Hey All,
We have just started the process of updating an already converted bus (I should be posting pictures soon). We are converting the bus from 2 big people to 2 big people and 4 little people. Because of this we are foreseeing the need to change from 40 gallon fresh and 40 gallon gray to 100+ gallon fresh and 100+ gallon gray. Because we are on a budget, I am having a hard time with $500.00 tanks from Ronco but at the same time I want to make sure I only have to do this swap once. If anyone has some good resources to find some solid tanks, I'm all ears. Space I am working with is 24"x24"x50" for fresh and 14"x24"x48" for gray. We have a budget of around 400-500 for both tanks but less would be great.
Thanks to all!
-Sean
The absolute best option is to make your own custom tanks from polyethylene sheet using plastic welding. Gumpy has a website showing how he made his own plastic welded tanks, and IMHO that is the best way by far. You may end up slightly over your $500 budget, but if you think it out well in advance, you'll end up with exactly what you want.
I used the AQUATANK II which is "like" a waterbed mattress.
Mine fits in my 8" tall bay, is 3' X 6', and holds up to 150 gallons.
Bob and Matt were great to make sure it worked perfectly.
The aquatank (not II) will not handle the movement, but the model II is the one we installed.
I am sure it comes in other sizes.
Art - I have read Gumpy's site and contemplated that. I am not sure we have the space or time in our current situation. It is a thought I will hold onto though.
PCC - Nice. Not sure about that. Maybe if we added a second tank for drinking water only and I could install it under the bed. But for our main tank I am going to need something solid. I guarantee you that my 4 year old boy would somehow find that yellow bag full of water and slay it like it was a dragon.
I have seen this tank a few times online - (ebay, RVSurplus)
http://www.rvsurplus.net/catalog/display.php?product_id=2810 (http://www.rvsurplus.net/catalog/display.php?product_id=2810)
Anyone have this in their bus?
-Sean
I built fiberglass and plywood tanks about twenty years ago and the last time I talked to the new owner, they were still holding up fine. This was for waste only, not drinking water.
The advantage is that you can build them exactly the size you want to take the best advantage of the available space. When I did mine, I built one large tank with a divider in it for black/gray about 40/60 but now it think 30/70 would be better. The advantage is a bit less material.
The nice thing about the plastic welding, is you can so easily contour the tanks shape to perfectly fit a unique space, taking full advantage of the areas capacity, and utilizing available space much more efficiently.
The additional advantage of it, is that I think it would be the fastest way to get the tanks you want. I would bet that given the materials on hand, the proper tools, and having your design layed out ahead of you, you could weld up the tanks in less than a day. Once you had the welding going it will likely go pretty fast.
I plan to have the floor plan and bay layout down rock solid, as well as vent locations, long before I begin tank construction. Ive grown quite tired of the cut twice after measuring once method, and relocating holes. Its really hard to cut short boards longer.
The way I figure it, you have only enough space for about 70 gallons for the gray tank. I've been wrong before...
Can you contour the shape of a plastic welded tank? I suppose you could if you had some way of softening and bending the plastic, but all the ones I've seen have been fabricated out of flat sheet. Blow-moulded or injection-moulded plastic tanks can be a contoured shape, but they're a different animal and not something you can make yourself.
I'm beginning to think about the tanks for my bus; I originally assumed that I would be making my own fibreglass tanks as I've plenty of experience of working with fibreglass. I'm not so sure now though - to do it properly would take quite a bit of work and consume lots of fibreglass, so although you can create exactly what you want I don't really think it's the 'cheap' option that it first appears to be.
But on the other hand I'm not sure I'd want to have a go at fabricating my own welded plastic tank. I can imagine getting it installed in the bowels of the bus (my tanks aren't simply going in the bays), then having a disaster as the weight of 100 gallons of water split open one of the welded seams.
So at the moment I figure I'll be getting tanks professionally fabricated to my design - not the cheapest option but not prohibitively expensive either, and the peace-of-mind is probably worth it
Jeremy
Quote from: Jeremy on January 26, 2012, 02:58:03 PM(snip) the peace-of-mind is probably worth it
Yeah.
My brother also made wood/fiberglass tanks which worked fine for years, so that is always a cheap option instead of making plastic ones.
As far as black/grey ratios, etc. i have a 30 gal black; 108 grey tanks; 135+ 25 fresh; 20 generator; 30 propane; extra 5 gal gas n 7 gal propane tanks.
