank president told her it was okay. Still had to wait till she cashed it. Funny thing was her grandson called me about 3 months later and wanted to know when I was going to pay her for coach. Her latino live in housekeeper come to find out took that and money she kept in her safe. To the tune of a couple hundred thousand bucks. They can't find her. Thinks she in mehico! Yes!
Bill, make sure an insurance policy is paid for in advance, with you as the primary reciepient in case of any kind of loss and/or a theft, get a rider enclosed on the policy, that makes you aware if there is ever any insurance claim payout and you should require both your signatures on checks, allowing you to know if something happens before paid off, this is like tenant rental insurance, not that unusual when you rent out a personally owned home,also make sure you are notifyed if insurance cancels, lvmci...
Just get all cash if you want to sleep well at night. ;D
I once sold a car on payments. The people were honest but it turned out the wife had a gambling habit. Fortunately, they wrecked the car and the insurance paid me off. We sold our last bus for some cash and equipment which I was able to sell. That seemed to be okay. If you want to do payments, figure the up front figure as what you can live with as a total should things go bad. In that case, every payment is extra.
You could also take the down he is offering (10-12k) and see what kind of barter stuff he can throw in. I bought a Honda eu1000i last week for $200 and a video projector I was looking to get rid of, and we were both happy. You can look for other creative ways to make it work.
By the way, you could ask the guy to download his credit report and forward the PDF file to you. That will certainly tell you things like payment history, landlord tenant problems, court and small claims judgements, etc.
Quote from: Lin on October 21, 2012, 10:09:09 PM
Spending or handling cash these days is not the same as it used to be. Spend a lot of it, or move it around, and the bankers will introduce you to some folks who are known as "The National
Regulatory Agency" (which is branch of the I.R.S). Like it or not, they are watching you and they are watching your money.
Ben Franklin said it best: "Be ye not a borrower or lender be."
BCO
Right on about the cash but it is not the "National Reg Agency" it is Homeland Security. They are watching for terrorist funding by laundering cash. In this new age, nothing is private.
Quote from: Hobie on October 22, 2012, 09:34:05 AM
Right on about the cash but it is not the "National Reg Agency" it is Homeland Security. They are watching for terrorist funding by laundering cash. In this new age, nothing is private.
The U.S. maintains separate securities, commodities, and insurance regulatory agencies—separate from the bank regulatory agencies—at the federal and state level. U.S. banking regulation addresses privacy, disclosure, fraud prevention, anti-money laundering, anti-terrorism, anti-usury lending, and the promotion of lending to lower-income populations. Some individual cities also enact their own financial regulation laws (for example, defining what constitutes usurious lending).If you have it and you spend it, they are going to keep tab's on you, and like you said, "because of Homeland Security BS" there isn't a whole lot you can do about it.
For everything else there is of course ... MASTERCARD.
BCO
It was in place long before Homeland Security banks set the limit on when to flag a account but all have a $10,000 ceiling per the US laws BOA flags $5000 in cash Chase is $10,000 cash and I heard Wells Fargo and Citi Bank flags $3500 because of their past history
Leaving the US to travel I can tell you 1st hand why we have bar codes in our bills lol
Has anyone read the book, "The Last Boy"? It's the Mickey Mantle story.
The man that this entire discussion is about, is mention in the book as the batting coach that studied Mickey swing with kintics (sp).
It just keeps getting more interesting....
Wish this ship would stop rocking.
Bill