Hind sight is always 20/20 so share what you see now.
If you were a guy in your 30's , debt free including your house / business / bus. What would you have invested in / or done a bit different to help ya retire sooner or set ya up with a thicker wallet come retirement age.
Only options I see right now are:
The stock market ( I personally don't trust people holding my money and don't believe it will be a sure bet when I'm of age to pull it out)
Build a real estate portfolio ( Not really excited about baby sitting people and thier messy life styles)
Stash it in a cookie jar and let inflation win the race.
Thxs
Bill in KS
From personal experience. DO NOT BUY A RESTAURANT OR BAR.
From others experience. Nursing homes and funeral homes. They retired very well
Low income, government subsidized two bedroom housing. Not apartments or condos. Not three
or more bedrooms. Not in bad neighborhoods. They did very well also.
What we didn't do???? Microsoft and Block Buster in 1988, the restaurant seemed like a better idea.
Don and Cary
To be Thirty and debt free than we want to know what you are doing :)
How about Private firms that have NEVER had a loss, proven track record, bla bla bla. Stock market is all retail, real estate is on sale if you have time and patience. Gold? well if you are hardcore and feel a new world currency backed by gold is the only global solution to this crisis - imagine the money
Lets add to this,
To all the success stories who have lived through previous market disasters. Where do you see opportunity in todays market?
Fun story... there was this old dude, A.W. Coggeshal, who ran a used plumbing store here in San Diego. He was a greasy old fart and sat in his dirty little used toilet shop all day waiting for some sucker (like me) who needed a 1905 vintage part probably only worth $5, so he could con ya out of $25 for it because he had it and knew you needed it or you wouldn't be there in the first place. It was clearly just a game for him but I figured it was because he was old, cantankerous and probably lonely, sitting in his messy little shop all day doing mostly nothing. And I clearly didn't like him at all.
One day I was there and I thought it funny that a city-slick lawyer-looking guy with a briefcase was walking out of the place mumbling something like "yes Mr. Coggeshal, we have an appointment for next Tuesday at 9am sharp, I'll be there right on time"... it struck me a little funny because the slick guy definitely had A.W. on some kind of pedestal, but I didn't know what, and truthfully it didn't matter. But it went into the archives of my brain for some strange reason, as I paid A.W too much for the part I needed.
Fast forward about 15 years or so, I'm sitting in a Ben 'n Jerrys waiting to get some ice cream, and I see a copy of "the reader" which is a local rag about local people and also has good classified ads. The reader has this way of picking some subject and then writing 10-15 pages on it... and this week it was about the recent death of 84 year old A.W. Coggeshal. I remembered the name and wondered why the reader would choose to spend it's spread on this old fart, so I read on...
Turns out young A.W. leased some land during world war 2 that was right next to Convair aircraft (a giant maker of war planes in the day), and then rented that land to convair workers to park their cars for 50c a week or something like that. He saved up the rental money and eventually bought the land, which is where his plumbing shop ended up being located. Apparently he kept doing stuff like this until one day he found himself worth perhaps as much as 50 million dollars, owning, amongst others, a few entire city blocks right in the heart of Downtown San Diego!
But he was basically a guy that didn't let his bucks get to his head, and enjoyed the plumbing shop life more than the fast-rich lane.
When he died, he left well more than half his fortune to the local rowing clubs, charities for kids, The San Diego Community Foundation, and worthy institutions of the like. He was actually quite the benefactor of many, many cool non-profit organizations. Had I not read that story I'd have never known, and until that moment I'd held A.W. as one of the most unlikable people I'd ever met. Funny that he was actually one of the kindest, biggest hearted people you would ever run across... you'd never know it from meeting him at his shop!!
The point of all this: What was the secret to his riches?
He was quoted in that article as saying simply:
"Buy in the path of progress, the rest will take care of itself"
I took it to heart, and well, it worked great for me... pretty simple... and if I were to give you any advice Bill, that would be it...
