I am asking for a friend he just bought a J4500 conversion (empty) shell it is 3 years old but new! with 2 slides he will be along when he is approved for the board by trade he is a yacht builder in CA it should be some bus when done.
Scott was asking about headroom that baby has plenty almost 7 foot
You guys help him he is a very nice guy and a good person goes by the name of "singlebarrel" not a gun he got the name because of the Jack Daniels he likes so well.
In case you are wondering I had his permission to tell that lol so go easy on him for a few weeks
Great! Hope he posts here. I'd love to watch the process. That's a nice rig!
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Faee811ce-b55b-789e.jpg&hash=42157baba611e31741d33d57b459f14f87dc49b1)
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His has a different roof line that the photo you posted
2 slides and a different roof line...?
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mcicoach.com%2Fimages%2Fj4500convSpec.jpg&hash=d2a4589a051aaf6f665567e14d6e42201021175f)
Drooling over that ^
Oh so pretty...
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I like the bus too Scott those are good looking buses,he sold a 2007 Prevost Liberty to buy the bus and it was beautiful bus
I'm curious why someone would sell a 2007 Prevost to change to a late model MCI?
I love the looks of them also, a guy can dream can't he.
Quote from: belfert on May 24, 2012, 05:45:18 PM
I'm curious why someone would sell a 2007 Prevost to change to a late model MCI?
Well he might be try'n to work his way up to a Setra! ;)
;D BK ;D
Brian,he never like the laminates in his Prevost he is a solid wood type guy you know yacht builders love wood he will explain,that's funny BK I don't care who you are
;D
Bryce and his setras. :)
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I think the new Setras look really nice on the exterior. I have never been inside one to judge the interior. I've only seen one Setra on the road here in Minneapolis. They aren't nearly as popular with the coach operators as the Prevost, MCI, or even Van Hool. Van Hool tends to be somewhat popular locally since ABC Companies has a large facility locally.
Guys, in new busses, isn't the best of the MCIs as good as the best of the Prevosts, or is it apples and oranges? Lvmci...
I would take an MCI over a Prevost anytime.
JC
When you buy a new bus(s) you are not just buying the bus. You are buying the support, service and parts availability, warranty and how it's honored, financing, and residual value in 5-10 years plus a host of other important items. Prevost is head and shoulders above the rest in these areas. Best mfg in the biz IMHO.
On one of my conversions, I was working with a shipright. his scribing lines, and perfect mating with wood could mean this will be a beyond awesome finish job.
I hope I get to see that workmanship some day.
Welcome singlebarrel
PCC
Hope to see his work. singlebarrel will be capton of the black top ;D
Kevin
I think I'll stick to my MUI 6V92TA @ 350HP in my '82 RTS. I can fix anything that goes wrong with it and getting parts is not a problem. I'm not a check-book converter.
--Geoff
Quote from: Geoff on May 25, 2012, 05:46:46 PMI think I'll stick to my MUI 6V92TA @ 350HP in my '82 RTS. I can fix anything that goes wrong with it and getting parts is not a problem. (snip)
Yeah, but it would be heaven to not have to deal with dirt, corrosion, and damage before I do *anything*. But not in this lifetime. I guess I could be a checkbook converter but the bus would probably end up as flat as my checkbook. Not good ...
My bus is from California and had no corrosion, dirt?- yes. But the frame and stainless steel looked almost new. One thing (besides the electronics) I don't like about the newer buses is the non-opening windows. You spend a fortune just getting started buying windows!
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on May 25, 2012, 05:50:31 PM
Quote from: Geoff on May 25, 2012, 05:46:46 PMI think I'll stick to my MUI 6V92TA @ 350HP in my '82 RTS. I can fix anything that goes wrong with it and getting parts is not a problem. (snip)
Yeah, but it would be heaven to not have to deal with dirt, corrosion, and damage before I do *anything*. But not in this lifetime. I guess I could be a checkbook converter but the bus would probably end up as flat as my checkbook. Not good ...
