We are a traveling family ministry team broke down here in Sebring, FL with our 1982 partially converted Prevost LeMirage bus.
The bus started overheating 220-230 degrees and we pulled off put water in and let engine cool down.
It still continued overheating as we repeated the above for the next 20 miles where we could park and plug in at an RV park.
The next day we discovered coolant in oil pan and on dip stick. When I filled the radiator with water it appeared to be almost empty taking about 10 minutes of steady flow to fill.
We then drained the oil pan getting about 15 gallons of coolant before seeing any oil.
We dropped the oil pan to see inside the bottom of the engine. A car mechanic brought over a pump so we could pressurize the cooling system and see where it might be leaking from under the engine. There is a steady flow of coolant/water seemingly on the right side of the engine coming from the front and back cylinders.
We then removed the head cover over the injectors/head and found coolant on the injectors.
We did turn engine over to see if any fluid pushed out on top of the injector area and found none.
A diesel mechanic in Massachusetts has been walking us through these procedures over the phone.
If anyone knows of a 2 stroke mechanic near us, please pass this info along.
Also if anyone has any suggestions, we're all ears! <grin>
Ken from this board saw our post on another board and suggested we post here.
Thanks so in advance!
Kerry
There's another thread running here right now about a MC7 with an 8-71 in Florida. You might want to read that thread and see if there's some opportunities there because it sounds to me like you are about to spend a lot of money. There's a good bus garage in Lakeland but I can't remember the name of the place - no doubt somebody else will chime in with the name pretty soon.
(edit)
John Silver
Central Florida Bus Repair
102 Burbank Avenue
Lakeland, FL 33801,
(863) 665-8155
Its been bugging me all morning and it finally came to me.
Bob is right. An engine swap for a good 8V71 is probably going to be way cheaper than fixing yours. Not sure about what needs to be changed from MCI to Prevost.
Clifford will probably chime in here. Do whatever he says. He's the best.
TOM
I would pressurize the cooling system while observing the area around the injectors. If the coolant is coming from this area you have an injector tube failure which means the head has to come off. There is a tool that re swedges the top of the tube if it is coming from that area but it works only sometimes.
If the coolant is not coming from around the injectors it generally means the head has to come off to check for cracks or bad coolant o rings around the water jacket holes. There will be a dark area around the white o rings if this is where the coolant is coming from. Good luck Gerry
My heart goes out to you, I hope you get this resolved economically.
One thing I noted, and im not sure this is what actually occurred or that its even the case, but you said you put water in and THEN let it cool. If you poured cold water into an overheated engine, it is quite possible to crack the block, head, or a liner.
On a bright note, you seem to be in an area where your able to work on it and have some good mechanical help available. If there is any hope or interest in saving that engine you have to at least pull the head on the side you see leakage from below. It has to come off to fix any leak regardless. And whether the engine is junk or not, pulling the head wont hurt anything at this point.
John Silver's shop in Lakeland is FL Bus Repair or FL Bus Sales & Repair. (I don't recall what it is now) It used to just be Central FL Bus when they ran charter buses I believe.
Anyway his shop is probably THE BEST independent shop in central FL if not ALL of FL!
;D BK ;D
It appears that the source of the coolant by-pass has been identified.
A car mechanic brought over a pump so we could pressurize the cooling system and see where it might be leaking from under the engine. There is a steady flow of coolant/water seemingly on the right side of the engine coming from the front and back cylinders.
Had that happen to me a few years ago on an 8V71 I had .
Turned out to be O rings at top of cylinder. Hope yours is that easy.
regardless of where the coolant is coming from you were into main bearings, cam bearings and rod bearings the moment you noticed coolant in the oil pan. You have to pull at least one head so you're in your wallet deep already.sorry for your troubles. did you specify in your post what motor you currently have?
Central FL Bus is the right place to go. But its 100 miles north of you. In Seabring Big John is the man. His shop is on 27 north accross from Highlands Regional Hospital. I have a hunch you are very close to him. I don't know if you have towing ins but if your in Sebring you can't be more than 10 miles away.
I have used Big John and have had only good experiences. Email me and I can pick you up and take you over to see him.
Alan Baker
84 Eagle 10
Sebring, FL
baker4106@aol.com
seven 5 seven 2 one 8 five 4 7 0h
Hold on.
Until someone opens up that engine, it may only need some gaskets/seals.
You don't need all those bearings unless they've been damaged.
I think they are under enough stress now without all of us piling on with more untimely doom and gloom.
Ask around the transit garage, fix the leak, short change the oil, live long and prosper.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
RE: water damage to bearings... There is a story about a car that won the Indianapolis 500, (or at the least raced in it, but won is a better story) that had an oil leak and was running out of oil. When pressure started to drop, the driver brought it in to the pits... The rules didn't allow oil to be added, but they were allowed to add water - so they kept topping it up with water, and at the end it was running a bit of oil and a lot of water! The little teardrop shaped tank on the sides of the old roadsters was the dry sump tank!
I agree with BW - find the problem then worry about fixing what is broken. The pan is already off, inspecting things is easy, replace what is needed. 99% of what can cause this is related to the head, so taking that off and having a look is the obvious first step. If something in the block of an 8V71 (dry liner, remember) is causing such a water leak, the fix is usually a different engine.
Brian
Yeah the idea antifreeze instantly destroys bearings is greatly exaggerated. Not a bad idea to check them for wear, but if they look alright a few oil changes will clear out the gunk. If its leaking at opposing ends of the engine its most certainly seals. Could be a cracked head but that would generally be more localized.
If you get the head off and find blown liner seals, I would argue to do the other side as well. If you blew two on one side they are all probably the same age?? And that you ran the temp that high they will be the next weak link in the chain.
Paul, the 8V71 is dry liner. Kerry, just pull the head, therein you will find the problem.
Water damage to bearings is common with aftermarket bearings for a Detroit
It goes back to you get what you pay for genuine DD bearings have more silver in the shells than the aftermarket bearings water and antifreeze will spin a aftermarket bearing in a blink of the eye in a 8v71 or a 8v92,that much water he will need to tear down to the bare block they will never be able to flush the galleys clean.
With the leaks on each end somebody probably left the block to head shims out and the head broke just guessing
Quote from: luvrbus on March 08, 2012, 08:25:47 AM(snip)
Clifford, please check your "My Messages" inbox. Thx, BH
Update...
I first want to thank you all for the thoughts! Wow, what a great board!!! I wished I had found you 10 years ago! This is our third bus conversion (GMC, Prevost H5-60, LeMirage)
OK, we pulled the pan. I'm cleaning up the inside so when the car mechanic gets here his friend a diesel mechanic in Massachusetts told us to check the following:
Main Bearing and Main rod. Depending on what we find then we proceed to pull head or not.
I'll update tonight hopefully with great news!
THanks again! I appreciate all the input.
SO am I correct that the DD 8V71n has no liners in the cylinders like the 8V92? Is that what you mean by dry liner?
So am I correct that the point of failure could be 0-rings on top of the cylinder and/or cracked head?
If we decided to pull head and proceed to repair.... should I be looking for the cause of overheating like radiator partially plugged, etc? This way we avoid future issues?
Thanks in Advance!
OK Here goes.