We had a neighbor that lived in a wreck of a house, drove an old Honda car till it fell apart in his driveway, never got another car, dressed in rags, didn't like people much, and one year complained that he had to pay $ 2 million in income taxes. When he died he left $ 21 million to a think tank back east somewhere. If he had spent some money on heat and better food and health care, he might have lived a lot longer. He made most of his money in the stock market but i heard that he freelanced and wrote software for Mr. Gates. :) I know more people that have made more money in the stock market than in real estate. The secret is to buy your stocks and hang onto them, don't sell when the market drops, just wait it out.. ;D
Long term investment real estate more tax write-offs short term stock market but you need to be careful in that one know what you are doing the bad thing now with the capital gain tax so low you never know where that is headed. I watch that very close if they even talk about raising capital gains I'll dump every stock I own.
Then you have the dirty word here on the board fuel futures that has been real good for us in the past year and a half
good luck invest wisely
I am blessed with some kind of "reverse Midas touch"'. Everything I touch turns into rust, dust or ashes. So if you have an enemy send me a little money, I will either buy stock or enter partnership with him/her and in a short time you will see the rotten body being paraded around. Guaranteed to work 100%.
The stock market is a dangerous place for the innocent. It is for the big guys, not us little ones - they just take our money!
If you do get into the market never invest more than half your money and only what you can afford to loose.
Real estate is good if you can afford to let it ride for years. DO NOT get into rental property unless you hire a manager!!
A guaranteed interest rate annuity is good for younger people, worthless for us old guys.
Unless you are willing to spend full time at it you need to invest with a money management company like UBS. Same rules as the market, only what you are willing to lose and half of your total.
Don't be afraid of the market just careful I bought Ford for 2 dollars (everyone said I was nuts) it went to 16 a share I sold at 15 then bought back when it dipped it's back to around 10 dollars now invest wisely and don't panic good stocks will bounce back in time it is kinda fun once you get the hang of it lol
good luck
Ride the wave, whatever wave you can find, and know that market intimately. Buy low, sell high. Only buy when prices are rising. Seems to work with just about everything from metals to real estate to stocks. Do it backwards and you'll be broke so fast you'll wonder what happened.
Quote from: viento1 on November 25, 2011, 12:57:19 PM
To be Thirty and debt free than we want to know what you are doing :)
How about Private firms that have NEVER had a loss, proven track record, bla bla bla. Stock market is all retail, real estate is on sale if you have time and patience. Gold? well if you are hardcore and feel a new world currency backed by gold is the only global solution to this crisis - imagine the money
Lets add to this,
To all the success stories who have lived through previous market disasters. Where do you see opportunity in todays market?
If you were the type who responded to economic crisis in panic mode as many are today, you might have bought gold in 1980 at $615.00. You would not have seen that price again until 2007.
There are people buying gold today at $1680.00 and I do believe that they will lose big time if kept as a long term investment.
Other than that, I can't help you. I have lost in the stock market and in real estate over the past ten years or so.
There are lots of get rich stories but the fact is that the stock market is no place for the little guy, I can't stress that enough.
I was in it for 30 years and, except for the fun, I could have done as well with my money in a savings account - I'm a slow learner!!
I had lots of advice I would gladly share with anyone that would listen, and then 2008 came along and the rest is history....
Buy real estate, please. >:(
Quote from: PP on November 27, 2011, 07:08:41 PM
I had lots of advice I would gladly share with anyone that would listen, and then 2008 came along and the rest is history....
Oh man does that ring true. Years back I thought everyone should own a house, or land, I used to preach it. Today I could not in good conscience suggest anyone buy a house unless they want to be stuck in it. Our son and daughter in law are already over $50K upside down, and the county just dropped their appraised value another $29K. They are stuck. And to tell the truth, I think it will drop much more.
Now I'm thinking completely different. Converting assets to cash, not buying luxuries or things we don't need, I'm in survival mode. I think we would be very wise to learn everything the folks who survived the Great Depression knew and put it into practice praying we never need it.
If you want to lose money, buy a bus spent thousands of hours and thousands of dollars and then try to sell it. The stock market would be a better investment.
