I plan to make a metal case with floor vents for my 2 40# tanks (OO) in the center of my middle bay (towards the front wall).
This is also the same bay as my inverter and 120V breaker box [X].
Is this OK to put propane and electric in the same bay? Or is this a hazard?
Also where do I get all the fittings and tubing to go from my regulator to my hot water hearer, furnace, and range?
Thanks in advance!
here is a nifty diagram of my bays.
X=inverter and 120V breaker box
oo= tanks
-----------------------------------------------
| |[X] | | Drivers[ ] seat
| | O| |
| | O| |
| | | |
-------------------------------------------door---
You need to vent the LP compartment to the outside at both the top and the bottom. The vents need to be at least 6 square inches each for the two 40# cylinders. The compartment also needs to be "vapor tight" to the inside of the rig, which would included anything else in the bay such as your electrical gear.
Frankly, I would not put an LP cylinder in the same bay with switchgear, no matter how good I thought my compartment-sealing skills were.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Ok thanks for the info, I will put them in the front bay then. Better safe than sorry!!!
I live next to a metals shop so having an air tight box made won't be too hard. Making the door sealed will be the hard part.
What about running pipes thru the electrical bay? What would you suggest?
sean must be out the door and on the way to dinner.... that is the shortest reply i have ever seen him make ;D . merry Xmas Sean and Louise.
Quote from: Oregonconversion on December 24, 2011, 03:43:19 PM
... What about running pipes thru the electrical bay? What would you suggest?
The pipes should not be a problem -- just make sure any fittings in there are well sealed.
Quote from: desi arnaz on December 24, 2011, 04:06:53 PM
sean must be out the door and on the way to dinner....
That was exactly correct, Tom. Hey, it's Christmas Eve ya know :)
Quote
that is the shortest reply i have ever seen him make ;D
Hmm... So what are you saying?
Happy holidays, everyone!
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.bogspot.com)
i have used the fluid coupling place to make up hose ends mainly cause i have them do all the equipment hoses and they have a whole room of different fittings, and so forth... a real gold mine of stuff to use for all kinds of things..
welding some 18 ga sheet metal in for a compartment, n vented low and on the door, should work, although i see nothing wrong with separating the compartment with framed in plywood and properly sealed.
n i wouldnt put anything in the same compartment i made with the propane tank, unless its something like my gloves...:)
I grew up with propane tractors, propane heat and appliances, and my race car is propane powered, so i am not scared of propane, but I still recommend making a discreet compartment for the storage bottles. Breakers will make small arcs when opening and closing under load. I don't have the NFPA 58 in front of me any more, but I'm pretty sure it requires a bulkhead as well. I will look for the instruction but it's written in bureaucratic so it takes some time to decipher. NFPA 58 is like the NEC's of propane.
I notice some of the RV's use electric change overs and electric gauges on propane bottles, I notice on the newer RV's they also use polyethylene pipe on the inside with steel in exposed areas on the outside for propane who knows lol
Like UglyDog I see old tractors here with propane tanks mounted on top of spark fired engines running every day even on new fork lifts
Quote from: Uglydog56 on December 25, 2011, 09:32:21 AM
... NFPA 58 is like the NEC's of propane.
NFPA 1192, not 58, governs LP on RVs. The requirements I listed above (vapor-tight compartment, with specific venting sizes top and bottom) are straight from NFPA 1192. I suppose I should have mentioned that.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
The big difference is those old tractors are operating in free air, not in confined spaces.
I would also recommend you have a shut-off valve for each appliance so if one leaks or fails it can be isolated from the rest of the LP system.
Do people here run individual lines from a manifold to each appliance, or do you run a single black-iron pipe along the bus and branch off it for each appliance? Also, does anyone here used stainless corrugated flexible gas line instead of hard piping?
John
Run hard pipe to the area then SS flex to the fixture.
oops, sorry for misinformation. Does it really say you can't run copper pipe? My whole bus propane is copper.
Quote from: Uglydog56 on December 26, 2011, 11:06:11 PMoops, sorry for misinformation. Does it really say you can't run copper pipe? My whole bus propane is copper.
I have seen posted a number of times that it is against the law in California to use copper pipe (RV, home, industrial) for propane. I've never checked it out but that's what people have said. Apparently CA is worried about corrosion in the copper. (An equal number of people have posted "my daddy put copper pahp in ower '37 WobbleMobile purtt near 30 year ago and it ain't never give no trouble".) So the whole issue is clear as mud.
