Considering three mini-split A/C units for my project. Had a wild idea of placing the condensers on a expanded metal "shelf" above the engine blower doors.
Am I nuts?
There would be plenty of fresh air parked or moving. The shelf could be easily supported and painted to look right.
Go ahead an laugh... but it's just an idea
Not sure about that but some of the new minisplit condensers can handle at least two evaporators. Might make it easier to find a place for it.
-Tom P.
need 12 inches between unit and bus. would need to keep clean coil==wash more often. Why not? 40 ft coach 2each 12000 inverter type would be plenty... Would assume your staying smaller(12 and under ) to keep 120 volt. Bob
I will sure be glad to see what the results are going to be running the splits from a generator driving down the road the few I know with the splits are not having good luck.
At Taylor here in Phoenix they were replacing 3 with roof airs could have been the installation but Taylor did the conversion he does good work and this bus runs around 100,000 miles a year
It just did a Alaska trip he told me they were always a problem hence he was removing the splits
I don't we will ever know till Bob hits the roads about anything works with the bus parked
Did he mention any details about the problems?
-Tom P.
Quote from: robertglines1 on July 28, 2012, 04:34:28 PM
need 12 inches between unit and bus. would need to keep clean coil==wash more often. Why not? 40 ft coach 2each 12000 inverter type would be plenty... Would assume your staying smaller(12 and under ) to keep 120 volt. Bob
Bob, you are my inspiration to go with the mini-splits. I've used them in homes and really like them. You have probably have explained before, but what did you do with the condensers?
I've thought of putting them in the bay, but figure I would need additional blowers to move enough air.
Yes, small units, 120V.
I'm curious what the problems have been that others mention. It seems these coaches are uniquely suited for this kind of installation.
Dave
Thanks for any and all input.
Dave the problems he told me was lost freon from broken lines,electrical boards and fans,service on the road, the dehumidifying factor,the heat from the road in AZ shutting the unit down not much of a problem other places,his had no automatic restart and no one would honor the warranty.
I believe the main reason for him was they took up to much space he never said but the drivers were glad to see the unit removed from the bays
I have a friend that has lost boards in his 3 units but I think that was his fault and you are reading other places about peoples unit breaking freon lines and I did see the line broke off at the compressor on 1 at Taylor's place
I am sure Bob and others will make it work I just want to see the results in the long run
I do know that 1 or 2 -9000 btu units will not cool a bus here and I can find no boat builder or bus converter using the units yet
If I was full timing and plugged into clean power all the time I would give it a try because I am not happy with my Penguins
good luck
Clifford-what's wrong with your Penguin's? I used two of them to create a basement air-hope I didn't make a wrong choice? I went by Camping World and the said the Penguin's are the best A/C made-meaning least amount of maintenance. Good Luck, TomC
TomC mine just don't move enough air and the dumb plastic fans they seem to be doing better now with the metal fans since I replaced the plastic fans with metal fans in the last week or so from WW Grainger
good luck
I had Nick explain to me the difference between the 13,500btu and the 15,000btu was that both have the same compressor, evaporator and condenser. But the 15,000btu bumps the blower motor from 1/4hp to 1/3hp to better accommodate using with ducted system. Maybe look into switching to the more powerful blower motor? Good Luck, TomC
I was told the exact same thing TomC there was no difference in the 13,000 and 15,000 btu Penguin except the fan motor I didn't know where to believe the guy or not and Graniger does have the motors for 1/2 the price from Dometic so I'll try it thanks
good luck
Mini-Split: My choice. I am sorry if I led someone astray! I trade off problems with function with.. I did fasten all my lines down securely and units. Also watched to purchase units that reset automatically after talking with Nick and Dwayne (MCI 8 tin tent) is close by and a friend for over 40 years has had his installed for 5plus years. no problems. He has two condensers in one bay with. With a window fan sucking air in from bottom to aid in circulation. He is a Hvac guy. I put one condenser in spare tire compartment. One in old condenser compartment. and one in old evaporator compartment. everything is solid! I have the $57 recharge kit with me just in case and a portable torch and silver with flux(the solder and torch has ridden around in tool box for years).I have a 24000 208 volt Minni in my home . my 30 day cooling cost in this midwest 100 plus mess went from 245 last year to 88 this year. Draw your own conclusions. No way 2 tons should replace 8 tons of cooling (20yr old units) and drop bill that much. looking forward to next bill.
