Hey guys and gals,
Me, 4 kids and my wife are on our way to Universal Studios and we are now stranded at the Gold Strike Hotel about 20minutes from Vegas.
My "not gen" light came on. On further investigatin I noticed the pullly to the 8V71 has stripped off (keeping with the vegas theme). I am not sure how it was attached but key way on the shaft is still recognizable, the bolt? on the end, if it is a bolt is now rounded off.
The keyway on the pully is barely visable and severly damaged.
I am going to purchase a US phone in the next half hour to help facilitate my getting back on the road. I will also check this thread in an hour or so.
Thank you in advance for any and all suggestions.
I do have a genset and can charge the coach battery while driving. I can make it to LA. I have no OTR heat so I need to repair before going back to Canada.
I'm pretty sure you'll be able to find help between Vegas and LA.
I'm sure Don Fairchild in Bakersfield could help. (detour would add 107 miles. Gold Strike to Universal is 248 and a side trip to Bakersfield would make it 355)
Clifford is on the AZ-CA border near Bullhead City, but I don't think he's home right now. (gone for the holidays if I am correct)
And I know TomC is in LA and there are some others near too!
Van is near you now in Vegas.
And there is B & B Coach in Vegas too.
Plus I'm sure there are others I'm not aware of.
;D BK ;D
Randy, which pulley are you talking about? the one on the alternator or the one on the engine?
Hi Ed, It is the pully on the Engine - can I have yours :)
I called some of the locals and I would probably have some luck here in Vegas (2 stroke Pete??) but I have a bus full of kids ready to take on LA. I will limp to LA in hopes that someone can help us on the coast.
The Detroit guys wanted to know the serial number off the Engine but was unsure of where it is stamped on the block.... anyone know?
I just spoke to Randy ( saddle up gave me a call about the break down) He said the pulley (engine) was toast and the bolt head was rounded off. He needs a pulley so I put him in touch with the Yoda' as he might have the one needed.
Quote from: van on December 20, 2011, 05:56:35 PM
I just spoke to Randy ( saddle up gave me a call about the break down) He said the pulley (engine) was toast and the bolt head was rounded off. He needs a pulley so I put him in touch with the Yoda' as he might have the one needed.
Good deal Van.
I saw where Yoda had posted he was in Scotsdale so I figured he might be gone for the holidays.
Glad your on top of it!
BTW please PM me your # either here or on FB so I'll have access to call you when I have a Lost Wages question or concern.
(not sure if you know it or not but I get calls from all over asking "hey I got this going on, what do I do, or who do I call in BFE.....)
It's always nice to have a data base to confer with when I'm at a loss as to who, where & what in a certain area.
;D BK ;D
How about run the generator for your DC and bypass the no gen relay so the heat will work, and carry on?
Enjoy the rest of the trip and fix it at your leisure when you get home?
There are a number of simple ways to bypass the relay, it all depends which bit of changed procedure you want to follow.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
BW Capital Idea, that can get them to where the replacement pulley can be obtained reasonably instead of the hyway robbery price ;)
Bk will do, been so dang busy today, usually my spidey senses start tingling when a bus breaks down in the area LOL! ;D
Randy give me a ring if I can be of further assist. ;)
If you can make it to Phoenix, I can fix you up.
I spoke with Randy he needs the lower drive assembly on the back of a 8v71 like a the MCI used up till and used on some MCI 8 with a 6 or 7 inch pulley the whole assembly would be a easier fix for him.
I have several of the top mount both front and rear but not the lower,he has Don's cell number like Allstate he is in good hands now lol
good luck
Good news is that assembly bolts on to the right hand cam drive position so the back of the engine doesn't have to be disassembled. It uses the exact same drive plate and splined adaptor as the compressor drive does. The pulley is a four belt, and is held on to the shaft with a taper collar that engages the key on the shaft and is clamped tight by the nut. I lost the pulley on the alternator side on my last long trip and we ran close to a thousand miles on the batteries, we just stopped and charged them at night once. If you think about it, after the engine is running you don't need electricity except for lights and fans, so if you don't need to run those you can run about forever with no alternator.
Good luck!
Thank you for all of your replies. I looked thru the schematic and I think I figured out how to bypass the relay.