If one buys a new conversion shell they'll put in whatever windows you want. Coach buses haven't had opening windows since what, the 70s? You can still get brand new transit buses with opening windows although some are ordering them with frameless windows now.
Quote from: Geoff on May 26, 2012, 07:41:37 AM
My bus is from California and had no corrosion. . .
Geoff -
I'm having a senior moment right now. . . I seem to remember that your RTS is an ex-GGT coach?
???
Geoff define "check book converter"lol it took a check book to convert my Eagle I got sick of pay Dick Wright and others
I am sure that this could turn out to be a spectacular conversion. Obviously, it is not for everyone. Cost is one factor, the joy of tinkering is another. It all depends on what you are looking for. I, like some here, would be uncomfortable in a vehicle that is too impressive even if I could afford it, which is not to say I can not appreciate the innovation and craftsmanship that can be done. I do enjoy looking at them. There are just different ways of looking at the world though. For example, my 5a has wood grain laminate on the walls. There are some here that would feel that laminates are tacky enough and would ridicule the idea of trying to make plastic look like wood. I, on the other hand, think that laminates can be amazingly durable and just happen to like the wood grain appearance. Taking it from a different perspective, I have seen some wonderful craftsmanship in wood, particularly in pictures of yachts. The funny thing is that those crafts have been developed to such a level of fluidity that it often seems that they are trying to make wood look like plastic. Accomplishing this wood-to-plastic transformation is a terrific skill and demonstration of virtuosity. If you like it, can do it or pay for it, and take pleasure in that result, go for it. However, if you are of the opinion that lack of a very finite budget and various other rules of engagement would seem like playing tennis without the net, than play the game as you want. It's all good, man.
Quote from: luvrbus on May 26, 2012, 03:57:59 PM
Geoff define "check book converter"lol it took a check book to convert my Eagle I got sick of pay Dick Wright and others
A "checkbook converter" is a person who converts a bus by paying others to do all the work and then takes credit for "his conversion" by acting like he did the conversion.
He is going to convert his own he is lucky he has employes what's wrong with paying someone to do things you have no idea on what you are doing
I have paid before most of the time twice including the first time I screwed it up lol
Me I think it is neat a guy that can afford a 6 figure shell to convert his way ever since I knew him it was a dream for him to build his own bus now it looks like it is going to happen
Quote from: luvrbus on May 26, 2012, 04:52:17 PM(snip) ever since I knew him it was a dream for him to build his own bus now it looks like it is going to happen
The "dream" is the thing ...
Quote from: luvrbus on May 26, 2012, 04:52:17 PM
He is going to convert his own he is lucky he has employes what's wrong with paying someone to do things you have no idea on what you are doing
I have paid before most of the time twice including the first time I screwed it up lol
Me I think it is neat a guy that can afford a 6 figure shell to convert his way ever since I knew him it was a dream for him to build his own bus now it looks like it is going to happen
Yes, I understand that completely. But I was talking about taking credit for other people's work. For instance, if you watch the car restoration shows on TV they always give credit to the people they call in to help them. What I have a problem with is people that show off their conversions and act like THEY did all the work when they actually paid other people to do the work. I have no problem paying skilled people to do work for you, just don't steal their work as your own.
--Geoff
The stuff I've paid for labor on mine is pretty minimal. Probably 2/3 of the mechanical work I paid for, but I did the rest. I paid a friend $100 to help with his forklift to install the generator, but I was there and bolted it in, and I prepped the generator space beforehand.
The interior I did 100% myself except the flooring. Well, I did have friends help with the interior, but their only pay was lunch or dinner. I was there working right beside them the whole time.
