I went for a visit to a local custom RV shop today(Cape Fear Custom RV) Dennis (the owner) spent about 30 -45 minutes walking through the bus and with me and looking at all the options and things I should consider with this conversion. Awesome resource and straight up guy. He was very encouraging, shared alot of the tricks of the trade and wasn't expecting me to get an ounce of work done at his shop.
One of the things he turned me on to was called Tiger Ply Lite - the 18mm (3/4) plywood is 9 layers and weighs about 46lbs a sheet. It was unbelievably light for 3/4 plywood. I am going to use this to build out my bays and save some weight and may even pull up what is existing in flooring and go back and put some of this in. I can get it locally at Meyers for 36/sheet.
Just wondering if anyone else has used it and what your experience is with it.
Webpage for TigerPly - http://www.tigerply.com/coremenu.html (http://www.tigerply.com/coremenu.html)
-Sean
I was intrigued so I spent a little time looking around. Tigerply appears to be a Chinese product designed to enter the market for Baltic Birch and hardwood type plywood at a lower price point. The light stuff probably is made using poplar cores. I found some warnings to use breathing protection when cutting, apparently it has some strong fungicides. People also said it was of lower quality than Baltic Birch typically is, but they were using it for furniture, not buses.
No idea what all this means, but I will now take more interest in looking at place of origin on wood products. I shouldn't be surprised but I kind of didn't realize that basic wood products were being imported from China.
Brian
Be aware that 'Tiger' and 'Tiger Stripe' is a term that's also used to describe certain styles of veneer (usually Sapele I think) applied to any sort of plywood.
I don't have any hang-ups about Chinese-sourced timber and I'd certainly look at this Tiger Ply product if one of my local suppliers stocked it - one does wonder though what effect the light-weight, low-density filler plies have on the overall strength and screw-holding abilities etc.
Jeremy
Brian, the Chinese have had off shore saw mills in the Pacific for years they buy timber here take it out into the ocean make the product with no regulations ship it back to us and like sheep we follow the leaders like HD and others and buy the crap that product has probably never been to China lol
Usually lighter weight means less dense wood used to make the sheets, or center plys have a lot of voids. 9 plys would be stronger than 5 or seven ply. I would buy only 1 sheet to start with. As you make your cuts, look at the cut edges and see if you see many voids in the center layers. Jack
I used Chinese plywood and when cutting the glue smelled pretty bad and quickly gummed up the blade. Of course Chinese drywall has always been known as a trouble free product ::)
http://lumberjocks.com/naperville/blog/4093 (http://lumberjocks.com/naperville/blog/4093)
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Problems_with_Chinese_Plywood.html (http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Problems_with_Chinese_Plywood.html)
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/14744 (http://lumberjocks.com/topics/14744)
Baltic Birch plywood has always been an imported product, but it traditionally isn't made in China. I use Baltic Birch any time I need to make something that looks needs a smooth finish. I also use it to make parts for rockets since it is strong and has no voids. There is a lumber yard locally that often has Baltic Birch they got cheap as distressed inventory. It may have some dings on the edges.
Chinese plywood should never be sold as 'Baltic' because China is thousands of miles away from Russia or Finland. One good thing the European Community has done is to bring in rules preventing stuff being sold using a name which implies it was made elsewhere (Champagne is an example everyone knows, but there are thousands of others). I've no idea if there are similar rules governing how things sold in the USA are described.
Jeremy
Edit: I meant the Baltic coast of Russia or course - the other side is very close to China!
I have heard the stuff called Russian Birch and the Red Birch called Chinese Birch both are grown here also lot of it Ca and the northwest
Quote from: Jeremy on March 15, 2012, 07:53:55 AM
Chinese plywood should never be sold as 'Baltic' because China is thousands of miles away from Russia or Finland. One good thing the European Community has done is to bring in rules preventing stuff being sold using a name which implies it was made elsewhere (Champagne is an example everyone knows, but there are thousands of others). I've no ides if there are similar rules governing how things sold in the USA are described.
The USA tends to be fairly lax on advertising rules although we do have laws against false advertising. It would very unlikely to see someone prosecuted for selling Chinese plywood as Baltic birch. Some states do have stricter state rules for advertising and consumer protection.