These are about right for us two we can go for a long time with careful water use.
http://www.plastic-mart.com/item.aspx?id=1462 (http://www.plastic-mart.com/item.aspx?id=1462)
$167 for one 100 gallon tank. They were an easy company to work with. Took the tank to a local plastic parts manufacturer and had them spin-weld fittings into the plastic. Have full-timed with these tanks for nearly a year now with heavy use (lots of people coming and staying with us for a week at a time) and have not had a single issue.
I had tanks custom welded out of HDPE -- a little pricey I thought but I am only going to do this once (I thought).
Had a few issues with some seams so I pulled the tank and found the leak and called the company that made them for me and it was out of business.
Found another company to repair the tank -- once again kind of pricey but I wanted it done right.
Now these tanks were not free floating but secured in a metal cage for support to prevent pressure on the seams.
Well long story short I have new galvanized steel tanks with removable tops and I use a separate source for any consumable water.
Make your own if you want but my recommendation is if you want custom sized tanks go to a tank company and have them made if you can work with a tank that comes premade that would be the cheapest and easiest.
I wanted to fill the bay with the tanks --- 165 fresh 135 grey and 30 black --- we take long hot showers even when on the road.
YMMV
HTH
Melbo
I got a couple of tanks from www.tankdepot.com (http://www.tankdepot.com). They have lots of selection and you can browse thru and pick the ones that suit your space the closest. I think it was 30. extra to install the 3 fittings i needed. I got a 3", 2" and 1 1/2" for my waste tank. Be aware when you pick one that they have several points of origin and the shipping. I think mine ended up coming from Michigan. One thing you might want to do is build a mock up out of cardboard and mark your fitting locations so you can actually see where everything works out. In trying to get the most tank in my very short bays, i almost dident have enough room at the top for one of my fittings. The prices can vary so search away.
Quote from: Seangie on January 26, 2012, 11:56:33 AM
I have seen this tank a few times online - (ebay, RVSurplus)
http://www.rvsurplus.net/catalog/display.php?product_id=2810 (http://www.rvsurplus.net/catalog/display.php?product_id=2810)
Anyone have this in their bus?
I have two of those exact tanks in my bus. One is the fresh water tank with molded-in fittings and the other is the waste tank. The waste tank came as a sealed tank with no holes or fittings. I had to add some rubber fittings to attach my waste lines. The way I did the outlet is not ideal, but it hasn't leaked yet. I think RV Surplus might be able to have fittings added to a custom tank as the manufacturer is close to Elkhart.
I picked up my tanks off the shelf at RV Surplus in Elkhart. My trip home with my bus took me right through Elkhart.
These guys you can order any size.
Dave
http://www.tank-depot.com/ (http://www.tank-depot.com/)
When I bought my tanks directly from Ronco plastics, they gave me half price off from the catalog prices. And don't look in their RV catalog-look in their marine tanks catalog. In their marine catalog, they have the H455 100gal tank for $540.43-hence half off will give you the two tanks for around $500.00! Search over! Suggestion-they are also open to price suggestions. Offer to have both tanks made for $500.00 flat. Good Luck, TomC
P.S: I had Ronco tanks on my big rig mounted on my fuel tank cross bars with the drive shaft above. In over 800,000 miles of driving (trucks ride much rougher then buses) no problems with the tanks. Highly recommend you buy your tanks from Ronco and not fool around with trying to make them-there are just some things that should be bought.
try chemical container in lake wales fl. the cheapest we ever found, pre made. we have I think 14x 24 x 48 and that's about 70 gal. they make tanks for chemicals so we assumed that our chemicals would not hurt them. second coach and would buy again, cheap an d lots of stock,
Sean:
Something you may also consider is to train your family to use a whole lot less water. When bathing, a quick wet-down. Then shut off the water, soap up and shampoo, then rinse off. You would be surprised. It is possible to bathe in two gallons for us guys, or three if the lady has long hair. For this purpose, have a hot and a cold faucet, plus a third one in line with the shower head.
Quote from: bottomacher on January 26, 2012, 01:22:11 PM
The way I figure it, you have only enough space for about 70 gallons for the gray tank. I've been wrong before...
You are correct here - I have to get creative with the space. Fortunately for me the space I am working with is rectangular, unfortunate is the PO has already done the hard work and run everything and that is what I will have to get creative with.
