Hope a DeLORME EARTHMATE GPS LT-20 is a good toy. I just bought a unit off Ebay for $51 bucks. Shipped for $6. bucks more.
FWIW, there seems to be a good many of the things on EPlace for $59 bucks. Probably obsolete....says 2006. Hope they're not Chinese knockoffs.
Appear to be getting cheaper all the time.
As an unitiated GPS user, what does 4 million (or whatever the count is) "interesting" stops cover? Fuel stops?
Does the software easily install into the laptop? Any pitfalls with the Delorme package? Anything a GPS newbie should know?
Thanks, JR
JR,
Thats nothing new. I just saw my Pioneer navigation system [AVICN2] that I paid over 2000.00 for a year and a half ago, selling for $799.00. ARRRGGGGG.
Electronics have to be the most depreciated products out there..
Nick-
Hi Nick, I was just looking at your system a few minutes ago...as someone said when you posted it, waaaay oughta my budget! Very nice though.
Opening the box on modern electronics obsoletes them. I was looking at notebooks and saw the Toshiba that we paid almost $2K for about 3 years ago, is $700 now. And it's probably a better, much faster item.
I'm thinking about buying another laptop for the GPS.
Plan to add a mount like Jack Conrad has, but in front of Terri. She's pretty good with marine GPS...she was very good with the old "Loran" systems...that took some thought. She couldn't tell you where you were, but could interpolate and mark up a chart. Just don't give her a roadmap. Something about a map that messes with the female brain.
I'm a sucker for a new toy. Thought the GPS would be useful in Florida this winter. We'll see. I have this "thing" about knowing where I'm at at any given time....and I can pretty much do that without the electronics...but life is so short! And, once off the interstates, it ain't so easy. When you're lost in a bus, you are lost.
Apparently, GPS now has land based transmitters, in addition to the sats, that function the same as the satellite signals. You can get a good fix in some places without seeing a satellite??
This is something that I'm a little late on. Any pertinant infor regarding the use of DeLorme 2006 will be appreciated.
JR
JR I just activated my gps on my nextel/sprint blackberry phone and have had a lot of fun with it, especially when we went walking in the park and driving across town. The voice commands are right on the money!
Another thing is it didn't cost that much to have activated!
Problem now is I can't hide anymore or fib about where I've been! ::)
Ace
Another good use for a GPS is for a speedometer if yours is broken. My speedometer is so far off that I bought a $99 handheld GPS at Walmart on my trip home with the bus. The GPS unit also serves as a extremely accurate trip odometer. (I could have paid less than $99, but no time to shop around.)
Just be sure to replace the batteries as necessary. I lost about 15 miles or so on my trip to BK's rally as the battery died.
Brian Elfert
I've got a standard hand-held GPS and another that looks like a small satellite radio antenna that connects to the USB port. I got the USB GPS new from eBay... I think it was around $25 including shipping. To me, it's one less thing to have to mount in the bus when what you're really going to be looking at is the notebook screen. The hand-held GPS's still have their uses, though. They're nice for walking, bike riding, boats, or when you don't have a more 'permanent' GPS, such as in a car.
David
Quote from: NJT5047 on October 30, 2006, 06:54:59 PM
Apparently, GPS now has land based transmitters, in addition to the sats, that function the same as the satellite signals. You can get a good fix in some places without seeing a satellite??
Don't know where you heard this but its not true. GPS signal has to come from a satellite. The newer receivers are much much more sensitive than the old ones were. My Garmin 40 used to take upwards of 15 minutes to acquire a signal and then promptly lose it every time we went under trees - and that was with an external antenna. My eTrex will get and hold a fix inside the bus with just the internal antenna.
What you may have heard about for land stations is something called WAAS. I don't know what the acronym stands for but what it does is provide a correction to the satellite location that makes your position more accurate and repeatable. My layman's understanding of the need for correction goes like this: the satellite signals have to travel through a lot of atmosphere in order to get to your receiver. That can cause some degradation of the accuracy of the calculation of your position. The WAAS station receives the same signals as you receive and calculates its position just the same way your receiver calculates its position. Big difference though - the WAAS station is fixed and some engineer has surveyed its EXACT position. So, when it calculates a position it can then subtract its exact position from the calculated position to determine a correction factor which it then transmits to your receiver. Your receiver takes that bit of information, adds it to the position it has already calculated and gives you a more precise location.
