I headed out to take the bus to the yard where we could work on the wheel seal, and now the frickin' thing won't start. I've never had this issue with this bus. It's always fired right off.
The bus is on runup ramps is the only thing different at the moment. I did inadvertantly leave the 12v-24v converter on for several hours last night, but didn't expect it to kill the batts. Even so, I've been charging on a 35A fast charger (trading batts for the 24v system) for at least an hour and a half... and all I still get is a click. The starter acts like it's trying to rotate and can't... the fan blade moves just slightly and stops.
I took some time to clean up the battery connections. They weren't too bad, but now they're sqeaky clean and Vasolined. It looks like the firewall ones are sound. I can't quite see the starter over the back of the head to see if those are tight, but I could grab the wires... still couldn't tell.
I guess I could go buy some fresh 8Ds or Grp. 31s... but have a hard time believing that it's batts right now.
The bus gods apparently don't want me to leave Texas! Arghhh!!
Brian B.
I have a friend that uses his bus to make a living. His 8V71 took a crap & he is now working in the dirt to replace the engine. Oh and it cold & he has snow to deal with too. And he dropped his laptop, so he is disconnected from everyone.
So it is not as bad as it could be. Chin-up, you are with family, enjoy what you can.
Brian,
Test each battery with a load tester. Last week I had a 2 week old new battery from WalMart fail. We had a similar complaint. Voltmeter showed only a slight difference on voltages and charging batteries had no effect.
Another possibility, if a standard transmission, is that it is in gear. Saw that happen last Labor Day Weekend. Bus engine would barely turn. We finally realized the problem when a person was leaning against the bus when they hit the starter. Owner said he never pushed the clutch in when starting because the transmission was always in neutral. Hope this helps, Jack
Diesel engines require just air, fuel and a battery to spin the engine. You must have air and some fuel. Engine no spin do all the electrical checks. Get the batteries all charged to 12.6 volts. Check the battery switch by removing switch and disassemble unit. If possible, temperarily bolt the cables together. Try start switch. Engine no spin, jump starter solenoid to alternator at battery connection. Engine no spin, check cables
at starter, solenoid, and ground. Loosen cables and move cables to make good connection, tighten bolts and jumper starter solenoid. Use a heavy wire of about 12-10 wire size and jump power from starter positive cable to starter solinoid. Check again the major ground, negative, connections. The starter and solenoid is easy to get at behind the trans at right rear service door. Frank
Brian, Try taking a volt meter start at the batteries. Check while someone tries the starter. If the volatge drops offthere is a battery problem. Check each battery. If not there go to the starter, if the voltage stays up either a connection at the starter or starter. A simple way to check. Just my explaining may be bad. Tom Y
Gads, Frank. I wish you'd have posted your concise bit of golden advice about 2pm today. There was more than a few of us standing around trying to figure what to do next! Your post is getting printed out and put in my electircal toolbox for safekeeping. Wow.
I did hopefully determine that it was the 8Ds and got a replacement set tonight. I'll keep ya'll posted on the outcome.
"Newbie" nothing, Frank. Please post on here anytime. You other folks ain't too shaby, either. And you're right Kyle... if I had to be broke down, my Mom's driveway is about the best place to be! I feel better already.
Brian B.
Brian, applying Vaseline to the terminals of a known good battery would be a questionable practice, in my opinion...let alone one with a troublesome history. If the battery is low on voltage the terminals and posts will heat due to the extra current draw of the starter and the Vaseline will compound the situation because it will melt and act as a dielectric.
Hope your situation evolves and improves.....
NCbob
Wowsers, Bob... I got that advice straight outta Da Book a few years back. ??? It's right there in the Lubrication section.
Anyone else think it's bad practice?? I've found that the red spray doesn't protect the way that petroleum jelly does.
Hmm...
bb
Big 8D batteries stink. They cost too much, weigh too much, warranty is just 18 months, not all places have this group and many other group batteries work as well. Lately, I have been buying Walmart batteries for about $70 compared to $125. Walmarts 950cca batteries spin a diesel as fast as 8D. Most 8D's are 1005cca. Walmarts are every place and warranty is 6-7years. I can carry 2 Wally batts. Group 31 batteries are
also a good size batteries but cost the same as 8D and have the same warranty. Battery care and monitoring is very important. A battery that indicates 12.0 volts is 75% discharged. A fully charged battery indicates 12.5 - 12.6 volts with a digital multimeter. Most of my wrenching on equipment, wheel bearing grease is used for battery terminals. Washing any battery with water spreads the acid solution. I always wipe any moisture away from and off batteries with paper towels. No water. Good venting is required. Frank
Re. using Vaseline - as it happens I have a tube of 'proper' battery terminal anti-corrosion paste, and it looks just like Vaseline. The texture is slightly thicker than Vaseline, and even seems slightly gritty, but I'm sure it is basically the same stuff
Jeremy
WHAT? You're at your mom's? Why didn't you say so?? Get her to pour some of her chicken soup over the battrie...works every time. :)
I just talked to Brian and he has a bad starter-
Any one have any information on a starter rebuild company in the Dallas / Ft Worth,Texas Area?
jlv
Vaseline should not be a problem. It will keep the terminals from corroding. While I don't use it myself, I've heard and read recommendations on it's use many times, and have never heard or read anything saying not to use it.