Quote from: belfert on January 26, 2012, 09:11:33 PM
I have two of those exact tanks in my bus. One is the fresh water tank with molded-in fittings and the other is the waste tank. The waste tank came as a sealed tank with no holes or fittings. I had to add some rubber fittings to attach my waste lines. The way I did the outlet is not ideal, but it hasn't leaked yet. I think RV Surplus might be able to have fittings added to a custom tank as the manufacturer is close to Elkhart.
Belfert - Thanks for this - I think for the price this may end up what we go with. At least for fresh water.
Quote from: Scott Bennett on January 26, 2012, 03:25:56 PM
http://www.plastic-mart.com/item.aspx?id=1462 (http://www.plastic-mart.com/item.aspx?id=1462)
$167 for one 100 gallon tank. They were an easy company to work with. Took the tank to a local plastic parts manufacturer and had them spin-weld fittings into the plastic. Have full-timed with these tanks for nearly a year now with heavy use (lots of people coming and staying with us for a week at a time) and have not had a single issue.
Scott - Thanks for the suggestion - Thinking outside the tank...err...box.... I'll keep that in mind as we look.
Quote from: TomC on January 26, 2012, 10:47:07 PM
When I bought my tanks directly from Ronco plastics, they gave me half price off from the catalog prices.
Tom, This will be my 1st shot - If they can get a gray tank to me for half off with fittings in place it would seal the deal.
Quote from: Mex-Busnut on January 27, 2012, 04:10:58 AM
Something you may also consider is to train your family to use a whole lot less water. When bathing, a quick wet-down. Then shut off the water, soap up and shampoo, then rinse off. You would be surprised. It is possible to bathe in two gallons for us guys, or three if the lady has long hair. For this purpose, have a hot and a cold faucet, plus a third one in line with the shower head.
Mex - Thanks again. I think we will start trying this at home and plug up the tub and see what kind of water usage we get. We will make it a home school project and post it on the website.
Dave5cs, DmoeDave and Bill340 And Everyone else - Thank you for all the suggestions. I have looked around at tank depot and will check out chemical container in Lake Wales as well.
-Sean
If you have a bit of time, check the phone book or Google poly tanks, storage tanks, rotational molding anything you can think of with tanks. You may find someone in your area. It is possible to get real lucky and find some seconds, left overs, out of style tanks for a real deal. That happened to me in Lakeland FL.
I never drank water from my holding tank. Too many unknown sources ;D I carried 6 one gallon jugs in the toad, anytime I went somewhere I refilled the jugs.
HTH JIm
I can second TomC's experience with Ronco. They made my four tanks that total 400 gallons for about $2.50 per gallon, including spin-welding in three fittings per tank where I want. If you're near Tustin CA it's a good way to get them.
John
Quote from: bottomacher on January 26, 2012, 01:22:11 PM
The way I figure it, you have only enough space for about 70 gallons for the gray tank. I've been wrong before...
Not sure how your getting that. My rear bay is roughly 105 cu ft in volume, and mine is one of the smaller Buses. If it was a tank, it would have a capacity of 785 gallons. Many of the later Buses have bays as much as 50% larger volume.
While buying ready made tanks certainly makes decisions easier, it is impossible to entirely fill an area of odd size or shape with any standard size tank, forcing you to waste valuable space. I started looking at ready made tanks early on, and became frutrated they were all some oddball size, to wide, too short, too tall, etc.. That got me looking at custom made tanks, but the costs of those go straight through the roof, which got me looking at DIY versions by searching these forums and the web in general.
It turns out that many people have made their own tanks for Bus Conversions over the years, and with very few exceptions they all have had very good luck. Gumpy's web page showing exactly how he made his own poly tanks is informative, and right up my alley, and convinced me to give it a try. I have already bought the welder and have located a supplier, I just need to start practicing on some scrap and then go for it.
By limiting myself to two 125 gal tanks, and making them perfectly fit into a prescribed space, I can save room for other systems and still have room for something else should the need arise.
Quote from: artvonne on January 27, 2012, 10:02:14 AM
Quote from: bottomacher on January 26, 2012, 01:22:11 PM
The way I figure it, you have only enough space for about 70 gallons for the gray tank. I've been wrong before...
... Not sure how your getting that.
Umm, from the dimensions he posted at the very beginning of the thread?
Quote
My rear bay is roughly 105 cu ft in volume, ...