Bob,I know how good they work in homes and motels just waiting on you to hit road and give us a report the problem I have is how cheap they are to operate that is always mention
I know you are on the pole most of the time but most like myself are not so the cost of power is not a important factor cold air on the road or parked in the AZ heat with the generator for power that is what I am looking for
I would like to know how they handle the dirty power from some generators
I am not a big fan of the roof mounted RV units the shrouds last a few years and blow off if lucky they miss the car behind and the replacement shrouds are outargues in price that would be one reason for splits IMO get well and hit the road soon
good luck
I'm playing with a inverter system in a roof air configuration to make install simple. Someone needs to update the current rv systems. Doing this for personal use on another project. The industry has no reason to change! Bob
That will be good deal Bob roof airs suck the way they are now
I forgot to mention that the bus at Taylors had a ONAN diesel inverter type generator and the AC's were inverter type either the generator didn't like the AC units or the AC's didn't care for the generator they had a tough time with communication so he didn't won't to fool with it anymore so out came the AC units
I'm not sure I'm understanding correctly. Is there a problem using the mini-splits with my generator? I just have a 4K Onan right now (someday I hope to grow up and have a big one like you).
Robert, how do you get enough air flow in the internal compartments?
Dave
That is the question I am asking Dave so far no answers but a 4k is not going to run 3
I don't plan to run three... not on the generator. I would like to install three, then if I have pole power it would be available, but unlikely. I don't go to AZ or TX. I can't take heat, so I'll stick with northern states in the summer.
I would like to be able to run two from the generator. But to clarify the question, is there a problem with my generator power being clean enough for the mini-splits?
Dave
I am trying find that also guess it depends on the unit and I don't think your 4k is going to run 2 it may after start up
with the inverter style there is no power surge on start up and adjusting speed of fan or temp. on the non inverter style it will dim the lights with a 12000 btu unit. actual experience.. The 9000 pulls max amps of 6 amps includes start up (inverter) the 12000 inverter is around 8amps max . the non inverter style is much more but runs(12000) at about 9.7amps. Bob
Actually Dave came up with a thought. I notices the home unit had a fine coat of cotton wood seed on it covering the condenser. It didn't effect the unit. I cleaned it off of coarse. But clean condensers have been a problem with Cruise air and other ac systems so why couldn't we use a foam type precleaner like some window units have over them and keep intake air cleaner? Just remembering the back of my MCI 8 use to get dirty. Bob
My crazy idea is getting some traction in my mind. It would solve a few issues.
One, I would free up some valuable bay space.
Two, I would have great air flow without creating an additional electrical load or cutting open sections of the bus for air.
Three, I could keep the generator in the bus A/C compartment.
Four, I could add an "engine-driven" A/C condenser in the same space as my generator (there is space still).
Five, I can keep my spare tire in the spare tire compartment.
Stop me before I jump off the deep end if I'm crazy.
Bob, it sounds like an "inverter type" A/C unit is the system of choice. How much more expensive?
Does anyone have a good source?
Dave
Quote from: Tikvah on July 30, 2012, 05:15:06 AM(snip) Bob, it sounds like an "inverter type" A/C unit is the system of choice. How much more expensive?
Does anyone have a good source?
I'd appreciate discussion on these points and info from people who have "been there" too. Thanks, Bruce H NC USA
This is one I have on my "ready to purchase" list.
http://www.minisplitshop.com/store/product.php?productid=261&cat=0&page=1 (http://www.minisplitshop.com/store/product.php?productid=261&cat=0&page=1)
$460 and free shipping.
suggest if you don't have heat source get one that does both. I know works well down to 12F that's my hands on experience. have not tried any lower. Bob
Quote from: Tikvah on July 30, 2012, 05:58:36 AM
This is one I have on my "ready to purchase" list.
http://www.minisplitshop.com/store/product.php?productid=261&cat=0&page=1 (http://www.minisplitshop.com/store/product.php?productid=261&cat=0&page=1)
$460 and free shipping.