1) the 8V71 does have liners. But they are what is called "dry" liners because they don't have "water jackets" surrounding them to cool them.
2) yes it COULD be as simple as O-rings and/or a cracked head.
3) YES MOST DEFINITELY! You need to find & fix the cause. (if it was caused by something else) It could have just been failure do to age.
;D BK ;D
The 71 has liners difference is they do not have water on the top 2 inches like a 92 series they are removed the same way no 0-rings in the block like a 92 series
good luck
Also please note you've had an offer from a local busnut who is familiar with a known local bus mechanic.
I know nothing about "Big John" but I have heard of a mechanic in Sebring who do work on buses and my guess it is him.
I would highly recommend you take Alan up on his offer. It never hurts to have a 2nd or 3rd opinion and especially one who knows 2 Stroke Detroits!
Give Mr. Baker a call and let him introduce you to "Big John" and maybe even ask Big John to make a service call on his way home and have a look. (of course you might have to offer to pay for an hr of his time, or to serve him supper)
Remember lost of us busnuts are here to help, and most times the only thing we ask in return is that you pay it forward to the next person you find in need of help. (that's just how we work)
;D BK ;D
Quote from: Alan Baker
Central FL Bus is the right place to go. But its 100 miles north of you. In Seabring Big John is the man. His shop is on 27 north accross from Highlands Regional Hospital. I have a hunch you are very close to him. I don't know if you have towing ins but if your in Sebring you can't be more than 10 miles away.
I have used Big John and have had only good experiences. Email me and I can pick you up and take you over to see him.
Alan Baker
84 Eagle 10
Sebring, FL
baker4106@aol.com
seven 5 seven 2 one 8 five 4 7 0h
Opps I see Clifford answered while I was typing my long winded response! & as ALWAYS he did more so in a correct description than I !
Update #2,
Hey all,
We dropped a main bearing and a rod cap to examine their condition.
I've posted pictures.
They look great according to the car mechanic.
So today, I'm moving air intake, manifold, etc. off so Monday, we can pull the head with a 'cherry picker'
I hope to talk with "Big John" a highly recommended mechanic about 1/2 mile from us and get his input.
Thanks again for all the input!
The bearings look okay, but you should plastigage them for clearance. I would also check more than just one and also check the thrust bearing.
I have read of antifreeze attacking bearings for many years. I dont have all the answers on it, but I have personally never seen it. There shouldn't be anything in any antifreeze/coolant that is corrosive to any metal. As most of the metals in the bearing shells are also in many other parts inside an engine and exposed to coolant, anything that would instantly attack the bearing shell would do likewise to anything else. In fact I would think aluminum would be the most effected by anything corrosive.
What I have read about is many GM vehicles used the red long life GM antifreeze, and that if it mixed with oil it supposedly turns into some kind of slop or paste mixture the oil pump simply can not pump. Other than Buses I have completely avoided owning or working on GM products which is possibly why I have never seen the problem first hand, though there is plenty to read about it online. Certainly oil starvation would do rapid, or almost instant damage to a bearing. But I have never seen that happen with ethylene glycol based (green) coolant. In fact I have a friend who is addicted to mini Mopars with the Turbo 2.2/2.5 motors. He is blowing head gaskets all the time and always milking up his oil, and has never spun a bearing.
You are looking at the wrong side of the main bearings you can't tell much without doing all the caps and bearing it is the DD way doesn't sound like he ran the engine long but he has a plate full the water is in cooler, oil galley,air compressor,blower it's everywhere wish him luck but no way would I put it back together without changing 150 dollars of bearing JMO
Clifford did you mean you are Looking at the correct side of the main bearings, but the wrong side of the rod bearings.
Didn't come out the way I was typing lol but he can't tell much with just 2 bearings you and I both know that 230 degree most of the time does one in
So Clifford, your saying the coolant is attacking the back of the shell? If that is truly the case then its also behind all the cam bearings and the engine is as good as junk?
Does anyone have more knowledge of this issue?
The only possible reference I have is a Ferrari 308 engine. When I tore it down every rod bearing shell was "loose", and would simply fall out of the rod or cap. I didnt notice any corrosion but have always wondered what made them "undersized". They were factory bearings, the part numbers were correct, and the rods miced out to spec. The bearings O.D. had somehow "shrunk".
I'm not so proud to say I havnt seen it all, but if this is true there really isnt any sense letting this man throw more money away.
Alan, you need to remove the shells and look at the back side. If Clifford is right you have a much bigger problem.
Paul, I think what Clifford was saying is that he needs to look at the other half of the bearing, not just the half that is in the cap. I'm with Clifford on this one, it only makes sense if your this far into it that you replace all the bearings for extra insurance. The worst you can do is give yourself a little extra peace of mind, and at best maybe get a little more oil pressure with the new bearings.
Quote from: thomasinnv on March 09, 2012, 08:58:16 AM
Paul, I think what Clifford was saying is that he needs to look at the other half of the bearing, not just the half that is in the cap.
Yeah I read all of that. But Clifford also said the engine needs to be stripped completely bare and ALL bearings replaced. That aint goin to happen without removing the whole engine. Also potentially makes an on the road gasket failure a full blown engine failure, or may as well.
I was just reading an interesting article on the issue. Apparently some of the chemicals in antifreeze, coupled with chemicals found in used diesel motor oil have been found to form strong acids. I have not read if its something that happens long term or short term, but interesting none the less.
The point is not whether Clifford is right or not, but to keep this guy from wasting time and money. If Clifford is right (and I'm thinking he may very well be) the guy is going to need a lot more help.
Before I went any further I would drop the rear main and look at the block, I bet it is broken. ( not uncommon on an over heat of the magnitude). It will brake through the bolt hole and the thrust area. If that is the case pull the engine and change it out to a turbo engine and fix the cooling system.
Don
Don, massive overheat or cracked block aside, what are your feelings on the antifreeze/oil contamination issue?
What Clifford and I both mean is the engine thrust load is on the bottom main shell and the upper rod shell. I agree with him, all the bearings should be changed and while doing so, do as Don suggested, check the webs. 230 is quite hot. Bearings are cheap. After all the work is done change the oil a couple of times, and again after 500 miles. Should be good to go after that.
Gerry
Paul,
Antifreeze has never been good on any engine bearings. If the block is not cracked I would fix the engine then run it at around 1000 rpm for 5-10 Min's then change the oil again. I would then run it for about 500- 1000 miles and change it again. Might be a little over kill but you would clean out the oil system. Clifford is correct the oil cooler is going to be full of antifreeze and muck.
You check the bearings by looking at the bottom main bearing and the top of the rod bearings. you are looking at the part of the bearing that takes the load.
hope this helps
Don
Antifreeze is a poor lubricant in a high stress location like the rod/main bearings.
Allows unprotected metal to metal contact.
Once it gets in the sump, it is favoured by the oil pick up as it heads for the bottom all the time, the oil floating on top of it.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: Don Fairchild on March 09, 2012, 11:19:34 AM
Paul,
Antifreeze has never been good on any engine bearings. If the block is not cracked I would fix the engine then run it at around 1000 rpm for 5-10 Min's then change the oil again. I would then run it for about 500- 1000 miles and change it again. Might be a little over kill but you would clean out the oil system. Clifford is correct the oil cooler is going to be full of antifreeze and muck.
