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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Bill 340 on February 02, 2012, 06:50:24 PM

Title: runs but wont go
Post by: Bill 340 on February 02, 2012, 06:50:24 PM
OK here is a weird one,  series 60, 746 Allison provost   1994,  starts and runs fine, put in gear step on throttle it comes to a complete stop, still running, just wont move, will Idle along about 1/5 mph.  reverse the same, was  running fine earlier today, then decided at every stop light it would bog WAY down and finally pick up and run fine, for about 30 miles, THEN decided it will not play anymore, and now , every time you step on the pedal forward or backward it stops SUDDENLY. put in neutral and rev it up fine, put it in any gear and it wont rev past 10,000 or move in either direction.let it idle in gear and it seems fine,  Now this afternoon  backing up to the shop when in reverse the rear drive axle locked and jumped a little,  Now lets hear the Ideas, the shop does not have one Yet, all help here is appreciated, and will update you all when the problem is found.
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: robertglines1 on February 02, 2012, 07:10:11 PM
ck oil color in transmission. choclate=water cooler for trans leaking=broke trans. Not sure if your is one that has liquid cooled trans or not. Black or burned smell=burned clutches in trans. Bk had problem a few years ago with one. First thought was fuel but farther I read sound like trans especially jerk.  Sucks.  Bob
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: luvrbus on February 02, 2012, 07:20:44 PM
Does it have a retarder ?  could also be a broken axle or bolts sheared on the ring gear cage
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: robertglines1 on February 02, 2012, 07:24:35 PM
Clifford beat me to it.  Do you feel bus torque when you apply power. Guess you could pull drive shaft and eliminate rear end.  or prove it to be problem. 
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: Ed Hackenbruch on February 02, 2012, 07:33:24 PM
Electronics?  sensors?   ???
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: Cycletek on February 02, 2012, 07:42:10 PM
What is your air pressure?
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: robertglines1 on February 02, 2012, 07:46:20 PM
Actually his onboard computer should give him fault codes from his DDEC IV.I believe that should be his system Maybe DDEC III. Both should have. Hope it is something simple. Also My 98 has a Jake disable switch.I would assume his does also on ddec 3 0r 4.   Just general info.  Good luck.  Bob
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: Bill 340 on February 02, 2012, 07:54:40 PM
did not check codes yet, air pressure normal,  feels just like you are parked against a wall, wants to move but cant, No tel tale lights nos pro driver  notes either,  twice  there was a loud clunk when backing up. but it drove fine for 200 miles aftyer that, drive avle seems to graband lock when reversing??????????
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: Cycletek on February 02, 2012, 08:05:13 PM
Sounds like it lost a tooth off the ring gear and it grabs it every so often or a carrier bearing coming apart spragging and tying up the rotation of the carrier. Very interested in what you find out!
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: robertglines1 on February 02, 2012, 08:06:37 PM
Guess you pretty well figured it out your self. just has to be differential prob.  Ck by pullin drain plug and see what falls out.  Off wall ideal brakes seized?? loose shoe in drum?   look thru inspection holes from rear.   Bob
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: Bill 340 on February 02, 2012, 08:14:46 PM
will let you all know when its discovered, till then all suggestions are appreciated. till the problem is found all ideas are welcome, thanks  Bill
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: robertglines1 on February 03, 2012, 04:11:01 AM
Simple non $ ck  lift tags  and try.  If it works ask me will explain.  problem about that time frame.  Discovered in research on my current build.       I know doesn't make much sense but doesn't cost anything either.   Bob
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: Ed Hackenbruch on February 03, 2012, 06:31:55 AM
Low on tranny fluid?
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: TomC on February 03, 2012, 08:31:20 AM
Sounds like a rear end problem-maybe a blown thrust bearing.  Those big rear ends are expensive-suggest you not drive it anymore until you pull the pumpkin out and inspect it (also VERY heavy).