I may not know exactly HOW it works but I know it DOES work. We use it to autosteer custom application equipment in the field with under 1' precision pass to pass. That's close enough to get me through L.A. ;D
I got the Garmin GPS-18 package a while back. My laptop sits on a shelf next to the dash console
where i can see it. I use it in tracking mode, It shows me where I am and where I have been and even how I got there.
To get home I just follow the same course backwards.
The speedometer part and odometer is absolutely worth every penny.
I keep trip info on each destination, travel time and idle time ( moving & non-moving )
I then save the info with the landmarks I identify...
Not bad for $108 on TigerDirect...
The voice prompts will scare you if you forget and leave them on and the speaker volume all the way up....
Keep in mind that there will be inaccurate maps and streets in all the mapping systems and you have to remember
that info. There are streets and roads not in the maps and many that are there but don't really exist.
Have fun and go exploring some day.....
Almost forgot, I do have a brand new Garmin "Ledgends ETrix" hand held gps for sale if anyone wants to play around and get started! I have everything that came with it including the box.
Move this ad if you have to....
Ace
I removed price ACE
Nick-
Quote from: bobofthenorth on October 30, 2006, 07:29:23 PM
What you may have heard about for land stations is something called WAAS. I don't know what the acronym stands for ...
It stands for Wide Area Augmentation System. Here's some links that describes it (and some other terms) in general.
http://gpsinformation.net/exe/waas.html
http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/dgps.htm
http://www.garmin.com/aboutGPS/waas.html
Quote
I may not know exactly HOW it works but I know it DOES work. We use it to autosteer custom application equipment in the field with under 1' precision pass to pass. That's close enough to get me through L.A. ;D
WAAS cannot provide that kind of precision. It can bring the accuracy down to about 3-7 meters. And the farther you get away from the ground based stations, the less effective it is.
Most likely, if you're getting that kind of precision, you're not using WAAS, but rather a specialized form of DGPS, which is Differential GPS, and is a whole 'nother animal. DGPS basically removes all the error using precise surveyed ground stations which retransmit error corrections directly to the DGPS receiver, and can bring the precision down to about 1-5 meters accuracy. DGPS utilizes land based correction transmitters, and requires specialized receivers. Specialized dual frequency receivers are used for surveying and construction and can achieve higher accuracy than anything "off the shelf". High $$$ stuff.
craig
Quote from: gumpy on October 31, 2006, 05:31:57 AM
WAAS cannot provide that kind of precision. It can bring the accuracy down to about 3-7 meters. And the farther you get away from the ground based stations, the less effective it is.
Most likely, if you're getting that kind of precision, you're not using WAAS, but rather a specialized form of DGPS, which is Differential GPS, and is a whole 'nother animal. DGPS basically removes all the error using precise surveyed ground stations which retransmit error corrections directly to the DGPS receiver, and can bring the precision down to about 1-5 meters accuracy. DGPS utilizes land based correction transmitters, and requires specialized receivers. Specialized dual frequency receivers are used for surveying and construction and can achieve higher accuracy than anything "off the shelf". High $$$ stuff.
Actually WAAS can and does provide that level of precision. We've used the subscription systems and quit because of the cost and because WAAS provides everything we need. There are literally 1000s of farm implements in North America running on WAAS with sub-meter accuracy.
JR, I've been using Delorme products for many years - and have always been satisfied. I've used the earlier Tripmate, then an Earthmate GPS receiver (DeLorme products) in conjunction with Street Atlas USA. I just got an upgrade notice in the mail - Street Atlas 2007 is now available - list (non-upgrade price) is $39.95. I paid $99.00 for the Earthmate receiver about 3 years ago - at their main headquarters/store in Freeport Maine. (Anyone travelling just north of Portland should make this stop, on Route 1 just north of 295 - worthwhile just to see the 3-story model of the earth turning in the lobby).