Quote from: roadrunnertex on November 11, 2006, 11:00:31 AM
I just talked to Brian and he has a bad starter-
Any one have any information on a starter rebuild company in the Dallas / Ft Worth,Texas Area?
jlv
Brian,
Before you pull the starter off, I'd hit the case of the starter with a hammer a few times to attempt to reseat the brushes on the armature. It always works when it's brush wear as opposed to solenoid issues.
Hope that helps.
Jay
87 SatftLiner
Here is one on Ebay right now:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/large-detroit-diesel-starter-40-mt-24-volt-cw-rotation_W0QQitemZ120051190653QQihZ002QQcategoryZ50466QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Tom, for some reason that starter doesn't look right to me as the right on for a 71. I might be wrong, and I usually am, but there doesn't look like there's enough terminals on the solenoid. Just my opinion......
NCbob
That starter is a clockwise rotation starter. The spaceship needs a counterclockwise rotation.
It can be changed by reorienting the brushes, and replacing the bendix.
It will work in the 71, but it is kind of light. Most likely you will want a 50MT.
Another option to look at is the 39MT which, as I found out the other day, is a gear reduction starter and is a whole bunch lighter to R&R.
When removing the starter, by the way, it's easiest to go through the access panel inside the coach. you will also probably need a short 15/16" socket and a universal with a wobble extension. Another good idea is to grind the shoulder of the back of the socket off so it doesn't get stuck between the starter housing and the bolt.
have a piece of rope handy to lift the starter out with because there isn't a lot of room to work with in there.
IHTH.
Dallas
Yup, bad starter. I tried all of the troubleshooting tips from Frank-id. Nuthin'. Hammer taps did nuthin'.
It wasn't too tough to get the starter up and out compared to some of the horror stories I've heard about on the v-drive 8v71s. I worked from above via the access hole under the bed, got the two nuts and one bolt off and put a strap under it to pull it over the tranny and out the side door. I did cut open the underside of my left thumb real bad when a nut busted loose. My uncle was helping me, and I told him, "you don't really love your engine until you bleed all over it!"
Once out, we attached jumper cables to the terminals on the solenoid again and... nuthin'. When I bypassed it and went for the starter, we got a lot of smoke and sparks... guess I finally let all of the smoke out.
JL already posted my plight of finding a starter around here. I'll contact the eBay seller and see if that unit could work in my Buff. JL sent some shop info via email. My uncle has also used a local outfit called AlterStart for his chuch's Blue Bird bus starter rebuilds. www.4alterstart.com I'll be on the horn first thing Monday to these shops to see if I can get this one rebuilt quick locally. Or maybe head up to Jefferson Bus Parts in OKC and pick one up.
In the meantime, I'm going to check all of my wires "in the path" to insure that bad connections didn't lead to this. I've always had clean, easy starts for this bus... so this came out of left field. It sure doesn't look like the starter was rebuilt when the engine was out-of-framed, which seems kinda silly. Guess it's my problem now! :D
I'm trying to stay upbeat here. Might as well, eh? But with my Mom's cookin' I'll probably get home another ten pounds heavier!
Brian "Stranded Buffalo" Brown
Brian, I'm sure you got the info that JL Vickers & I were exchanging earlier - he'd asked me if I knew of anyone in the area. John was going to forward my response to you since I had to leave. I did get a chance to call Eagle Tours in Irving, who recommended Alternator Service in Dallas, not too far from you. I don't know anything about them, but I remember the folks at Eagle Tours as being pretty good when I inspected their company many years ago. Alternator Service's website is http://alternatorservice.com/bus_industry.htm
Eagle also mentioned that Tejas Coach Works in Mineral Wells will have a starter, apparently a takeoff, since Eagle sent them an 8v71 a few days ago. I have to head for the airport Sunday morning, but I'll try to check in here first. You have my phone number.
Arthur
Bob, I am going to start putting disclaimers on my posts:
"This post is my opinion and does not necessarily reflect the opinions of actual mechanics or people who know something"
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
All kidding aside, that starter LOOKS like it has the same terminals on it as mine; two big ones, one connected directly to the starter and one for the battery cable; and two small ones, one ground and one for the starter switch.
I keep forgetting about the rotation difference...still thinking about trucks.
By the way, an 8V71 WILL run backwards.....
Don't ask me how I know this
:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
Hey Brian It's nice to hear your up beat positive attitude especially what was thrown your way the last few days. Were you able to move it over to the yard to tend the seal leak or is that yet to do . Paul
Quote from: roadrunnertex on November 11, 2006, 11:00:31 AM
I just talked to Brian and he has a bad starter-
Any one have any information on a starter rebuild company in the Dallas / Ft Worth,Texas Area?
jlv
Call Quinn at B & F Battery in Mineral Wells (45 miles west of Fort Worth on US-180 -- right above Weatherford) . He is who rebuilds all of our starters, MCI A/C fan motors, etc. Does a good job, usually overnight turn-around, and prices are good.
Alterstart in Dallas is presently rebuilding our starter for $215. Should be ready within the hour, but I'll keep you posted on the progress.
Cheers,
Brian B.
Brian,
Just catching up on this whole ordeal.
Glad to see you have got the situation well in hand!
All I can offer is our best wishes for a safe and uneventful trip home.
Brian wrote "The bus gods apparently don't want me to leave Texas! Arghhh!!"
Well I hope you have satisfied there thirst for Bus parts as I am heading out there in December...... :o :-X :P
Cliff