On another gear front-we have a fairly new truck in with a Series 60 that stripped the smaller gear on the bull gear (engine gear train for the overhead camshaft). Luckily the driver stopped immediately and nothing additional was ruined.  As compared to another driver that with his Mercedes-Benz 4000 engine, dropped a valve and continued driving the 5 miles back to the yard.  Ultimately was a $15,000.00 engine mistake.  Good Luck, TomC
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: Bill 340 on February 05, 2012, 12:40:52 PM
Well its still at the shop. they didn't have a chance to look at it till Monday,, they did have to move it, AND it started like always, put it in gear, it went forward like it should, put it in reverse and it backed in the shop as it should.  Now seem since it cooled down it wants to drive normal,  even when it was acting up. if you got it moving it shifted Thur all the gears fine, just if you stopped it would lock up on every take off, the engine temp was 198 the trans temp was 200,  Any more thoughts, I am sure the shop could use a few hints as its their first of this kind, thanks  Bill
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: Ace on February 05, 2012, 01:29:26 PM
My thought and it's a left field chance but under the circumstances of what we already know I'm banking on a really simple fix like not enough trans fluid! Those trans hold quite a bit and maybe not enough fluid would cause the pump to captivate (sp) air lock or whatever you call it! It's just a wild guess since the mechanic said it was pretty low and you said its always had a leak! Te will tell but could you hurry up and get off the pit, I'd sure like to get my air bags installed! :)
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: luvrbus on February 05, 2012, 01:49:31 PM
Maybe a little wait Ace sounds like the stator rollers are bad and seize up with the heat or a bad torque converter
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: robertglines1 on February 06, 2012, 07:01:06 PM
? any progress
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: bobofthenorth on February 06, 2012, 07:44:22 PM
If we're guessing I'll play along.  I'm betting a broken axle.  It would be a lot more fun if we put a little money on the table though.     ;D
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: Van on February 06, 2012, 08:38:12 PM
Bob, lol I'll check and see what kind of odds they'll give in the sports books ;D
  I hope it is nothing serious though all funnin to the side. ;)
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: Ace on February 07, 2012, 08:57:17 AM
Got an Allison tech coming in to do some checking with reader! Flash code showed a 15 but not sure if that is recent or history! 15 is reverse pressure switch.
Hopefully it will be an easy fix and not costly!
Don't think anything major is broken since broken parts don't fix themselves to act up then become normal then act up again especially with no grinding or noises! Leaning toward something electronic! Again, hopefully!
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: wg4t50 on February 11, 2012, 12:55:26 PM
Any news on Bill's issue with the Allison or what ever the issue might be ?
Thanks
Dave
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: Ed Hackenbruch on February 11, 2012, 01:24:51 PM
On the other board he said that the tranny is going into the Allison shop.
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: wg4t50 on February 11, 2012, 01:30:01 PM
Ed, Thanks for the info,now I have to ask, What other board ?   I have been away from the bus crowd too long I see.
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: Ed Hackenbruch on February 11, 2012, 01:50:39 PM
BNO  :)
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: Bill 340 on February 11, 2012, 03:26:33 PM
Yep goin to the shop for a tranny rebuild, hope to have it back in 8-10 daysm no word yet on cost,
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: luvrbus on February 11, 2012, 03:44:49 PM
Sorry to hear that, it is your bucks but me personally I would look for a World Transmission to replace the 746 behind your 60 series both the 741 and 746 are not real reliable be sitting down when Allison tell you price unless it is a exchange big bucks for rebuilding the transmission taken from the coach

good luck
Title: Re: runs but wont go
Post by: Ericbsc on February 11, 2012, 05:31:57 PM
I know where thereis a nice 4000 series 6 speed for sale. The same I have in my bus. The double overdrive will pay for its self in fuel savings. A 60 series with 740 and 3:36 turns over 1800 rpms @ 70 mph with R24.5's. Mine with the 6 speed and the same runs at 1450 rpm's. Wouldn't even think about rebuilding the 748!!