Software upgrades are issued, about every year - with substantial discount for upgrading (my cost will be (32+shipping rather than $40+tax locally). The upgrades sometimes have new features, but mostly covers the new roads, and new/changed points of interest.
Regarding the points of interest - you can customize them to show hospitals, restaurants, shopping (by category), golf courses, fuel, etc. etc. etc. I use the software on my computers in the office to estimate deadhead times and mileages for bus routes, and use the points of interest to make sure there are fast food restaurants if I have to provide driver lunch breaks at remote timepoints (example, California). It's something to sit in my office in Dallas, and be able to be sure there's a Del Taco at some obscure timepoint in the Los Angeles basin. I also use it's route planning function to decide whether I want to fly into Tampa, or Fort Myers - to do work in Sarasota - estimating my ground travel time.
Now, what I perceive as the downside. Using this product software requires the notebook computer, set up on the passenger seat of the rental car - with the GPS receiver on the dashboard. Potential flying objects. I could set something up with one of my notebook computers on the dash of the 4107, but again I'd want everything secured. It would give me the bigger screen - the display is, of course, the size of the notebook screen.
What I use now, instead, is the Magellan Roadmate. I'm on my second unit - the older one had to be loaded, region by region, from a computer - had limited internal memory. When I ended up with a problem with the screen mounting from too many airplane and rental car rides, I upgraded last Summer to the Roadmate 760. Screen is about 3.5" diagonal - while not as large as a notebook, it is large enough. Some competitors have smaller screens.
Fits well in my computer case for travel, suction cup mounts to the windshield of my car, rental cars, and it stuck well to the windshield of the 4107 - from New Hampshire to New Brunswick, then to Dallas. All maps are internal (and I also bought a better protective carrying case). It will do the voice navigation, has points of interest, etc. The downside of this type of unit is keeping the roads and points of interest current - but frankly, I don't care if the POI data becomes somewhat out of date, and my need to find new streets in new suburbs is unlikely.
Bottom line - I don't think you can go wrong with any that I've used - multiple Delorme packages, one hand-held Magellan, two Magellan Roadmates over the years. Great safety device, don't have to squint through the windshield trying to find road signs - just listen to the GPS, with a 2 mile and a .5 mile warning of turns - advance notice of "keep left, keep right," etc. I even used it to give me advance notice of road turns while driving through upstate New York in a near white-out. Not a remote control, however - still have to pay attention and read signs. It did try to steer me to a wrong exit crossing the Hudson, just above NYC last year - signs were right, GPS programming was wrong.
Good luck, and have fun with its capabilities.
Arthur Gaudet Carrollton, TX
Quote from: bobofthenorth on October 31, 2006, 06:15:12 AM
There are literally 1000s of farm implements in North America running on WAAS with sub-meter accuracy.
I'd sure like to see one that does sub-meter accuracy strictly off WAAS.
All of the one's I've seen claiming that kind of accuracy require a portable or fixed ground station or some other transmitting station.
Quote from: gumpy on October 31, 2006, 02:14:30 PM
I'd sure like to see one that does sub-meter accuracy strictly off WAAS.
All of the one's I've seen claiming that kind of accuracy require a portable or fixed ground station or some other transmitting station.
Read it and weep:
http://www.trimble.com/aggps332.shtml
Or better still come up here for a day and drive the one that is sitting in my yard right now.
While ya'll are working out the accuracy of a WAAS system, answer me one more tech question....this is related to the GPS laptop. Will a laptop with a 802.11b air card connect in a wi-fi net? If not, what does? I'm using an 802.11b aircard in my WLAN at home. Wondered if it was compatible in "hot spots"?
I know that it won't connect via Verizon or such. Waiting for the wireless phone broadband to come down in price...a little. Just don't use it enough to merit $60 bucks a month. When Verizon's broadband quality is as good as RoadRunner, I'll dump RR and go wireless. It ain't quite there.
I occasionally park in campgrounds that advertise "Wi Fi" networks.. just wondering if I could connect? Won't even ask how...yet.