You check the bearings by looking at the bottom main bearing and the top of the rod bearings. you are looking at the part of the bearing that takes the load.
hope this helps
Don
Okay your thinking is along my own. Flush flush flush and inspect. I am quite familiar with engine measurement and inspection. What I am asking however is the opinion that antifreeze is corrosive, or that even after flushing it would lead to further damage. I have now read some sites where some of the antiquers with old poured babbit bearings are seeing the same issue, the antifreeze attacking the bearings, taking them out as it were and quite rapidly by the sounds of it. I am wondering if there is something new in antifreeze that is causing this. Does not appear to be only related to diesels.
Are you guys only worried about the mains and rods, or are the cam bearings going to have trouble too? Trying to get a picture how deep y'all feel a guy has to go into one of these buggers after a coolant bath/oil contamination. To pull the cams you would have to pull the motor and just about tear it completely down, correct??
And I was just thinking all the places the oil is pumped, alternator, air compressor, blower, what a mess.
Putting this into some perspective.
Antifreeze in the sump was not the end of the world in Big Transit.
1700 buses, and they used to be ALL 6V71 engines, even our younger technicians know how to tune 'em up.
Sadly, the last one finished a few weeks ago... anyway...
I'm talking all the way up the dipstick in some cases. Yes, they ran, Driver reported the power was sluggish...
Drain it, figure out how it was getting in and repair, pull a bearing cap to see what the bearing looked like, if it looks ok, slap it back together, follow a fill, run, drain and then short change on a cycle similar to mentioned, and forget about it.
Like the biblical Lazarus, a '71 engine can come back from the dead with a simple wave of a hand.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: buswarrior on March 09, 2012, 07:12:38 PM
Drain it, figure out how it was getting in and repair, pull a bearing cap to see what the bearing looked like, if it looks ok, slap it back together, follow a fill, run, drain and then short change on a cycle similar to mentioned, and forget about it.
Like the biblical Lazarus, a '71 engine can come back from the dead with a simple wave of a hand.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Thats how ive been doing it my whole life, how I was taught when I was a kid, and about the same way they do airplane engines.
Thank you.
No disrespect guys but we all want peace of mind in our buses. If they break down it's not as simple as getting a local wrecker to tow us to the local repair shop, it's a major wrecker coming from hundreds of miles at times, rare mechanics and lost vacations in repair shops. If everyone says something it usually is based upon experience and everyone that I've ever spoke to says bearings and coolant don't mix.. I have pulled my subaru motor 3 times in the last 2 months because I listened to the "slap her back together, she'll be fine" guys and if I just would've spent the money and did what the best mechanic around said instead of listening to the "save your money" guys, I would've saved myself alot more money and heartache in the long run. Funny the guys that said slap her back together again were never around to help or pay for the mistakes they talked me into. Lord Family, you are traveling as a family in a bus alot. Don't try to go on the cheap on this one, you have too much riding on this. Put those bearings back in and you run a real chance of being right back in the shop again. Spin a main bearing and you have a 3 thousand lb boat anchor. Line boring that block would cost you 5 grand if you could even find someone that still does it.
Don and Clifford you guys are such a blessing to this board
I'll be praying for your family through this. keep us informed.
rick
If Y'all were closer you could have the one I just pulled out of our Eagle. Pay me when you could. It ran fine, leaked a bit. But no coolant in the oil.
I hope you are able to get it fixed properly and back on the road. Don't short cut, it will cost you more later.
I dont think anyone here is suggesting "slapping" it back together. All anyone is trying to do, is find the best and most economical approach and try and save the engine. In over 40 years turning wrenches I have never yet heard of tearing an engine completely down or throwing one away because it suffered a coolant leak. I have a pile of Mercedes Service manuals (and just about every other make) and none of them recommend anything of the sort after that type of failure. Clean, inspect, major clean, repair. Massive overheat leading to unrepairable engine damage should be found in the inspection before doing anything else.
Now maybe Cliffords onto something about the Chinese junk bearings, and we must all admit Chinese parts are getting into everything and their quality is totally and completely suspect. That could change the rules by a large margin, and possibly change the entire way we approach mechanics today. Now if he finds the mains and rod bearings are chinese do we assume the cams are too? And then what??
Good morning everyone!
I so appreciate all the advice and info. It's been quite a learning curve.
Thank you for the heart felt words and prayers!
Monday we pull the head and see.
I did see coolant coming out of the line going to my alternator.... The magitude of it all is sinking in.
So the air compressor will have it too?
And the blower?
Should I be disconnecting these so they can drain?
Also upon inspecting the parts for 'made in China' I don't see that, I see ArmaSteel.
IMHO, China only makes what US companies tell them to make...
The bus was completely rebuilt about 7 years ago by Covington in Tenn and Appalachian Tours spent a lot. I'm suspecting all DD parts were used.
Thanks again!
I know of your mission, and I know these things are an interruption to your schedule, so just know there are people who are holding you up as the time passes.
Stand strong - it is all in HIS hand.
Wish I could help.
Keith
Thanks Keith!
I needed that!
We are looking for another coach with bunks if we need to go that route.
All the accessory items you mentioned are basically self draining, except for some pockets in the blower, that is why after it is all together you run it till it's warmed up and drain it. Fill it up and go 500 miles and drain it again.
Its your money but it seems to me you're over reacting if you plan to go from a broken bus that you know to a completely unknown replacement bus. Buses were designed so that engines can be swapped easily. Find yourself a takeout and swap yours out if you're convinced the one you have is history, which it sounds like it is. That way the only unknown will be the engine but you'll have an unknown engine if you change buses, along with a host of other unknowns. Presumably the bus you have is set up so you can live comfortably in it. A different bus won't likely be ready anywhere near as soon as you could have the engine swapped in your existing bus and the cost doesn't need to be extreme.
I know what its like to be broke down on the road - BTDT big time. Take time to think through your options - don't get locked into a path until you have looked at all the possibilities.
I am just going to say this and let it land where it falls. If a simple coolant leak into the oil, causing oil contamination will junk these Bus engines, I probably bail out now.
I know there is a bit more going on here with the overheat and all, but still. I bought into the whole Bus thang because I believed they were much more robust and heavy duty that the run of the mill RV junk. This is not some game, I want to go to Alaska someday. If any damned coolant leak is going to cause a total engine out replacement I need to find a different mode of transport.
So whats the consensus? Tell me Clifford is right and I can find the door now. I think its total BS myself, but if thats what y'all believe then so be it. Since before I could drive I have hated anything GM. But I always liked their Buses and thought Detroits were pretty tough. Maybe that was only misguided enthusiasm.
artvonne, you don't want the consensus off this board.
That would be a kin to drug abuse.
Too many contrary posts, too many say one thing and do the complete opposite when it is their turn, with their funds.
There's the theory, then there's the stark reality.
And too many trying to pretend that that the old ugly whore of a coach they own is a pretty young Christian virgin.