Are you ordering the 9KBTU or the 12.5? It would seem worthwhile to go with the 12.5; it's the same package size, minimal sound level difference, and only a small additional power draw for ~35% more cooling.
I trust Bob if he gives a take on something it works for him but his bus is parked on the power pole.
I know that Jeff Foreman hangs around here (sure there are others) and is 1 of largest mechanical contractors in the Phoenix area I would like the mechanical guys take on the units for mobile use Nick where are you lol
I do know the inverter type generator produces the cleanest power at a cost through all the electronic crap they have, electronic boards and dirty generator power don't do good sometimes the power goes to the board first it tells the unit what it wants done right or wrong ?
For the life of me I cannot see a 9000 btu unit out performing a 13,000 or 15,000 unit btu's are btu's ? the SEAR rating I cannot see a advantage in a RV's
I am missing something here guys help me out I have been to the Coleman factory in KS saw the way BTU's on their unit are measured
I have been to Goodman plant in Houston I saw the way they determined the BTU's on the house units same deal no difference in the 2 this very confusing to me lol help me understand this
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on July 30, 2012, 06:28:04 AM
Quote from: Tikvah on July 30, 2012, 05:58:36 AM
This is one I have on my "ready to purchase" list.
http://www.minisplitshop.com/store/product.php?productid=261&cat=0&page=1 (http://www.minisplitshop.com/store/product.php?productid=261&cat=0&page=1)
$460 and free shipping.
Are you ordering the 9KBTU or the 12.5? It would seem worthwhile to go with the 12.5; it's the same package size, minimal sound level difference, and only a small additional power draw for ~35% more cooling.
I planned to use a 9000 unit in the bedroom, and the 12,000 up front. The one in the middle could be either.
Dave
Quote from: luvrbus on July 30, 2012, 07:02:08 AM(snip) For the life of me I cannot see a 9000 btu unit out performing a 13,000 or 15,000 unit btu's are btu's ? the SEAR rating I cannot see a advantage in a RV's
For my bus, I can't use any kind of rooftop air conditioner. So for me, it's going to have to be a unit like "basement air" or something like a mini-split. The 15KBTU roof tops are fine but I can't see any way to use one (although I am following Tom C's "ducted" installation very closely). I am also disallowing Garhawk's "redneck air conditioner" installation -- ie. a window unit from Home Depot stuck in the window and propped up with a 2X4 -- lol, as you'd say!
I haven't made up my mind, but packaging is making me look at mini-splits. Even if they're no better than a roof top, that would be fine - it looks like they'll fit in my bus. And the good SEER means low power use for the same amount of cool -- and that's gotta be a good thing. And I see what you say about Bob being on a power pole a lot and looking at an electric bill but more power costs more more money if it comes from a generator or an engine alternator, too. I don't trust published numbers blindly but I have to say that the power requirements (amps) for the mini-splits look good compared to rooftops.
I am concerned about "dirty power" causing problems and also about vibration and road shock damage but I like Mr. Glines's solutions to these issues. I agree that it would be good to hear from people who deal with these things for a living, and I guess time and use will tell us a lot, too.
Thanks for keeping this conversation going. Bruce H NC USA
Quote from: Tikvah on July 30, 2012, 07:25:43 AM
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on July 30, 2012, 06:28:04 AM
Quote from: Tikvah on July 30, 2012, 05:58:36 AM
This is one I have on my "ready to purchase" list.
http://www.minisplitshop.com/store/product.php?productid=261&cat=0&page=1 (http://www.minisplitshop.com/store/product.php?productid=261&cat=0&page=1)
$460 and free shipping.
Are you ordering the 9KBTU or the 12.5? It would seem worthwhile to go with the 12.5; it's the same package size, minimal sound level difference, and only a small additional power draw for ~35% more cooling.