I'm not computer literate...too old to learn much more. :)
Thanks for all the good info regarding the DeLorme system. Be playing with that this weekend.
Best, JR
Yep, read it.
It has nothing to do with positional accuracy. As the website states, the WAAS (or SBAS augmentation as they refer to it) is based on relative position and is only good over a 15 minute time period. It states a +/- 3 ft repeatability on a year to year (hour to hour) basis. That's not accuracy. That's relativity. Most modernl receivers will perform with similar results given a clear sky, which presumably most farmland offers.
The rest of their system uses DGPS based on beacon and subscription services. You might get similar accuracy (to WAAS) with beacon, but again, it's not repeatable and is basically relative on a short term basis. The subscription services are basically the same as the beacons. The omnistar system is not going to offer much more then beacon systems. RTK offers the best performance of all. It uses a second receiver as a ground station in conjunction with the base stations, and also uses the L2 frequency.
You cannot get that kind of accuracy from WAAS on a repeatable basis, or over extended periods. You can get it for short periods, but when the satellites change, so does the accuracy.
Still, there's some impressive computations going on in those sytems to be able to maintain that kind of driving accuracy even if for a short period.
No weeping here. I know a little more about GPS then the casual user. ;)
Craig - in the post I responded to, you stated:
"WAAS cannot provide that kind of precision. It can bring the accuracy down to about 3-7 meters."
Now you say 3 feet.
All I know is there are 1000s of pieces of farm equipment happily travelling up and down the field using WAAS and they aren't overlapping by 3 feet. Trimble's site which I already referenced says 7" for pass to pass accuracy. I'd say that is pretty close to what users are experiencing at 15 MPH on 1/2 mile fields. That's around 5 minutes between complete passes. At slower speeds it's probably closer to 1 foot accuracy between passes. Either way it's sub-meter accuracy from the user's perspective. And yes, they won't get back to the same a-b line a day later but they won't be out by 7 meters either.
This technology still amazes me. When I was a kid we would have said it was impossible. Now I have a customer with a Cat Challenger who gets out of the tractor, leaves it to drive unattended and runs out to the outside of a 60' drill to watch his overlap which he claims is under 4" with a satellite correction. Leaving aside the questionable wisdom of his actions, that is pretty amazing. Most human operators would be delighted if they could drive that rig to under a 1 foot overlap using conventional mechanical drill markers.
Quote from: bobofthenorth on October 31, 2006, 06:29:09 PM
Craig - in the post I responded to, you stated:
"WAAS cannot provide that kind of precision. It can bring the accuracy down to about 3-7 meters."
Now you say 3 feet.
Yeah, that 3 ft thing was from their website.
I don't doubt they are getting that accuracy on a yearly basis, but to get within 1 foot pass to pass is pretty interesting.
And by the way, you did say "pass to pass" on your initial post. I should not have contradicted you, because that is possible with WAAS, as long as you don't care about positional accuracy or repeatability. In my line of work, that's kind of critical. In farming, it's more about the short term accuracy. Interesting how one system can be used to both applications with great results.
Its an amazing feat of technology. You folks truly are the greatest nation on the face of the earth - ever. To put that system in the air and then just let every schmuck in the world derive the benefit of it is mind boggling in its generosity.
I have watched the precision thing evolve for agriculture and never bought into the hype - in fact I was downright skeptical. When people first started talking about GPS we were going to apply prescription fertilizer to sub samples of fields and that was going to revolutionize farming and yields and lower costs at the same time. For the most part that was pure bunk. What it has done is revolutionize guidance. Particularly for seeding equipment. In dryland farming we routinely use seeding equipment wider than 50' - some of the prairie mfrs are building 80' equipment now. Mechanical markers for that width of equipment are incredibly complex and expensive. We bought a GPS marker for one of our custom app trucks last spring for $2000. Now I'll grant you it wouldn't be adequate for seeding but its getting close. But at $2000 its less total capital cost than we used to spend in a season for marker soap.
JR,
Yes 102b is Wifi you can use at hot spots like starbucks and hotels and campgrounds. Some are included or free, some need a password and charge you.