You knew enough already, before bus boards, carry on and head for Alaska.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
The water he said he put back in is not a small leak Paul what happens on those engine is the water forces the oil above the pick up tube only takes 3 gals of water to do that and the oil pump becomes a water pump lol that is when it becomes a big problem not good
I feel for the guy I hope he can repair it but have my doubts being that hot strange things happen even the top deck will move on the 92 series.About all need new main caps and line bored if it did break the web
I for one would not try and patch that engine but people do what they have the resources to do wish him luck he will need it even if he can patch it will short lived before it goes again
I have a couple of engines at the shop if you want to see what a coolant leak will do to one no viewing charges you can take your pick a 6v92,8v92 and 8v71 and I can take you and show you a mighty 60 series where it was destroyed by water in the oil happens to all Cummins ,Cat's not just a 2 stroke
good luck
I think the issue is what level of repair will achieve reliable service from the coach, and that depends on the condition of the present engine, and the uncertainty that the vehicle owner can live with. I spent a few years on an auto ferry, and the only time I got in trouble was when the boat couldn't run for the morning commute. We rebuilt engines by unit hours (now done by fuel consumed), needed or not. Of course the state paid for it, but if you cheaped out on anything, that's what broke next. And all those lawyers who wanted to get to Seattle would then call the politico's in Olympia--and you know it was the guys wearing the greasey coveralls who got in trouble.
As far as my bus, I can live with a bit of uncertainty, but I sure dread the bus being dead on the road. If I had a schedule to keep, and a family aboard, I'd thourghly go through that engine, and rebuild or replace.
Quote from: buswarrior on March 10, 2012, 08:08:54 PM
artvonne, you don't want the consensus off this board.
That would be a kin to drug abuse.
Too many contrary posts.
buswarrior
I know a Mechanic friend up in Boulder. He bought a Ferrari 308 core motor out of a salvage yard down in LA. When he pulled the heads he found one piston had a welded shut hole on it. It appeared to have dropped a valve at some earlier point in life, and some hack mechanic, rather than strip it down and fix it correctly, just goobered the hole in the piston shut with a welder, in place, and slapped it back together. Thats what I call crude. But he said it appeared to have ran that way for some time by the amount of carbon deposits. What ya dont know wont always kill ya.
I once witnessed a man whallop the prop flange of a 150 HP Lycoming that made ground contact. The flange runout was .003", accepted value was .002" IIRC. Difference between that .001" was scrap price and $20,000. He whacked her with a leather mallet saying something about metal having memory. She was just under .001" after. Do you know anything about that old crank in your motor or its history?? Probably not.
I flew a 172 that had almost 6000 hours on the bottom end since overhaul. Never skipped a beat. Okay it suffered carb ice once and almost killed me but that dont count.
I rode in a Bonanza after we did an engine change with a totally overhauled to as new engine. We took it up to put the required hour on it as a new engine, broke her is kind of deal. Ran great. Only notable issue was OP was about 5 psi below spec. No biggie, we would just shim up the pressure relief to bring it up to spec and call it good. Bob shimmed it next day, fired it up cold, warmed it, brought it up to 1700 and cycled the prop a few times, all good. Temp into the green, Bob brought power to full, and just as it pegged redline, WHOOOOOMMMMMMMMMmmmmmm...... Dead. Stopped deader than a door nail. The say silence is deafening? You have no clue.
Those Continentals have lead plugs hammered into the crank oil galley ends to hold pressure, rather than screwed in plugs. Apparently one wasnt so happy and decided to live somewhere else. Glad it didnt do it when we were out having fun burning up the sky that minute or so before it ended its life. Two guys pushing a blade couldnt turn that motor after. Scary stuff that.
The Gov of South Dakota was in a Mitsubishi MU2 with seven others. The left engine prop came apart. One of the blades went through the cabin and removed the co-pilots left arm along the way. At 24 thousand feet they declared an emergency, left engine cocked in downward angle, cannot maintain altitude, ground obscured by clouds. mayday mayday stuff. They flew down on Radar together with fligh following information from ATC. ATC said they should regain ground visibility around 1000 feet AGL. They did. They came out of the clouds at 700 feet and hit a silo in a farm field and killed everyone.
The point? You can do everything by the book and stuff will still blow up and ruin your day.
Fix whats broke, slap the SOB back together and enjoy life. Or spend more money I guess.
If the block aint cracked by the best you can determine I would proceed forward. Regardless of all thats been said, I would plastigage the bearings and if they meet spec I would run them. Flush everything through as best you can, drain everything, and start over with fresh "cheap" oil. Run it 30 minutes and dump the oil and reinstall fresh with new filters. You can put brandy new bearings in it another day if it lives the next few thousand miles. Sure would suck to put in a new engine and overheat that one too. I say make this one the Guinea pig.
There goes the LordFamily's idea to get a plane instead of a bus!
All you can do with anything mechanical is fix it and carry on.
The Lord family will find out tomorrow what is broken and what is necessary to fix it. They can then make a decision: fix what they have, or look for an other engine to swap, or an other bus.
Looks pretty simple to me...
A break down can happen with any brand of engine, like I said, just fix it and move on.
JC
Quote from: buswarrior on March 10, 2012, 08:08:54 PM
And too many trying to pretend that that the old ugly whore of a coach they own is a pretty young Christian virgin.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
BW,
No more posting after midnight on a Saturday Night! EH! ;D :P
Cliff
Quote from: lostagain on March 11, 2012, 08:40:30 AM
All you can do with anything mechanical is fix it and carry on.
The Lord family will find out tomorrow what is broken and what is necessary to fix it. They can then make a decision: fix what they have, or look for an other engine to swap, or an other bus.
Looks pretty simple to me...
A break down can happen with any brand of engine, like I said, just fix it and move on.
JC
JC,
Exactly, and well said!
Cliff
One note of caution. If they decide to get another bus, don't buy one from a church or ministry.
When our blower went out bringing the bus home for the first time. The mechanic asked if we where gamblers. He said I can rebuild the blower and be on your way and hope it didn't mess up any thing else or play it safe and tear down the motor and check every thing. We left the bus rented a car and drove home. The money was worth the peace of mind 3 months later when we drove the bus home and yes, there was more damage.
My suggestion would be rent a bus to stay on schedule have the engine rebuilt or get one that can and pick it up when done. At lest you would still have revenue coming in
Good Luck
Kevin
I am travelling ministry as well, and sometimes you just "gotta do what you gotta do". I have a family as well, and breakdowns are not fun. Before the bus I had a truck and fifth wheel, and went through 2 transmissions in the truck before I got the bus. (that was one of the deciding factors, light trucks and comercially built rv's just can't handle the road well.) Once when the transmission went out I had to leave the rv and truck at the shop for several weeks and continue on in a borrowed truck and cargo trailer. How do you think my girls liked washing thier hair under a water hose in February? Sometimes we have speed bumps in life, but God always see's you through. I am holding up your arms in prayer. Be blessed!
Paul, You have brought up a very interesting question regarding the dependability of these machines. Before getting involved with them, I had the same view that you had. Basically, if they were good for a million miles, they would certainly be good for my small use. However, it turns out that things do not necessarily work like that. These vehicles do what they were designed for very well; run long distances and/or long hours for many years if meticulously maintained. That, unfortunately, does not translate into the same level of dependability when used for relatively short trips once in a while when being maintained by amateurs on an as needed bases.