Well, OK, but Sean is starting with an already fully-converted bus, so he doesn't have any completely empty bays. Unless he wants to rip everything out and start over, knowing the factory dimension of an empty bay doesn't help. He stated at the outset that he's trying to make just enough modifications to meet his needs. FWIW.
Sean -- you have a challenge here.
Roto-molded tanks are absolutely the best possible solution, when you can fit an available size into the space required. And therein lies the problem -- roto-molded tanks (which have no seams and are essentially leak-proof) are only available in dimensions based on existing molds. An RV manufacturer has the luxury of paying the setup fee for a mold in any dimensions they might need, but we self-converters have to choose from what's already being molded.
In addition to Ronco, Ardemco on the west coast has an enormous selection of sizes available, but none comes close to the exact dimensions you listed. If you are stuck with those dimensions, then the best way to get every last ounce of capacity into them is to make the tanks yourself (or have them made). Your choices then become fiberglass-coated plywood, welded HDPE, or welded stainless. Of these, stainless is probably cost-prohibitive based on your posted budget.
This is one area where you may wish to look at a judicious re-arrangement of existing bay systems to try to fit more commonly available molded sizes. The ones from RV Surplus are probably the best deal you will ever find on roto-molded tanks. Lots of places can spin-weld the proper fittings on for you, so don't let the fitting placement deter you.
BTW, as a calibration, we use an average of less ten gallons per day here aboard
Odyssey, for two adults. We can easily go 14 and in a pinch as many as 17 days on our 135-gallon fresh and 135-gallon gray tanks. And that's with a not particularly conservative lifestyle -- we do take navy showers, wash dishes by hand, do our laundry at a laundromat, and we have valves that let us make the shower or dish water hot without wasting a drop waiting for it.
HTH,
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Quote from: Sean on January 27, 2012, 04:01:01 PM
Well, OK, but Sean is starting with an already fully-converted bus, so he doesn't have any completely empty bays. Unless he wants to rip everything out and start over, knowing the factory dimension of an empty bay doesn't help. He stated at the outset that he's trying to make just enough modifications to meet his needs. FWIW.
Umm, first of all, the quote I responded to did not make reference to any other thread, it was simply a statement which I responded to. Secondly, stating the size of my bay was only to make the point there is a lot of capacity. Thirdly, I dont believe anything I said suggested ripping everything out and starting over, I don't understand where you got that idea.
I was fully aware he was trying to meet his needs, and trying to gain maximum capacity from available space, within a tight budget, which is why I suggested custom made tanks.
In fact, there is no other way to achieve that goal. FWIW.
Sean: Poly tanks from Rv Surplus are good product have used on 4 coaches. no leaks. If you were able to go to store could get for about $1 a gallon. Shipping etc cost bucks. Ck where your doing work local supplier. Florida or NC? Also Could you relocate fresh water to inside coach (pumped water knowns no gravity) and use old tank to combine use to equal enough waste? I put Poly tanks into computer and found manfacture less than 5 miles from house ( I live in rural America) and know family owners. Building my tanks custom. Never would have imagined that would have been part of their business: Porta poties. Never would Imagine they would build sanitary water tanks also (differant plastic) as part of their portable 10 unit event facility (trailer like). Bob
Lots of great info in this thread.
Please let us know what you decide and how it turns out!
Best of luck,
- Preston
For goodness sakes don't go to the local trunk junk yard and find aluminum fuel tanks that
fit where you are going to use them.
It will bring the rath of some out.
They will pit out,they will taste like diesel. all sorts of reasons not use.
But they will be "CHEAP"
been in huggy for about 20 years now
uncle ned
Hello Sean.
Sorry, late to the game.
I got mine from this place: http://www.plastictanks.ca/category.php?cat_id=029 (http://www.plastictanks.ca/category.php?cat_id=029)
That is the rectangular tank catalog, cut the link back to see a ton of other tank options in their catalog.
For my MCI, I got the 49 gallon 60" x 21" x 9.5" ones. Standing up so that the 21" is up and down under the utility channel. Vendor spun in whatever fittings, where ever I wanted them.
I got two to start, one each, fresh and combined gray/black. Expandable to two more for just short of 100 gallons for each side.
Leaves me some good space to insulate and box them and the plumbing inside for warmth, as I intend to be Canadian winter functional.
Also, a warning: lots of people brag on their success building their own tanks, few brag of their failures.
The internet does not offer a fair sample to make a decision in that regard.
happy coaching!
buswarrior