I drive one of these J4500's on a regular basis so here is the report:
It is the nicest driving coach I ever drove. Acceleration, stopping, suspension, ease of control and ergonomics are fantastic. The headlights and side spots make night driving a breeze. The engine bay is well laid out for daily precheck. Even the battery water in the power bay is checkable. The bays are huge. The frame is stainless steel and the body is fiberglass. That fiberglass scratches readily. Things that never leave a mark on an old coach make an immediate impression on fiberglass. All the insulated glass windows on the sides fogged up but were replaced under warranty. That glass is glued in. It regularly rains inside at the joints. The plastic bumper on the door fell off. Looking at the design, it was never made to stay on. The fiberglass frame on the entrance door is beginning to crack. Some things just have to be made of steel to work properly. So far the electronics have worked well. The J model has come a long way. When it was introduced the bumpers fell off, electronics failed, it caught on fire etc. That proves that given time, Canada can compete with China, except in Vancouver, which is already China.
Quote from: dougyes on May 26, 2012, 06:45:17 PM
That proves that given time, Canada can compete with China...
Perhaps, given a lot more time, they'll even be able to compete with Germany...
Jeremy
Thats it. I'm writing Toyota and personally going to ask them to manufacture a single bus for me. 4WD with diff lock and I'll be happy. Speaking of which what is the most reliable bus one can buy? A skoolie?
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If the bus company is still building buses, they are built well. ALL the new buses are terribly complicated with all the electronics necessary to run the engine, and the emission controls, transmission, ABS braking system, traction control systems, A/C, YFi, satelite TV and radio, etc. Many new safety laws that have been implemented since the 60's and 70's also contributing to the buses gaining weight. Good Luck, TomC
i like when i go to the car shows and talk to some guy with a 100k car who says he built it.. Then when i ask him how he built something like the 4 link system he can't answer.. ;D ;D ;D
This happens all the time.
My work is occasionally done more than once when i am doing it. (sometimes even on customers stuff)
Quote from: Scott Bennett on May 27, 2012, 04:52:49 AM
Thats it. I'm writing Toyota and personally going to ask them to manufacture a single bus for me. 4WD with diff lock and I'll be happy. Speaking of which what is the most reliable bus one can buy? A skoolie?
I would guess that an older non-electronic schoolie or transit bus might be the most reliable as long as all worn parts are replaced. Some of the issues with older buses are electrical, but they can be rewired fairly easily. I thought long and hard about rewiring my bus from the ground up, but with the electronic engine and tranny I decided it would be a nightmare to do. There are wiring bundles the size of my arm going front to back. There are also 40+ pages of wiring diagrams and they are 11"x17".
If you're talking most reliable new bus they all have tons of electronics these days.
Quote from: Scott Bennett on May 27, 2012, 04:52:49 AM
Speaking of which, what is the most reliable bus one can buy? A skoolie?
Scott -Probably the most simple, rugged and dependable highway coach ever built was the PD4104.
Crown gets the same kudos for their skoolies, especially the "twinkie" body in (rare) pusher configuration.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Rugged reliability and high end luxury generally do not go hand in hand: Skoolie vs Liberty Prevost, Humvee (the real one) vs Beemer. Decisions, decisions, decisions!
The most reliable bus there is, is one on a sales lot ANYWHERE!
Just ask the seller an they'll tell you "there is nothing wrong with this bus, I'd jump in it and drive it around the world." (they leave out the "but this thing had broke me so now I have no fuel $" part!)
;D BK ;D
Quote from: RJ on May 26, 2012, 03:50:44 PM
Quote from: Geoff on May 26, 2012, 07:41:37 AM
My bus is from California and had no corrosion. . .
Geoff -
I'm having a senior moment right now. . . I seem to remember that your RTS is an ex-GGT coach?
???
Yes, I have a Golden Gate Transit bus that was used for urban freeway commutes to San Francisco and Santa Rosa, it was called a Suburban rather than a transit because it was geared for the freeway, but had to meet the Federal Regulations for handicap travel thus the rear door with the wheel chair lift. I believe there was 2x RTS made than MCI 9's making it the most produced bus ever made. Parts are easy to get, the the bus is well made, and does not fall apart. That is why Newy York kept buying them after GM dropped out of the picture-- It was the most durable bus made that could take the NY potholes.