Let me use Clifford as an example (I apologize, Clifford, and please tell me if I have anything wrong). I think that everyone would agree that his expertise in this equipment far exceeds the norm here. In fact, rather than being an amateur, he is as professional as they get. I think also that I have gotten a sense that he loves these machines, and Eagles in particular. As most probably know, Clifford has been using a Safari motorhome for while now after selling his Eagle. I think if you ask him about the comparative effort and cost of travel and maintenance between the Eagle and Safari, you would find that the bus loses. What was that he once posted about an oil change-- 7 quarts instead of 7 gallons?
Now, there are other reasons that we like buses. They are sturdier and safer. They are things of great beauty to those that respect engineering and design. So, a large part of the reason that we have them is because we just plain like them. We like trying to understand them, talk about them, innovate with them, and work on them. It's a hobby, and as with most hobbies are not necessarily the most practical option.
Lin, I appreciate what your trying to say, but let me approach my thoughts differently.
I was a Ferrari enthusiast probably before I could talk. I finally was blessed to own not one, but two or them and like this Bus thing found myself in the Ferrari community. I have been wrenching on engines since I was about 10 years old, didnt see anything on the Ferrari that perplexed me so tore them apart as well. But if you think some of these Bus guys are anal you aint seen nothing. Some would do a complete overhaul every plug change dressed in Ferrari clothes, others would run the engine till the timing belt broke, doing zero maintenance the whole way, then start over fresh. And everything in between.
What ive seen and learned over the years is there are a handful men who just know engines, and tens of thousands who think they do. Does it seem logical that there are only one or two shops in all of North America that can competently work on them? No, but that is the reality. Does it seem logical that there are only two, yes, 2, body shops in all of North America, capable of doing body work on those cars to a level that no one could tell it was repaired? But those are the realities. Only because there are so many damned hacks in the world.
Ive worked on boats and outboards, same dang story my friend, just another racket for a bunch of hacks to work at separating us from our money. And I am supposed to believe that every truck shop and Bus garage in this country is going to shoot me straight when I come hobbling in with a problem? Hahahahaha. Nope. I have 100% confidence in my own eyes and capabilities.
I dont believe antifreeze is going to instantly corrode engine bearings to dust. I dont give a darn who made them or where they were made. And I base that on 40 years of engine work doing teardowns and overhauls on just about every kind of engine on the planet.
Now I do believe a sump full of water could do damage, only because that big ol crankshaft likes oil, not water. But it has nothing at all to do with that water being mixed with ethylene glycol. That why you pull the caps and look. And I do believe running the heads and block out of water can do damage and cause cracks, not only because ive read it, ive seen it.
Diesels dont like short trips. They never have. It doesnt matter what kind it is, but bigger engines are even more sensitive to short cycles. These big Detroits can take over an hour to get up to operating temperature. Longer yet on a cool day. And the heating is not equal, they heat up first in the cylinder, slowly spreading heat outward into the surrounding areas. Heat expands different metals and components at different rates. These are the clicks and pops you hear after shutdown, parts contracting against each other. Its what makes leaks, and causes gaskets to fail. Thats why I am a proponent of leaving them idle for short periods when you stop. starting them up and shutting them down can put a lot more stress on them. And the bigger the lump the more stress they would endure to rapid temperature change.
So yes, in an RV there are probably a lot of people having trouble with these that they didnt have in service, because they are being operated with a different mind set. Change the thinking and make the Bus think its in service and it might just run like it is. Treat it like your running errands, shutting it down every 10 minutes, and it may just have a fit. My feeling of why some have seen corrosion in engine bearings after a coolant leak is because those engines werent flushed very well and were not ran long and hard enough to burn off all the contaminants.
Anyway, im not a big fan of new engines. I have a lot more faith in one ive seen run and been inside of than I have in one ive never seen. The only way I would give up on this engine is if it has a crack in the block, there is nothing you can do about that. But there are a few guys here we are very blessed to have, who can point out those areas we need to inspect, and if y'all will just listen and trust them, 95% of the grief would melt away. If it turns out to be cracked thats one thing, but until then I would argue to proceed forward. I would suggest pulling BOTH heads though. Need to see the whole picture. Its not costing anything to inspect it, just take your time and keep looking. And if it does ultimately have to come out, it will be a lot lighter lol.
And just to say, airplanes are like anything else. There are good ones, and bad ones, and good mechanics and bad mechanics, but in the end its generally the pilot in command who makes the day. Kind of like racing cars.
Paul,
If you, like me a few years back, thought this was an inexpensive or a tend itself hobby I'd say you were probably mistaken. These motors don't go a million miles (which is what i thought when I first got in them) and they are extremely vulnerable to certain situations, overheating, coolant and oil mixing, gear driven alternators and the list goes on. Unless you want to drive your bus with a constant "uneasy" feeling of that thing that you put a band aid on I suggest that you do the same thing you did with airplanes and ferrari's, do it your way, but when folks ask for advice here you better be prepared for some if not most to side with Clifford and Don, if that's a problem you're probably going to find yourself arguing against most of our advice alot.
So, you reprimanded in my last post for using the phrase bus warrior had posted which was "slap it back together again" and said no one was suggesting that these folks do that and then you said it AGAIN today. So which is it?
These are the kind of discussions that just take the fun out of it for some of us.
Rick
Everybody has their own level of mechanical ability and depth of pocketbook. Each situation is different. A full rebuild is probably the absolute best option, but not everyone can afford that.
For me, I don't know if I could run with a band-aid solution knowing it could ruin a vacation and cost a bunch of money later on down the road. My Series 60 has somewhere around 400,000 miles on it and I hope it lasts me another 100,000 miles. I think it will as my friend sold his semi tractor with 1.2 million miles and the Series 60 had never been overhauled.
For someone who is full timing or retired and doesn't have to be somewhere at a certain time then a blown motor may not be as big an issue. They could possibly sit in one location and find the best way to get repairs done.
It would look like the the options are a complete fix, sell it as is, do a patch fix and use it. There are some that would do a patch fix and sell the problem, but I'm sure that it not what he is looking at.
Quote from: RickB on March 11, 2012, 02:48:48 PM
So, you reprimanded in my last post for using the phrase bus warrior had posted which was "slap it back together again" and said no one was suggesting that these folks do that and then you said it AGAIN today. So which is it?
These are the kind of discussions that just take the fun out of it for some of us.
Rick
You mistake slapping it together with proper repair. Thats what I took issue with. Your making the assuption that doing only the repairs needed to make it function correctly is slapping it together. Nothing could be farther than the truth IMHO.
Light Aircraft engines have major repairs made every day. For example, on several occasions while doing an annual inspection, one cylinder was noted to have low compression. In most cases it was a burned exhaust valve. In one case it was a rings that had lost compression.
We did not pull those engines and put in another, we repaired them. We removed the faulty cylinder and fixed the engine. When done they ran perfectly. If you want to call that slapped together I guess you can. I call it practical.
I learned to work on engines when I was young. That didnt mean R&R ing them, it meant repair. Head gaskets, valve jobs, camshaft replacement, etc., etc..
Recall I mentioned my interest in Ferrari. If you want to meet people who can make a mountain out of a mole hill, their your group. Thankfully there are a few us old farts around who still remember when they were just "cars", rather than some idol everyone needed to make sacrifices to. But still, if you want to fall out of their favor just mention doing a simple valve job and they will avoid you like the plague. Thats tantamount to Heresy in some circles.
