I've replaced a bunch of fuel lines and I still get air in the line, especially after the coach sits for a few days. After priming the filter it fires right up. I was thinking of installing a little fuel pump at the tank to add some boost to get it started. Can I put one inline in the fuel line? Advance Auto sells a bunch of inexpensive little fuel pumps. Any suggestions on which pump to get?
I would figure out why the coach is losing prime after sitting just a few days and then worry about a pump once it is fixed. A pump would just be a band aid and not a real fix. My bus can sit all winter and it will fire right up after all that time.
Checked your profile: what kind of bus do you have? Bob
102 DL3 with a series 60
I agree with the bandaide-my '77 AMGeneral transit bus can sit for weeks and still fires up like I ran it yesterday.
I watched Don Fairchild prime up my 8V-71 after he replaced the head to head cross fuel line. He first disconnected one hose at a time-filled the hose with Diesel then reattached it. Then filled the fuel filters with fuel and tried to fire the engine. He did the whole thing 4 times, then it started and kept on running. While Don has used a primer pump on the secondary filter-which is AFTER the fuel pump-he will not use any kind of primer pump before the fuel pump. Why-he says that the seals on the low pressure transfer pump can easily be blown out by a primer pump. If you do put a primer pump in, only after the fuel pump-not at the tank. Good Luck, TomC
Doug some where on the line from the tank to the first filter there is a back flow valve that keeps the fuel from draining back into the tank. start looking back toward the tank it should be close to filterer. Tony
I just finished an engine swap. One post I read in the archives suggested what Tom C said. I just finished bought my pump at Oreilys. Installed before the Secondary filter and it worked fine. My system was pretty dry. Clifford also suggested the same location.
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Here is the type of pump I used. I used the 24 volt one. I just put it in line in the main fuel line to the primary filter, on my 8V71 I don't think there is anything that will be hurt by 10 - 14 psi for 10 seconds... I just run it for a few seconds, you can hear when it reaches pressure and that means everything is full. If I leave it on, the fuel pressure switch stops the engine from turning over. I suspect that your main line check valve needs servicing.
Brian
Quote from: bevans6 on April 17, 2012, 05:21:27 AM(snip) I used the 24 volt one. I just put it in line in the main fuel line to the primary filter, on my 8V71 (snip)
Yeah, but a Series 60 is an electronic engine and they're often touchy about fuel pressure (the fuel pressure is read by a sensor and it's factored in by the computer for Start of Injection timing, Injection Quantity, etc.) For an ordinary mechanical engine, I think a primer pump is a good idea; for an electronic engine, I'd definitely find the problem and fix it.
The new stuff all comes with a priming pump from the factory.
What are they doing?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Priming pumps don't hurt the seals Don must have had a bad pump seal to start with, on the older stuff 2 strokes that is a 65 psi + pump I have one in the shop I saved for Don took me 131 lbs of air pressure to blow the seal and it was a wore out pump
good luck
I can tell you what the fuel pump does not like, and that is to be starved for fuel. I have one with a sheared drive gear shaft (sheared within the pump housing) that I pulled from my old 6-92 in Amarillo bringing the coach home. I was having the same issue LarryH was having (in the other thread) in B-town Ca. cept that I had a collapsed supply line to the primary, which starved it of fuel and lubrication to the drive gear shaft. While stuck in Amarillo waiting for a replacement to come in, I pulled the old one apart and to my amazement, the shaft was separated from the gear and pulled out of the housing. Here's some pix.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi457.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq292%2Fcwvanhagen%2FFuelpump.jpg&hash=17be4a8577d48445cbe308e0675801072af87c36)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi457.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq292%2Fcwvanhagen%2F564851_212106825571025_100003151260778_384004_321187651_n.jpg&hash=6ef0407951d047bc8b95a8058a3522d8254a7918)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi457.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq292%2Fcwvanhagen%253Cbr%2520%2F%253E%2F576687_212107148904326_100003151260778_384005_93801786_n.jpg&hash=6d0ade378276a323b7c909fef4822fe85af42dbd)
V
My Primer is installed inline, before the primary filter. Almost 5 years, and no problemo's ;)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi457.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq292%2Fcwvanhagen%2F001-15.jpg&hash=60235dc8ffdc337d6e04904eb15253fdb57365ca)
Quote from: luvrbus on April 17, 2012, 08:34:25 AM
Priming pumps don't hurt the seals Don must have had a bad pump seal to start with, on the older stuff 2 strokes that is a 65 psi + pump I have one in the shop I saved for Don took me 131 lbs of air pressure to blow the seal and it was a wore out pump
good luck
Whew! Good to hear that. I installed a Facet-Purolator Posi-Flo 60100 electronic fuel pump for priming, and it's between the primary filter (in my case, a Racor 900FG) and the engine's fuel pump. I specifically chose this pump because it's for older carburetor-equipped cars which need lower fuel pressure than newer fuel-injected cars. I think it produces only a few PSI, which I hope won't be damaging any seals! I've had to use it only once, and after running it a few minutes the engine started right up with hardly a hiccup. So far, so good.