Quote from: Uglydog56 on December 26, 2011, 11:06:11 PM
... Does it really say you can't run copper pipe? My whole bus propane is copper.
My copy of NFPA 1192 says that threaded copper pipe is allowed as well as annealed copper tubing which must be Type K or L conforming to ASTM B 88 or ASTM B 280.
I could find nothing in the California Vehicle Code further restricting RV LP systems (as distinct from LP systems for motor fuel), so perhaps Bruce can cite a code section for this. I do now that California demands the LP compartment be clearly labeled "LPG" in contrasting letters not less than 2" in height (CVC 27909).
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Someone mentioned rubber hose. Propane requires a special hose - at least on the high pressure side. It has been a long time since I was involved with the hose, but I remember the so-called "pricking" process. After the hose was cured, a pricking wheel with very sharp pins was run over the hose so that the cover material had a large number of very small holes. This was done to prevent the very slight permeation that penetrates the tube material from bubbling the hose cover and making a big release of propane. I plumbed my heater in the shop with this type of hose on the low pressure side just to be safe.
My point on the hose is that if you walk into a "hose house" to have an assembly made, be sure they use the proper hose.
The second thing I would like to emphasize is to use a propane detector that has a signal for a solenoid valve. The valve is mounted right after the regulator. Here is one:
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/lp-gas/lp-co-detector-with-valve.htm (http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/lp-gas/lp-co-detector-with-valve.htm)
You must have a propane detector. It makes no sense to me to have a detector that just makes noise. This is especially true if you have a leak when you are away from the coach. I used to install a CCI 7719 unit which includes the valve when I installed one of my system. I wired it such that any detection of a fire (OR propane leak) would shut off the propane. CCI was the industry leader and provided most of the detection systems for the RV industry. The high end vehicles had the 7719 system with the valve. CCI went out of business a few years ago. I think I still have one or two systems left.
Jim
Hmm... never heard of the "pricking" process. On one side it makes sense... but on the other it does not at all LOL.
I just remembered I know this guy that can do copper fittings and has sone some RV propane experience. I think I am going to have him do it.
Sounds like a good idea to have some type of case or shell over the copper pipe incase something hits it??
Also... if I build the cylinder container out of wood or metal, how do I vent the top? Anyone have an idea about how to make a door with a good seal? I need to be able to get the tanks out to fill them.
Also, do I need copper from the tank to the regulator? Or is rubber ok?
Quote from: Sean on December 27, 2011, 06:01:47 AM(snip) I could find nothing in the California Vehicle Code further restricting RV LP systems, so perhaps Bruce can cite a code section for this.
Nope. Don't have a citation or any dog in that fight (I live closer to where my bus was made in England than to CA) but, as I said, I've seen several posters here say that CA regs don't allow copper. There seemed to be some implication that it was a requirement that applies to "fixed building" use that's been also crossed over to RV's. So far as I know, it might not be true, it might be true only in places with "over-zealous" inspectors, it might have applied at one time but not now, or it may be a valid requirement. But with as many times as I've seen it posted here, if i was in CA, I'd at least check carefully. (My own guess is that it is *NOT* a valid requirement, but I was just raising a flag that it seems to me to be worth checking out.)
I do not know for sure that CA does or does not allow copper for propane. I do remember some 40 years ago that CA did not allow copper for natural gas. At that time, CA did allow it for propane though. I mention this because I was wondering if the poster was quoting a natural gas regulation for propane. However, I know that I have seen copper used on both numerous times.
at $3.30 a pound why would you use copper anyway?
beleive it or not, when i was getting some groceries last week at the store, they had some barbecues out that had a hose that i could bend completely in half. They were most likely unreinforced plastic, like the cheap clear hose at lowes, only they were much thinner sidewall.. so i dont know how they can sell those things. the point is that the low side after the regulator is extremely low pressure. Personally i use the 300 test triple wall reinforced hose on the low side, but that is way overkill.
By the way, high pressure propane pigtails are available online cheaply. I bought a 7 foot one last years and think they probably come even longer.
If you read my post just picked up on item out of my install book that in line there should be a non conductive hose between tank and my gen set. Also any steel pipe should not be run in same run as electrical wiring. FWIW Bob