No, I believe these heavy engines can go the distance, as I believe they can be repaired rather than continually replaced. But you probably have to drive it like a Bus rather than some commuter car. Make the commitment that once its started up its going to stay running all day.
Paul,
Quit telling me what I'm thinking okay? I'm not thinking anything, I'm quoting you. Nothing more nothing less. You seem bent on telling everyone about your airplane stuff. Interesting but this is a bus blog. Although your entitled to your opinion and I am as well, I think you're in over your head when you go out of your way to undermine advice that folks with a lot more hands on knowledge than you are giving someone that needs EXACTLY that hands on advice. You have let the Lord Family know what you would do. Great. My issue is with the fact that you and others got personal with guys that gave advice different than yours. Problem is they have forgotten more about buses than the rest of us know collectively. Those of us that have had the opportunity to be the recipients of these guys advice tend to defend them. So, if you're really sure that you're right why don't you "insure" the repairs for our friend here? You pay for it if it breaks in the next say 3-5 months.
Rick
Wooo whoa hold on a minute I go on a 3 day trip without a computer and come back to 2 pages of bickering on a thread of someone broke down and needing help?
Paul & Rick (and others) while it is your right to agree, disagree and all other options please remember this thread is about someones need of help not your personal opinions and if you wish to debate, argue or discuss your personal opinions about the others views or opinions it should be done on YOUR own thread or PM's not the Lordfamilys thread about needing help.
Have a great day play nice, and smile!
;D BK ;D
BK, Good to have you back :) ;D
Matt
You all should mind BK, now. He bites ;)
Lord family, I feel for you all. I know what it is like to have large repairs. A new coach may certainly be an option, but watch out for those mechanical issues. We are just now getting our coach up to where we want it to be, so I know it is reliable. This summer we are slated to replace the water pump and turbo. Why? Because we don't know the age of them, and really don't want to replace on the road.
The being said, make sure you don't make a hurried decision. Evaluate what you have in this coach, and what you would need in the next one. Maybe it is time to move to a van and RV trailer for a while. Evaluate other options. I don't often say this on a bus board, but make sure you look around. See what's out there.
Keep us updated.
God bless,
John
BK,
As soon as I post pages and pages of my personal opinions that contradict and undermine folks that have done the kind of good that Don and Clifford and yourself have done here you can put me in the same category as the folks who started spewing their rhetoric and moving this from a rational discussion to a "how great I art and how stupid everyone who disagree's with me is" discussion. Allowing folks to get away with this stuff is going to empty this board.
I was trying to make sure that the Lord Family realized that the vast majority of folks here side with the most experienced folks when it comes to coolant/bearings issues and I agree that a lot of posts were leading away from answers for the broken down folks that asked for help. Other than my last post and this one my attempts were to keep this on track and on subject.
These flamefests regarding oil viscosity, coolant/oil mixing effects, biodiesel. politics, religion etc are always fueled by the same folks looking for an argument and an opportunity to disagree with basically everyone about everything and they have hurt our attendance here greatly. I have no problem leaving this board if the moderators decide that these kind of discussions are healthy and encouraged.
Rick
Quote
"Tell me Clifford is right and I can find the door now, I think its total BS myself, but if thats what y'all believe then so be it"
I don't have much experience with an over heated DD ::), but yea! he's probably right! ;)
Soo, you can get to steppin'.... or sit back and learn with the rest of us, from those in the know! Pissin every one of with those ferari and airplane experiences does no one any good with a bus problem. Here for example! I am an accomplished Bike builder with xx amount of years in the industry, a Master at all I do, plus I did stay at a holiday Inn Xpress a few years ago... what's that got to do with DD's and Buses absolutely not a damn thing! Lets keep it on topic! And quit second guessing the professionals here on the board, I for one would like to keep them around as long as we can. ;D
Sorry folks! Not intending to dis-respect the good folk here on the board with my rants, but just sayin' what I think needs to be said, so there ! >:(
Enough is enough already! >:(
Van
Van,
Did you really stay at a Holiday Inn Express a couple of years ago? I am so disappointed!
Lin, you're right it's starting to show isn't it ;D? I think it was the one in Tibet ;) right next to the Detroit Diesel Dealer, high on a mountain top lol! Much Love and respect
If and when they put wings on a bus flying at above10,000ft with a air cooled DD with spark plugs and the FAA tells me when to pull a inspection I'll just keep on doing my thing on these old 2 strokes.
If I had a plane engine I would heed Paul's advice along with a few others here Paul is not going to change his way of thinking till it happens to him we are all that way to a certain point so why worry his thinking doesn't bother me.
I do hope the guy's engine can be repaired I called WW Williams for a price on a relibulit engine 30,000 for a 8v71 and 10 weeks waiting,38,000 for 8v92 and would you believe over 50 grand for series 60 12L
I don't know much about anything and I'm sure most anyone will back me up on that, but luckily (after my trip to Tibet) I'm in almost constant telepathic communication with two Detroit Diesel mechanics and one all around genius mechanic. I've been thinking about this thread a lot the past day or so because I sent Kerry to this forum (poor Kerry). I finally received a couple of telepathic messages. "A Diesel engine usually has about two times as much compression as a gasoline engine". The other message was about detonation, (whatever that is?) it said that "diesel engines run on detonation and that a gasoline engine will only run a few seconds with detonation occurring, then the piston rings and ring lands will break." After a few minutes past and I was thinking clearly again, I thought, what the crap has that got to do anything? We're working on antifreeze and bearings here. Is there any way this extra compression and detonation thing could put more load on the bearings? I don't see how, I mean both are engines, all engines are the same, right? Is there anyone who could explain this until I receive the next set of messages?
I want to make this perfectly clear. I don't know about Saturn 5 rocket booster engines but I'm deeply disappointed that those engines have not been spoken about in this thread, after all they are an important part of history.
Ken
"I called WW Williams for a price on a reliabilt engine 30,000 for a 8v71 and 10 weeks waiting,38,000 for 8v92 and would you believe over 50 grand for series 60 12L".
It's an interesting conundrum when the value of buses is going down and reliabilt's double in price over 3 or 4 years. This is not a sport for the squeamish or guys like me whose bus value is comparable to a replacement reliabilt 8v71 motor.
Clifford, I feel I owe you and Don respect for the phone calls, advice and kindness you showed me a couple years back when I bought that motor that blew up and all the other times you have helped me or others with our experienced hands on knowledge.
I guess I cross the line when I feel everyone here owes you that or that you and Don need that approval from folks.
The Lord Family will be fine, they work for a good and honest Boss! LOL!
Rick
Quote from: artvonne on March 11, 2012, 12:44:55 PM
Lin, I appreciate what your trying to say, but let me approach my thoughts differently.
I was a Ferrari enthusiast probably before I could talk. I finally was blessed to own not one, but two or them and like this Bus thing found myself in the Ferrari community. I have been wrenching on engines since I was about 10 years old, didnt see anything on the Ferrari that perplexed me so tore them apart as well. But if you think some of these Bus guys are anal you aint seen nothing. Some would do a complete overhaul every plug change dressed in Ferrari clothes, others would run the engine till the timing belt broke, doing zero maintenance the whole way, then start over fresh. And everything in between.