I planned to use a 9000 unit in the bedroom, and the 12,000 up front. The one in the middle could be either. Dave
I have a 10K generator and a 50Amp shore system so I figger I have a pretty good supply of power. I'll go with the 12.5's everywhere, I think. Thanks for your input and thanks for the link direct to the 'minisplit' website.
QuoteI am concerned about "dirty power" causing problems
I would like someone to address this issue. Are the mini-splits overly sensitive so that they risk damage from our generators?
Dave
I doubt the splits would cause generator problems maybe the other way around dirty power will do sensitive electronics damage that why most electric fridges are ran through the inverter on RV's so I was told
I do know for a fact generators if not set right will do the control board damage on the ducted RV AC unit like a Carrier or others and the 110 control board on the RV fridges
With the splits I have no idea but I have seen 3 replaced on the split units switching from shore to generator that is all I know
Maybe Jerry and others that have been running Minni for years will see and chime in. I know Dwayne have been in use for 5 yrs.. I think Jerry steps his voltage up to the 208 units. I'm learning as I go and will adjust. I built basement air out of 2ea window ac and it worked for 7yrs till I had a ground failure that surged 220 to a unit and fried one compressor. left one basement running. the ground failure was in a 50 amp factory plug end and was intermittent. Bob
Quote from: robertglines1 on July 30, 2012, 09:52:11 AM(snip) I think Jerry steps his voltage up to the 208 units. (snip)
Does Jerry run 3-phase? If so, I hope that he'll tell us why. Thanks for the info, I really appreciate the guidance on this one. Best wishes, BH NC USA
Actually I was confused to : my house unit was advertised 208-230 when I got it it just showed hooking up two hot wires to it (line 1 and line2) and green to case-- what I consider safety ground. It runs 9 am draw 24000 btu. The same way we hook up some three phase motors and make them run on non three phase current. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND. not yelling I just don't. Just might be 220 without ground. past me. I understand Jerry steps up voltage. Maybe to 220 with ground. I don't understand this inverter DC 48volt theory just know it's working. Prob would fry my brain LOL Bob
Quote from: robertglines1 on July 30, 2012, 11:11:34 AM(snip) . Prob would fry my brain LOL Bob
If it's got those electrictron things, it *will* fry mine! But usually 208V is 3-phase but that's about all this inexperience mind knows. That big a capacity unit would be wonderful if it would run on 120V. I'm looking forward to more info so I can understand.
3 phase compressors are only used in commercial refrigeration and you cannot start one on a single phase
I followed advice here on how to start a 3 phase electric motor on single phase and can tell you for sure it doesn't work on a 3 phase Copeland compressor and I cannot see a single phase compressor working on 3 phase either
208 volt can also be single phase. A building that has 208 three phase can supply 208 volt as single phase.
This topic is sliding off the wrong side of the hill. I don't mind, but I'm still looking for ideas and advice.
Any problems placing the condensers outside the bus?
Is there a problem with generators not producing clean power that will affect the Mini-Splits?
Those who use the Mini-Splits already, If installed in the bay, how do you get enough air flow over the condensers?
I'm only using 4K 115V
Dave
On a 3 phase building using a single phase 208v what do use as a return path for a AC unit ?
I know it does Dave but is sort of relevant, if your gen set has two legs. two separate line feeds. Clifford no return path. I don't know how it works. Dave many have been run successfully on gen sets. The question at hand I think is can the be run on inverter style gen sets? which yours is not. Sorry for thread drift. We are all looking for answers also. Looking to be noted the ones Clifford mentioned were run (if I remember rite) almost 100 thousand miles. Probably more miles than I will ever put on mine and I assure you I will watch mine more than a driver for hire. Good solid mount and solid line mount will be the secret to success. In bay a vented exit the size of fan blade on condenser and a larger intake with forced air from supplemental fan to overcome road vacuum when driving. When parked no need for extra fan. I know that from experience. suck in bottom exit out side.. The fan moves allot of air and is variable speed as needed. I did seal fan exhaust against door with soft rubber so it would not recirculate it's own exhaust air. Bob