Thanks, John
Van, What model primer pump is that in the picture?
Guys, I'll try to find the check vale.
Doug, I don't have the #'s but it is the very same one in the photo that Brian posted (12 volt) in post #7. I put a lighted on/off rocker switch in the Batt compartment to power it up. ;) It is a free flow pump, with built in check valve and is Diesel rated. All the best! :)
Doug, the pump is made by Airtex. They have 12 volt and 24 volt versions, it's designed for diesel fuel. The link to the catalog page is http://www.showmetheparts.com/airtex/ (http://www.showmetheparts.com/airtex/)
Here is where we did this last August: http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?action=printpage;topic=21134.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?action=printpage;topic=21134.0)
Brian
Quote from: bevans6 on April 17, 2012, 05:21:27 AM
Here is the type of pump I used. I used the 24 volt one. I just put it in line in the main fuel line to the primary filter, on my 8V71 I don't think there is anything that will be hurt by 10 - 14 psi for 10 seconds... I just run it for a few seconds, you can hear when it reaches pressure and that means everything is full. If I leave it on, the fuel pressure switch stops the engine from turning over. I suspect that your main line check valve needs servicing.
Brian
Brian;
Cute little 24v fuel pump. Where did you get it?
Merle.
I bought my pump at Princess Auto in Canada, I don't know where to get them in the US.
Brian
An MCI102D3 with S60 should allready have a primer pump . Pump sits on top of the fuel tank , plumbed parallel to the fuel line with check valves. switch is in the rear left panel in engine compartment next to the coolant fill pump !!!!
when i picked up mine it had one allready installed and the other buses on the lot had all the same setup with no marks that somebody retrofitted these later.
Another thing you might want to verify when you find the check valve is that the flow arrow is rolled to the top side of the fuel line. These are a swing check which means the flapper inside is on a hinge. Due to the force of gravity a swing check works better if hinge is on top. It hinges where the arrow is stamped.
Larry B
For you GM guys out there, here is mine. I installed it after the fuel pump and before the secondary filter. I ran it for about a minute and i was good to go. I got it at Car Quest but it is the same one that Brian installed in his above referenced post.
Enjoy,
TM
I didn't know if an in line fuel pump not operating might impede the fuel flow so I made a bypass circuit for mine. It is installed between the tank and the primary filter and it is a 24volt Carter. I think I special ordered it from NAPA.
Fred
Fred, since that pump is indeed a flow through pump, you no longer have a shut-off valve. If you turn that valve, fuel will continue to flow through the pump just fine. If you want to keep the bypass feature and have a shut-off capability, you need to add another valve either before or after the parallel section.
Brian
Edit: since we are showing pictures, here is my install on my MCI configured engine.
Thanks for all the good advice. Getting to the fuel tank looked daunting and we were in a bit of a hurry so we installed the Airtex 24v pump inline behind the fuel filter. There was an unused momentary switch about a foot away from the filter to power the pump. Works ok so far.
Doug,
Three others have asked before me, but I will go ahead and ask myself (maybe it was just two others). Why not use the priming pump that comes with your coach? If you have a D series, it should have a priming pump, at least all of the D's I have seen.
There is that yellow panel in your rear engine door. One of those switches is for the fuel priming pump. One switch is to add coolant from the overflow tank up to the rad. Another switch is for engine start, another is to shut the engine completely off, and the other should be for your rear engine service lights.
Does your OEM pump not work?
John
Most small electric pumps work best when near the tank since they are suction from the tank to the pump.
The big advantage to a near tank pump is if there is a small leak in the supply line it will pump fuel out and show up when the near tank pump is operated. A pump at the engine will not reveal this, it will just suck in air like the engine pump.
John316:
Ours did not come with a stock priming pump. It may have been an option.
Gus:
That's a good point about having it close to the tank. It was just a easy install with plenty of elbow room in the engine bay!