What ive seen and learned over the years is there are a handful men who just know engines, and tens of thousands who think they do. Does it seem logical that there are only one or two shops in all of North America that can competently work on them? No, but that is the reality. Does it seem logical that there are only two, yes, 2, body shops in all of North America, capable of doing body work on those cars to a level that no one could tell it was repaired? But those are the realities. Only because there are so many damned hacks in the world.
Ive worked on boats and outboards, same dang story my friend, just another racket for a bunch of hacks to work at separating us from our money. And I am supposed to believe that every truck shop and Bus garage in this country is going to shoot me straight when I come hobbling in with a problem? Hahahahaha. Nope. I have 100% confidence in my own eyes and capabilities.
I dont believe antifreeze is going to instantly corrode engine bearings to dust. I dont give a darn who made them or where they were made. And I base that on 40 years of engine work doing teardowns and overhauls on just about every kind of engine on the planet.
Now I do believe a sump full of water could do damage, only because that big ol crankshaft likes oil, not water. But it has nothing at all to do with that water being mixed with ethylene glycol. That why you pull the caps and look. And I do believe running the heads and block out of water can do damage and cause cracks, not only because ive read it, ive seen it.
Diesels dont like short trips. They never have. It doesnt matter what kind it is, but bigger engines are even more sensitive to short cycles. These big Detroits can take over an hour to get up to operating temperature. Longer yet on a cool day. And the heating is not equal, they heat up first in the cylinder, slowly spreading heat outward into the surrounding areas. Heat expands different metals and components at different rates. These are the clicks and pops you hear after shutdown, parts contracting against each other. Its what makes leaks, and causes gaskets to fail. Thats why I am a proponent of leaving them idle for short periods when you stop. starting them up and shutting them down can put a lot more stress on them. And the bigger the lump the more stress they would endure to rapid temperature change.
So yes, in an RV there are probably a lot of people having trouble with these that they didnt have in service, because they are being operated with a different mind set. Change the thinking and make the Bus think its in service and it might just run like it is. Treat it like your running errands, shutting it down every 10 minutes, and it may just have a fit. My feeling of why some have seen corrosion in engine bearings after a coolant leak is because those engines werent flushed very well and were not ran long and hard enough to burn off all the contaminants.
Anyway, im not a big fan of new engines. I have a lot more faith in one ive seen run and been inside of than I have in one ive never seen. The only way I would give up on this engine is if it has a crack in the block, there is nothing you can do about that. But there are a few guys here we are very blessed to have, who can point out those areas we need to inspect, and if y'all will just listen and trust them, 95% of the grief would melt away. If it turns out to be cracked thats one thing, but until then I would argue to proceed forward. I would suggest pulling BOTH heads though. Need to see the whole picture. Its not costing anything to inspect it, just take your time and keep looking. And if it does ultimately have to come out, it will be a lot lighter lol.
And just to say, airplanes are like anything else. There are good ones, and bad ones, and good mechanics and bad mechanics, but in the end its generally the pilot in command who makes the day. Kind of like racing cars.
Golly gee wilbur ??? aren,t all aviation anti-freeze coolants the same, or was that oil?
Crap! now I forgot what you all were discussing ??? fareri's or was it the aiwoplanes? ;D lol
Oh, our poor man blew a gasket in Podunk. Can we fix it, no we cant. And why even flippin bother. He was a fool for asking before he hit the send button. Why even do an inspection. The antifreeze already corroded his bearings, it happened in a Nanosecond. Doesnt matter if they look okay, the engine is junk because "they" said so. The blocks cracked, the heads are junk, probably got a split liner. If you even bother to try fixing it your a fool. Mechanics? what are they? Parts replacers my friend, this is the 21st century, get with the program.
Mechanic: short for R&R. Used to mean Repair and Replace, but modern meaning is Remove and Replace. Repairs are never to be made, otherwise the rebuilders would be out of work. R&R not to be confused with resting while on the clock, though that may apply.
The poor guy came here for help and all y'all can offer is put in a new engine or find a different Bus? Really? Thats the best help you can muster?
You really think there is lightyears difference between engines? The basic technology is well over 100 years old. Its really NOT rocket science.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_bearing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_bearing)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbitt_(metal) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbitt_(metal))
My only interest was to help save the guy a fortune. Im a mechanic, I fix things. Apparently those services are no longer needed.
Adios.
And this is why some of us are just lurkers. Too much bickering on this board.
Quote from: blank on March 12, 2012, 07:39:51 PM
Oh, our poor man blew a gasket in Podunk. Can we fix it, no we cant. And why even flippin bother. He was a fool for asking before he hit the send button. Why even do an inspection. The antifreeze already corroded his bearings, it happened in a Nanosecond. Doesnt matter if they look okay, the engine is junk because "they" said so. The blocks cracked, the heads are junk, probably got a split liner. If you even bother to try fixing it your a fool. Mechanics? what are they? Parts replacers my friend, this is the 21st century, get with the program.
Mechanic: short for R&R. Used to mean Repair and Replace, but modern meaning is Remove and Replace. Repairs are never to be made, otherwise the rebuilders would be out of work. R&R not to be confused with resting while on the clock, though that may apply.
The poor guy came here for help and all y'all can offer is put in a new engine or find a different Bus? Really? Thats the best help you can muster?
You really think there is lightyears difference between engines? The basic technology is well over 100 years old. Its really NOT rocket science.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_bearing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_bearing)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbitt_(metal) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbitt_(metal))
My only interest was to help save the guy a fortune. Im a mechanic, I fix things. Apparently those services are no longer needed.
Adios.
Well if you buckle under pressure that easily and pick up your toys and go home, all I got to say to you is ADIOS!
Thread after thread you jump in and undermine the pros and amateurs alike that have been there done that and tell everyone how you did it, or would do it and that what those who have done it repeatedly know nothing!
It's always "whatever you did I did it better, or that's not the way to do it, here's how it should be done.
I myself nor anyone else on this board is 100% perfect, but the difference is we know it.
The one man who knows more about DETROITS and buses in general gets on here thread after thread and gives his opinion & advice willingly and free. And every time he does someone always ALWAYS tries to prove him wrong or make him prove what he already knows from yrs of experience. (that's why we lost some others who DID KNOW IT ALL, and yet 1 or 2 still lurk but seldom post because of naysyaers getting on their nerves)!)
He's had some very good friends who were as professional and knowledgeable as he is try to help us but they finally gave up and left over the same hassles.
I say if you can't take lessons from one that's been there done that and get yer panty's all wadded up when called out so be it and have a great day!
;D BK ;D
This guy is most certainly a troll, He/they come and go under so many different names sometimes it is hard to keep up with Him/them, but in the end all the posts come together to reveal the original Blank, pickle, clown (stomp, stomp!) poster etc, and his original intent is obvious, ;) it doesn't take long before he/they slip up to reveal themselves :o
My apologies once again to the good members of this board, apparently a little spring cleaning was in order. My best to the Lord family.
Much L/R
Van :)
good riddance. We said a prayer for you guys! Please do let us know the outcome...don't leave us hanging on a thread! (lol) haha...sorry. Pun intended.