Kids had a great time I in universal studios. Heading to San Diego. Can someone please pm me dons phone number and address. The one I have Is not working.
Thanks again everyone
This is the one I use Randy 1-661-391-4520
good luck
Randy you can get the drive from (Pedco) Iornman in Santa Fe Springs about 100 miles from you 1-562-944-3199 if you don't reach Don he should be around the shop he was working on TomC's bus last week
good luck
Hi again,
I just pulled in to Santa Fe and will be at the shop in the morning to talk with Pedco to pick up some parts. Maybe I will just weld the old pully onto the shaft for now...
The pulley fits onto the shaft with a tapered sleeve. If the sleeve is missing, the fit on the shaft will be very loose - the hole in the pulley itself is tapered and at the large end is about a half inch larger than the shaft. If the sleeve isn't there, that would look like a totally toasted pulley when in fact it may not be that bad. I think the pulley is cast iron, I don't think it will weld very well.
Brian
Randy, glad that it sounds like you found a fix. I would give you mine but i think that i might need it. ;D
If Sante Fe Springs is a bust John Leslie gave a recommendation, "Vance Butler. Mechanics mechanic! Acres of engines and transmissions. 619-672-7009" in a suburb of San Diego.
I don't know anything other than what he posted in the quotes above.
Mike
Hi Bevans... The sleeve info is well received, It now makes a little more sense that the fit could possibly be that far off. Again, your correct, the pully is cast Iron. I am heading over to the parts guy and if successfull, will drop the kids off at the Santa Fe pool for a few hours.
by the way, the people in Santa Fe are super friendly - the employees at Starbucks, the security guards and curious random people - it has been a fun place to hang out.
Bob is the foreman at Ironman. Great little shop, clean, organized and busy. Anyway I was able to get the assembly and the gasket but no pully. I am going to talk to Vance and hopefully the pully is close at hand.
PS. Bob must have travelled with a bus full of kids as he gave the part no charge :) I am telling you, I love Santa Fe Springs!!!
Quote from: viento1 on December 22, 2011, 11:33:50 AM(snip) I was able to get the assembly and the gasket but no pully. I am going to talk to Vance and hopefully the pully is close at hand.
Here's hoping that you get "final fix" soon, easy and (reasonably) cheap!
BH, NC USA
The pully is a little more difficult to get than I thought. I have Vance and Don looking for it but no luck at this point :(
I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't a MCI specific part, you could try calling MCI to see if they have one. When I had the problem with my alternator pulley, they had one - they just didn't have the inner splined hub, which was what I needed.
The MCI part numbers are 7F-3-50 for the engine pulley and 7B-3-263 for the tapered sleeve. What I would do, actually, since I have a machine shop handy, is see if I could fix the pulley you have. I'm thinking clean up the bore and make a new tapered sleeve or similar.
Brian
So I take it the alternator drive pulley is kind of a maintenance item, something you should put a wrench on occasionally?
Randy, did you try checking with Luke to see if he has one?
There are 37 different pulleys for that drive get the numbers off the pulley if it starts with 51 it will be a DD pulley and a DD dealer can get one last one I bought from WW Williams was a 175 bucks
good luck
I could not quite make out the number on the pully but it is obvious now that it is the same number as what Bevans had mentioned. It is also MCI specific as that is why the engines in Bob's yard did not fit.
I will call Luke today.
Randy, I think I found a pully for you at caylor supply in Kansas, Call Sam at 758-878-3405. I tryed to call your cell but could not get through.
Hope this helps
Don
CCTS
Bakersfield
Quote from: Don Fairchild on December 23, 2011, 08:59:45 AM
Randy, I think I found a pully for you at caylor supply in Kansas, Call Sam at 758-878-3405. I tryed to call your cell but could not get through.
Hope this helps
Don
CCTS
Bakersfield
Mr. Fairchild good to see you around. And your absolutely right id it's MCI specific it's most likely that Sam would have it if anyone would.
BTW I've tried calling you several times. Your a hard man to get a hold of.
;D BK ;D
I was just reading this thread. I'll betcha that Sam would have it. He has just about everything. He will give you a good price, right of the bat also.
John
I spoke with Bill at WW Williams the pulley is a DD part he cannot find one in the DD system it has been obsolete for 15 years from a dealer
good luck
I was over to B&B Coach today and Gary had this in the shop. Any parts on this 871 that Randy might be able to use?