I love my RTS-- the best bus ever built.
--Geoff
Geoff -
I totally agree about the build quality of the RTS, especially the second generation and later units, after GM got the "real world" teething problems worked out on the slope-backs. Of course, the argument still rages on as to whether or not the IFS was better than the solid axle for ride quality. . . LOL!!
Back when I worked in transit, I was really good friends with the late Marcel Sales, the training supervisor at GGT. He often told me if I was interested in an RTS, he'd pick the cream of the crop for me. Alas, that never happened. . .
As you well know, GGT took exceptionally good care of their equipment, and their purchasing dept was intelligent enough to spec their vehicles appropriately for the type of operation GGT runs. I think they were one of the few that ordered their Suburbans with highway gearing, an unusual order for most builders. That and the non-reclining recliner seating to keep the "suits" happy during their daily commute into the City.
You and Pete Pappas are certainly two of the best cheerleaders for the RTS - even tho Pete's sold his. :'(
One of these days I'll get down your way and we'll have a chat. . .
RJ
From 1964 to 1967 I was a "suit" commuting on Greyhound's 4103s and 4104s from Novato to San Francisco. I believe they were 4103s, they had a steering column shift.
Guess this was before GGT. Never then did I know that 20 years later I'd have a 4104!
GaryD
Interesting reading your takes on reliable buses. It's interesting because I've pondered the money involved in keeping them up to snuff and felt in my heart a cringe for people like the Lord family and wondered what a good option is for someone looking for reliability and simplicity (never been a fan of electronics). But im learning that it somewhat comes down to realizing that these busses were hundreds of thousands of dollars when brand new and take that much to upkeep over their life span. I come along and see that I can buy one and convert it for less than $30k and am unprepared mentally for the constant care and $$$'s it requires to maintain it. Sometimes the tiny entrance fee belies the large upkeep fees. Love my bus dearly, but sometimes think life is simpler with a power stroke and fifth wheel
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Anything can be made reliable if well maintained. It does, as mentioned, take money, but mostly diligence and a thorough PM program. And sometimes modifying a design flaw, such as, since Powerstrokes were mentioned, bypassing/deleting the EGR system in the 6.0 liter.
JC
Good point. And please know that we are loving our bus, but it's old and wasn't in amazing condition to begin with. So someday I would love to get a coach maintained by one of you :-) and be able to start with a well maintained bus.
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I guess I will stick with my 1991 stainless 20 ton 500 hp 2 stroke Prevost that just hit 60,000 miles.
Quote from: muldoonman on May 28, 2012, 08:12:56 AM
I guess I will stick with my 1991 stainless 20 ton 500 hp 2 stroke Prevost that just hit 60,000 miles.
Damn, sounds like you are ready for some major work...
LOL
-Geoff
But Scott, what kind of shape will that 5th wheel be in when it hits 2 or 3 million miles? ;D
Quote from: Ed Hackenbruch on May 28, 2012, 09:45:17 PM
But Scott, what kind of shape will that 5th wheel be in when it hits 2 or 3 million miles? ;D
You mean if it even exists anymore. For sure a bus is a superior machine than an S&S of any sort, some don't use their buses enough to justify it. We do... But I'm prepared to be underneath it more than I'm sitting in the drivers seat. And truth is, I have been since day 1. Part of the scope of ownership.
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Spring of '09 I bought a brand new fifth wheel. It was a mid-high level so it wasn't junk. We had it for just over a year, and though it was of good quality and we really loved it, it became clear that it would not last more than another couple years as a full-time highway moving rig. They are just not built to go the miles. Though the bus is not near as nice or as much room, at least I know that the next pothole I hit i'm not going to have to go back and pick up my batteries or replace the sewer line. Or the next time I blow a tire I'm not going to have to completely rebuild one whole side of the vehicle.
Or if you crash you just might have a fighting chance.
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