Yes, we'll let you know the outcome!
We've been in full time ministry for the last ten years and have seen the Good LORD do some great things in our last two buses (GMC and Prevost H5-60)
But this time so far we sense a peace and a release....
Have a great day!
Good post BK
Lord family,
My wife kids and I have logged over 60k miles traveling from Church to Church and playing basically everywhere they'd let us play just like you folks. I don't have bunks but I have a bus that sleeps 5-6 comfortably with an 8v71. We are checking if it's okay with our insurance guy and if it is, and, if you'd be willing to do all the necessary legal mumbo jumbo (since you're traveling and "making" money using the bus you'd have to have the proper insurance, licensing etc.) we'd be willing to lend you our bus until you are able to get yours sorted out.
send me a PM and I'll give you my number to discuss further.
Rick
Wow! What an offer... I'll contact you.
Thanks! PTL!
Quote from: LordFamily on March 13, 2012, 09:51:43 AM
Wow! What an offer... I'll contact you.
Thanks! PTL!
I will 2nd that. What an offer! Rick, bless you brother.
Wow!
Rickb you are a good man, this country needs more folks like you.
God bless
Rick
God bless you and your family!
That's how this broad works and stays alive. Thanks for turning a bad thread into one that is blessed
Kevin
Rick you should think about running for president, that's a TRUE American,
This decision makes me think that there was some pretty severe damage inside the engine. What did you/the mechanic find when you got in there? Getting info like this helps us all for when (if???) we have to make similar decisions. Thanks, BH NC USA
Another shout-out for Rick and this board. And yes, still would love to know the gory details on the engine damage.
Hey Kevin, had a good laugh at your spelling mistake LOL Gerry
Guys these folks are doing a lot more admirable thing then me letting them use a bus that rarely leaves the driveway the last couple years, let's face it , one way or another we all give our buses away someday.
When I offered i didn't realize that it's spring and I have a 1/3 mile dirt/gravel drive that is not gonna be ready for a bus for at least a week. There are load restrictions in place but I figure if they happen to catch us they can give me a ticket for that. I talked to Kerry today and the logistics are formidable. The two main one's being I'm in Minneapolis and they are in Florida, that's quite a distance between us. Also, I'm trying to find out if the bus could be seized if they don't do the whole commercial license vs RV license conversion and they ran into trouble somewhere because of it. I know that the Commercial vs RV license question is a touchy subject guys and I hope everyone will tread lightly here. For some folks, the difference can literally break the bank, but if it meant not feeding my kids I wouldn't hesitate to take my chances and I understand that some of you out there have to do that. My insurance guy was fairly hopeful that we could work something out so that's good news.
I wish he was closer to Clifford or Don so they could get a good hands on look at it as Florida has proven to have pretty slim pickings on the DD mechanic side and the one guy in the area wasn't in a position to help. I have a great 2 stroke guy up here but transport anywhere over a few hundred miles becomes scary expensive.
My heart goes out to this family, they are really up against it right now, but they're asking great questions which always brings great answers and they work for a really cool guy that's just crazy about them. Wish we could do a bus version of a barn raising for one family a year in need like this. Where we all figure our creative ways to help those in need that in some way help others through the use of their bus. That would be a noble cause.
Praying for grace and direction for this family. What an ironic family name for a ministry... The Lord Family.
Definitely think someone should look at the cheap '71 MC 7 near Ocala on Craigslist. I think you mentioned that already in the thread topic....if the motor is good, could be a swap?
Hargreaves
I'm glad you got a lol out of my spelling (can't spell my Way out of a paper bag) :D and sometimes spell check does not allways catch my mishaps. Did not even know of the mistake until wife lol when ask her to read it for me. Just wont everybody to know I was not making a joke of the true blessing that was offered. Hope no one was offended.
Thanks Kevin
Hey all,
Today we're having AAA RV Plus tow our bus up to Lakeland to John Silver's Central Bus. He has 4 or 5 8V71's in stock, fully tested and ready to put in, should we have to go that route. Hopefully not, but at least we'll be in the right place for all the scenarios... hopefully.
Thanks again. We so appreciate the warmth of this board and the offers to help financially. Our website LordFamilyMinistry.com (http://lordfamilyministry.com) has a PayPal donation button and/or contact info for other means for those so inclined.
We let you know how it goes!
Have a great day!
LORD Bless you all!
Quote from: LordFamily on March 14, 2012, 04:58:35 AMHey all, Today we're having AAA RV Plus tow our bus up to Lakeland to John Silver's Central Bus. (snip)
As others have said, I hope that you find a quick and inexpensive way out of this situation. Keep us up to date and we'll try to help. Best wishes, BH NC USA
Hey all,
We had the bus towed up to Lakeland yesterday. Good ole AAA RV Plus!
John Silver met my wife and I upon arrival. He made us feel welcome!
We should know something today or tomorrow.
Update...
The bus is still at Central Bus in Lakeland, FL. John Silver is replacing engine with another 8V71. They ran into some issues on differences on the replacement engine, IE: backplate, etc. which is taking longer. They should be sliding the replacement in today or tomorrow.
I'm still not sure what caused the overheating. John said they will be checking/testing radiator.
Thanks to you all for recommending him.
We have had to continue on with our tour into Georgia and hopefully, GOD willing, and the mechanics don't run into any more issues, we'll be able to pick up our bus This Thursday or Friday to head back into Georgia to continue with our singing/ministry tour.
It's been quite an adventure.. <grin> But we've been able to borrow a mini-van and utility trailer to use. We've had a couple of breakdowns with the van!!!
We'll let you know how it all turns out.
Kerry;
Great news on the engine progress. Does you Prevost have a single radiator? I strongly recommend pulling your radiator apart and boiling and rodding out the core assy. If you strip the tanks yourself, most industrial radiator shops will boil and rod the assy for less than $150. Assembly with new stainless fasteners and gasket should be less than $250 This will give you peace of mind in the future.
Great idea!
Wondering if there were any updates on this bus, thanks! :)
It was for sale on Ebay a few months ago Van I never knew if it sold or not
wow! Thank you sir! ;) ;)
Hello Folks,
I am so sorry. I thought I replied back in April when we got the bus back from Central Florida Bus.
It was cheaper and quicker to put in another know good working 8v71 engine.
They wanted me to return at about 1000 miles to tighten up anything, but we had to start heading north with our ministry schedule. The bus showed a few leaks in Virginia Beach.
We stopped at Prevost shop in NJ and had them do a Pre DOT and tighten some stuff down.
We then came on home to Maine without any issues.
Today we just got back from a 4 hour trip and again the bus is doing very well.
Thanks for all you all did for us down in Florida.
LORD bless you!
Its nice to know things are working out well. God is in control...
Quote from: chev49 on July 08, 2012, 04:13:44 PM
Its nice to know things are working out well. God is in control...
Silly me ...... I thought it was John Silver that got things under control.
Lord's. That is good news to hear, thanks for the update! ;) :)
Wait! So you never sold it??!
Sent from iPhone via Tapatalk
John Silver - Agent of God?
;)
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Hi all,
Yes, we still have the bus.
We did get into debt this winter on it and tried to sell it a few times to no avail.
So we still have it for now.