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi457.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq292%2Fcwvanhagen%2F871engine.jpg&hash=71f01b3a8ad1a7018f3dc0c308138d732564f474)
Van, that 8v71 is from a Eagle I see the mitre box drive MCI gets off the wall on the rear nothing there that would help Randy
If Sam does not have one Lied (717-776-7725) may hay one. There is one in my shop in Pa. but I will not be there till next fall. Check with Luke?
Are we looking 4 scheve pully on the engine that drives the big alt.??? If so recheck the bearing on that shaft, mine is a little loose.
Call me when (if) you get to san diego and havn't figured it out... i can probably figure out something here that will work for you- I'm real good at
making things work, and I have a very complete shop at my disposal...
I sent my phone number to you via email....
Randy came over on Christmas, and we seem to have the situation under control. The biggest obstacle was trying to figure out how the pulley attaches; it's a mind-game because too much of his old part is destroyed.
My take is that it's a tapered collar that goes between the (tapered?)pulley and the shaft- we have re-machined his pulley with a new taper and are building a new collar from scratch... but my question is, how does it normally get squeezed to hold on. I've reinvented a sheave-style flange with three cap screws that works like QD pulleys but I have this notion that the whole thing is normally squeezed together by a big fat large diameter washer that would go between the shaft-nut and the pulley- tightening the nut squeezes the pulley down over the collar and everything gets tight... am I correct? Can anyone take me a photo? It probably doesn't matter at this point because what we're building will work fine. But I'm always curious what the "real" way was.
It is a tapered sleeve that fits inside the tapered hole in the pulley, and over the straight shaft and key in the keyway of the shaft. There is a slot in the sleeve that fits over the key in the keyway of the shaft. At the skinny end ( the inner end) of the tapered hole, the key also engages the pulley itself, the key is half in the tapered spacer and half in the pulley. If you open up the hole too much you will lose the engagement of the key in the pulley, which is important. If you need to you could make a taller key, but that is not good engineering.
The tapered spacer is proud of the pulley on the outside where the nut bears on it, and there is no washer. As the nut is tightened, the spacer is forced into the pulley, and tightens down with the wedging action onto the shaft and grabs the key very tightly, as it is wedged tight by the nut. I didn't look to see if the stock setup has the tapered collar still proud of the pulley when fully torqued or not, sorry. I also did not notice if the tapered spacer is hardened steel or mild steel. I think it would work better if the nut bore fully on the spacer, that will wedge things together very tightly, and obviously the tapered spacer should not bottom out on the shoulder that the pulley rides against. I believe the torque spec on the nut is 125 ft lbs.
I believe the whole mess actually rides against a straight sleeve that is over the shaft and which the oil seal rides against, but again I can't quite remember the detail...
Hope this helps.
Thanks, that all makes great sense. His tapered sleeve was totally destroyed to the point it no longer existed, and the pulley's taper was damaged (ground away) just to the edge of where the key slot was, so we're machining out a new, much larger sleeve part, creating a new larger taper in the pulley, and I'll have to broach a new keyslot in it. Finally, I'll make two separate keys on opposing sides of the sleeve- one for the shaft, one for the pulley.
Cheers
gary
Just remember that it's the pulley that has to bear on the inner seal spacer, not the tapered spacer. So don't make the new tapered hole too big so that the pulley can't bear on the seal spacer. What a fuss! You might even think about making a new center hub and bolting the pulley outer rim to it.
On the MCI yahoo group someone was saying that some MC-8's came with that pulley as well as the MC-5's.
Brian
As a thought to the cause of all this (besides the nut coming loose) you might want to check the outlet air pressure of the regulator to the belt tightener. If the reg. failed with a hole in the dia. or a broken spring on top of the diaphragm, you could see full line pressure (120psi) to the tightener. If I remember correct the regulator on mine was set at 26psi. This excess pressure might have been put too much side load on the pulley causing it to work loose. If you had too much side load the bearing on the inside of auxillary drive assem. could be suspect. If the pulley is off ,it is only 5 more bolt to check the bearing before you put it all back together.
Randy, you are certainly in good hands. Gary is extraordinary talented!!
I hope you have had a chance to enjoy his magical place and some of his fabulous creations.
Jim