BCM Community

Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: paulrobie on April 01, 2012, 09:12:15 AM

Title: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: paulrobie on April 01, 2012, 09:12:15 AM
This is for rdbishop here at the rally: he installed a new Air throttle on his 68 8v92 and it is not operating properly, not holding pressure.... Can anybody offer some help?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: luvrbus on April 01, 2012, 09:19:43 AM
Diaphragm is probably bad I only bought one from the E place it was a good lesson for me lol  but he need to check the travel if it extends to far it will not hold the pod has 2 rings on the shaft it cannot extend farther than the second ring ,this may be worthless info not knowing what cylinder Richard has or bought the pedal and the pod need to match 

Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: paulrobie on April 01, 2012, 09:26:10 AM
Quote from: luvrbus on April 01, 2012, 09:19:43 AM
Diaphragm is probably bad I only bought one from the E place it was a good lesson for me lol  but he need to check the travel if it extends to far it will not hold the pod has 2 rings on the shaft it cannot extend farther than the second ring ,this may be worthless info not knowing what cylinder Richard has or bought the pedal and the pod need to match 


Luvrbus, can you call 830 481 3657 cell phone
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: buswarrior on April 01, 2012, 09:26:34 AM
Other than wondering about a '68 8V92, I have nothing further to offer in troubleshooting.

Did this get changed at the rally? Are the old parts available to re-rig to get him home?

happy coaching!
buswarrior
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: paulrobie on April 01, 2012, 09:29:23 AM
Quote from: buswarrior on April 01, 2012, 09:26:34 AM
Other than wondering about a '68 8V92, I have nothing further to offer in troubleshooting.

Did this get changed at the rally? Are the old parts available to re-rig to get him home?

happy coaching!
buswarrior
No on returning to original as was changed at rally due to failure.
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: buswarrior on April 01, 2012, 09:35:18 AM
Is the problem up the front at the pedal?

happy coaching!
buswarrior
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: paulrobie on April 01, 2012, 09:36:59 AM
Quote from: buswarrior on April 01, 2012, 09:35:18 AM
Is the problem up the front at the pedal?

happy coaching!
buswarrior
Not sure... The system is either full open or full closed
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: buswarrior on April 01, 2012, 09:38:59 AM
Yup, I'd be blaming the foot pedal if it won't modulate.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: Cary and Don on April 01, 2012, 09:48:18 AM
We had this problem on one.  It turned out that the spring in the rear didn't match the front valve.  It was all or nothing.  We ordered the right spring from Williams to match and it worked great. 

Don and Cary
1973 05 Eagle
GM 4107
Neoplan AN340
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: paulrobie on April 01, 2012, 10:07:22 AM
Thank you for the input, Richard believes he can get it home.
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: Busted Knuckle on April 01, 2012, 12:52:10 PM
Quote from: paulrobie on April 01, 2012, 10:07:22 AM
Thank you for the input, Richard believes he can get it home.

Wow that could be an interesting ride wide opened or all closed all the way home! LOL!
By the way what rally?
;D  BK  ;D
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: opus on April 01, 2012, 01:29:10 PM
Sounds like a spring on the engine end broke.
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: txjeff on April 01, 2012, 02:36:39 PM
BK
Thats the way Richards wife described the trip to the rally....intresting  ;D

Thanks to Don & Cary we added some tension to the spring (bungee cord) and it seemed to help slow the response down. Im sure Richard will respond with detail of the return trip.

jeff
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: rdbishop on April 01, 2012, 05:16:31 PM
Thanks Guys, Made it home with the bungee cord working farely well, 65 top end and no power uphill, but we made it. I'll order a spring for the rear tomorrow and see how that does. Thanks to All and especially the guys at the rally persisting to get me home smoothly. Will update when we get the part and installed.

Richard
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: Cary and Don on April 01, 2012, 07:11:42 PM
You need to make sure you have the number on the throttle valve.  Then they can make sure they give you the matching air pressure spring.  They might try to sell you the whole part for the rear,  but the spring is really easy to change and I think it was like $20 with shipping.

Don and Cary
1973 05 Eagle
GM 4107
Neoplan AN340
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: rdbishop on April 02, 2012, 09:23:34 AM
Don and Cary,
I talked to the tech support guy at williams controls and he gave me a part # 117886 and said to get it from a distributor.Do you remember who and where you got yours and is the part # right? Dreamscape is doing the same thing to his bus and is going to need the same thing. Did you have to use a pressure reg on yours?                                                                                                               Richard
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: luvrbus on April 02, 2012, 10:30:35 AM
Richard most equipment yards that have the all terrain cranes will have the springs if you don't find one I'll be Houston Tue and can pick you up a spring and regulator up at Coles place you need a regulator those things are almost like air wipers without one
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: rdbishop on April 02, 2012, 10:44:18 AM
Thanks clifford, If you can get 2. Paul Lawry is doing the same thing and I'll send him one. Now all we need is how to get them. How long are you going to be in Houston and what direction do you go from there?

Richard
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: luvrbus on April 02, 2012, 11:26:30 AM
I'll be East at Anahauc right now we are not far from you at Killleen I found Andy's parts from a boat yard in Anahauc I have some of the hand throttles those are neat I been doing some experimenting with those we installed one on a MCI 5 and the guys loves his hand throttle lever

good luck
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: paulrobie on April 02, 2012, 01:47:39 PM
if you like, so no-one has to go too far out of the way we can meet in Houston luvrbus and then Richard and I can maybe meet in the middle for the part swap. Unless your going that way anyway.. I can even meet up with you somewhere closer to Baytown if need be, just let me know.
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: rdbishop on April 02, 2012, 03:02:38 PM
Thanks Paul,

Cliff, my # is 830-six 2 5-0ne six nine 6 and you get my Email most evenings.