If someone was taken to court for selling Chinese plywood as Baltic birch they would probably argue that Baltic Birch describes how the plywood is made rather than identifying the region or country it originated from. Personally, I don't care what country made my Baltic birch plywood as long as it was the same type and quality of product as what everyone thinks Baltic birch is. Well, I might not buy it if was made in China based on what I have read about Chinese plywood.
Well, I was prompted to go and look at the plywood I made my cabinets from. Birch veneer both sides, 7 ply including the veneer, 19mm, very few voids but not no voids, made in Canada by Columbia. I bought it at Home Depot. Now I am going to check every time I buy the stuff...
Brian
Quote from: belfert on March 15, 2012, 08:06:18 AM
If someone was taken to court for selling Chinese plywood as Baltic birch they would probably argue that Baltic Birch describes how the plywood is made rather than identifying the region or country it originated from.
Yes, that's the usual defense; I believe the EU considers each product on a case-by-case basis, and the 'real' manufacturers have to put forward their arguement as to why their product name should be protected. I do know that the EU rules have been a great help to lots of small producers of specialty products who were previously being subsumed by the global giants.
Jeremy
The alarm bells are ringing when "breathing protection" gets mentioned.
I think good quality breathing protection should become just as routine as eye protection when sawing wood products.
This isn't about manliness, it's about learning from the misadventure of others.
We have no idea what chemicals might be in the wood, what harm may come to us by breathing them in.
We all have heard the stories about guys sawing up a bunch of pressure treated inside the garage and having strange health problems immediately after.
Off shore sourced plywood? Never mind whatever "advances" have been made in the home market processes that have so far eluded regulation.
And, on the mechanical side of our lungs, we also know how too many our woodshop teachers and those in the industry died: emphysema.
Go buy a good mask with the cartridges, get it properly adjusted, and proudly wear it, same as your safety glasses.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
I have friends who don't wear any safety equipment unless required to at work. My friends sometimes make fun of me for wearing safety equipment so often, but it has saved me a few times. Some of them also don't use gloves or a respirator with epoxy, but you can develop some bad allergies if you get epoxy exposure too often.
I always wear safety glasses when working on the bus. You never know then something might happen. I will add hearing protection and respirator as necessary. I admit I don't wear hearing protection when mowing the lawn, but I probably should. I also don't use breathing protection when cutting wood unless I am cutting a lot of it.
Your lungs will suffer from many years of inhaling sawdust no matter where it comes from.
Any kind of dust inhaled over many years is bad news. Who knew?
Brian-- My friend, Patch Eye, also ridicules using safety equipment.
Sean,
You need to make a road trip to Beaufort, NC and visit the factory store for Atlantic Veneer. They manufacture hi class veneer plywood and they also make bendable plywood. You can get seconds and blemished.
While here your wife can visit the gift shops on the Beaufort waterfront. They are open on Saturdays, but I don't recall the hours. You may want to call before you come to check. Then call me and I'll share a Pepsi with you.
Art
I am a cabinetmaker in California. I refuse to use all Chinese products. The plys delaminate under less stressfull conditions than the U.S. plywoods. The veneer quality is not as good as ours. I can not gurantee a high end cabinet build if I don't trust the product. The smell is also an issue. I have sampled some products in the past, at the request of my supplier, without much success. If you are going to use it in your bays be careful, because if it gets wet, it comes apart easily. Just my two cents. I am sure that someone out there has had great success with it, but for me their products are a no no. The cost of U.S. goods can be much more money. However, what is the cost of tearing out a completed conversion.
Good Luck,
Mike
Mike,
Thanks for the information - my main attraction to the Tiger Ply was the lite version that weighed less.
Do you know of any American Made plys that are made with lighter woods/veneers that will hold up?
The Tiger Ply lite is ~46lbs for an 18mm 4x8 sheet.
Thanks.
-Sean
Call the Atlantic Veneer Mill Outlet and ask. 252-728-7620.
Art
Art,
Thanks for the info. I will call. I'd love to come up there for a visit. Busy with work until at least May though. Its on my list though :)
-Sean
Sean,
Art gave you the reply that I would have. The difference is that he knew who to contact. I don't know what is available in your area. Remember, we have different species and products out here on the West Coast than you do. If you stick with a hardwood or plywood supplier you will get better answers. Lumber yards and big box stores don't always know anything about the actual products they are selling.
Good Luck,
Mike