Richard
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: Dreamscape on April 02, 2012, 04:21:35 PM
The part number he gave you is this. Something is not correct.

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi363.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo78%2FDreamscape_Eagle%2FEngine%2520Tranny%2520Swap%2FWilliamsThrottleCylinder.jpg&hash=1251676a6e950364620ba18e95b956cd133c3427)

This is how I set mine up. Is the spring you are talking about the external one like I have pictured?

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi363.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo78%2FDreamscape_Eagle%2FEngine%2520Tranny%2520Swap%2F2012-03-20_10-58-50_109.jpg&hash=0e9299592e20c4decb612fa5a10e97bef3459d8f)

According to what I've read. At idle the spring load should be 10# then at full throttle 75#.

Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: rdbishop on April 02, 2012, 04:50:22 PM
Paul, I was looking for the internal spring. I should have figured he had no idea what I was talking about. I'm thinking I may be able to add some washers to the spring to get what I'm looking for But I would like to have what Cliff was talking about. Mine worked good till I tried it with the motor running. Hope yours works. If mine don't I'm going back to cable.

Richard
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: luvrbus on April 02, 2012, 05:15:32 PM
You don't see on the buses much because most have been installed using fab work buy owners they are really supposed to have a split lever to go over the rod on the governors and use bell cranks.

Pauls make work good for him but he has a lot of linkage and brackets on his setup.

It is not a science Richard the parts just need to  be right to match the pedal with control cylinder set the regulator at 65 lbs and work from there they will vary with different air pressure when driving without a regulator and the compressor kicking in and out gets to be annoying to me

good luck
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: rdbishop on April 02, 2012, 06:22:04 PM
Cliff, are you still going to pick up the spring and regulator for me? PM me and let me know.
Richard
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: Cary and Don on April 02, 2012, 06:41:47 PM
I will have to look it up.  Seems like the name was Brake services in Oregon.  As soon as I find the receipt I'll let you know.

Don and Cary
1973 05 Eagle
Gm 4107
Neoplan An 340
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: luvrbus on April 02, 2012, 06:51:56 PM
It is Brake Services Don

good luck
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: Cary and Don on April 02, 2012, 06:54:08 PM
Well that was easy.  Brake systems Inc.  Portland, OR  Phone number is 503 236-2116.  I also had a number wrote down for Williams tech support 503 684-8624.  It seems when I called Brake systems I asked for someone familiar with the Williams air throttles.  They know what they are talking about.

Don and Cary
1973 05 Eagle
GM 4107
Neoplan AN340
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: Dreamscape on April 02, 2012, 07:39:48 PM
Here is how mine was originally setup. I had to change it due to the height restriction clearance that I have on our 01 Eagle. Just talked with Richard and he does not have the split lever or the bracket. Just wanted to post this short video for the archives. (just click on the photo)

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi363.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo78%2FDreamscape_Eagle%2FEngine%2520Tranny%2520Swap%2Fth_2012-03-17_10-58-16_903.jpg&hash=eafb189e3df77d32abe48bb5d6d00361c9b87601) (http://s363.photobucket.com/albums/oo78/Dreamscape_Eagle/Engine%20Tranny%20Swap/?action=view&current=2012-03-17_10-58-16_903.mp4)
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: oldmansax on April 03, 2012, 04:47:11 AM
Quote from: Busted Knuckle on April 01, 2012, 12:52:10 PM
Quote from: paulrobie on April 01, 2012, 10:07:22 AM
Thank you for the input, Richard believes he can get it home.

Wow that could be an interesting ride wide opened or all closed all the way home! LOL!
By the way what rally?
;D  BK  ;D

What do you mean, "interesting"? That's the way I ALWAYS drive!!   ;D ;D

TOM
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: rdbishop on April 03, 2012, 06:30:46 AM
Cary and Don,

Was the spring you replaced on the inside of the throttle control? I'm going to call about the part soon as Oregon wakes up.

Richard
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: luvrbus on April 03, 2012, 08:13:33 AM
FWIW some of the control cylinders are idle and open no in between no matter what you do only takes 5 lbs to open and close,Paul's photo is the right setup for a DD but other setups will work
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: Cary and Don on April 03, 2012, 08:56:43 AM
The spring goes in the control that sits on the governor.  Unless you can get the numbers off the throttle pedal you will have to assume they have that right. 

Don and Cary
1973 05 Eagle
GM 4107
Neoplan AN340
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: rdbishop on April 03, 2012, 09:00:56 AM
Cary and Don,  Are you using a regulator?
Richard
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: rdbishop on April 03, 2012, 09:18:43 AM
Clifford,
 
Rear at motor-stamped on valve                    At front pedal

    WM 388                                                      WM-453-m 101
                                                                       119273 L-3082

inv. #Williams WM388U1A1A                          inv. #New Williams Treadle Pedal       
        Throttle Control Valve                             Foot Control Valve Assembly
                                                                        119273 WM453-M-101

That's all the #'s there are.

Richard
                                                     
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: Cary and Don on April 03, 2012, 06:22:55 PM
We used a regulator to lower the air pressure.  There had been a lot of talk here about 120lbs of air pressure being hard on the air throttles.  It seems we set it a 65 or 75 lbs. 

Don and Cary
1973 05 Eagle
GM 4107
Neoplan AN340
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: paulrobie on April 04, 2012, 03:19:27 PM
Hey Richard, what's the status on this? Offer still stands to be the middleman for parts if needed but..... ????
Title: Re: Air throttle help needed ASAP
Post by: rdbishop on April 04, 2012, 04:39:05 PM
OK Paul, I'm waiting for clifford to let me know where to pick up the parts from him. He's going back to Killeen after Houston...About 100 miles from me so I can pick them up there. The waiting kills me........
Richard