Bill in Kansas,
I replied earlier in a rather flippant manner, but after sleeping on your question overnight, I began to wonder.....Who in their right mind would ask a bunch of 'nuts' that own buses financial advice? We own buses for crying out loud, isn't it obvious that we have no financial sense? ;D ;D
Seriously though, good luck in whatever you decide to invest in. Like Clifford said about Ford stock, right after the bottom hit in the stock market, you couldn't make a bad investment, even doggie doo was rising daily. Companies with spread sheets that looked more pathetic than my grandkids diapers after corn on the cob were doubling and quadrupling in value. There wasn't any logic to it, but it happened none the less. Since then, some of those companies have been devalued to what they're really worth and even more people lost their money. The best advice I've ever recieved besides buy low and sell high is to invest in what you believe in. If you love a companies way of doing business or their products, then other people probably do to. I think I'll change my handle to 'Envious in Oregon'. ;D
Will
Quote from: PP on November 28, 2011, 10:32:55 AM
Bill in Kansas,
The best advice I've ever recieved besides buy low and sell high is to invest in what you believe in. If you love a companies way of doing business or their products, then other people probably do to.
We started our own company selling products and services. Invest in yourself. We were able to keep my wife home working and watching our son, eventually trained him also.
We invested in some companies i believed in. Someone raided it and the stock tanked, that happened twice. i'm still waiting to make a killing on the MS stock i bought before 2000.
As someone said, the stock market, commodities, are all about playing the game, not investing in a researched company.
If you want to invest in stocks, buy a share in a good local company, be keep an eye on what they do so they don't become obsolete. Best thing is good services that you can't get remotely from China or India, like a custom machinist or mechanic doing specialty work. Find a niche.
Buy a good house, big as you need, in a place that has water close or good well, just in case. Well insulated. Don't look at the house as something you can turn into profit, look at it as less expensive than renting. if you expect to get moved soon, then rent. if you can at least get your money back on the house, buy. We lived free in every house we ever had, just because we got enough to at least get our money back, tax write offs, etc.
just don't buy a 5 bedroom mansion as an investment. that no longer works.
one more thing i almost forgot, as i'm watching another stupid credit card commercial. Don't ever have to pay a credit card fee. PAY IT OFF EACH MONTH. If you can't afford to pay it off each month, save the money up first before you buy.
If you have to worry what the credit card percents are, you shouldn't be using it.
30, own the house, own the toys, debt free. I didn't get there till I was 45, but I was there none-the-less, and far sooner than I had a right to be. Made my luck by being in the Internet business at the right time. I do have advice, serious advice, that I will share, since you asked ;)
Much depends on your health, your personal situation, your income, the stability of your personal situation, your goals in life, your goals in retirement, your genetics. If you are like me, good basic health, stable relationship, good income that is stable as it can be these days, I would do this:
Accumulate wealth. Put 10% to 20% of your pre-tax income into long term investments. I personally favor a 50/50 mix of what I call tier 2 bonds (government bonds, basically, but not US bonds, the yield is too low) and target a yield of around 3.5%. That gets you very safe bonds. I favor dividend paying equities that pay in the 5% range, and are "blue chip" companies. Your thoughts and what you can invest in happily may be different from mine. but that is what I advise.
Establish a "go to hell" fund. That's the money that sits in a readily available stash so that no matter what happens, you have three to six months of fully covered living expenses ready to use at any time.
Establish a "fix the stuff I bought" fund, if your cashflow won't support the odd $10K or $20K unexpected bill. Roofs have to be replaced, the bus engine can explode, you may need to buy a new car or you may need to drop 30 large on a new septic system so you can keep doing number two's in the privacy of your own bath room. All this happened to me in the past two years.
Enjoy yourself. Do what makes you happy. I personally spent about 20% of my income racing cars, building cars, traveling all over the place meeting people and having a good time - racing cars! I bought a bus to use when I went to race cars!
Build a plan and execute the plan. Doesn't have to be a fancy plan, but you need to know where you are going so you know when you get there. My plan is simple - accumulate a net worth of over $750K by the time I am 55 years old so I can retire, fix my lifestyle and have a chance of living the life I want to lead, as opposed to the life I am forced to live to do the work I do. I'm 54 now, so I'll know if I made it soon... ;D.
Brian
You have gotten a lot of good advice so far. What little bit I might add is to follow a lot of markets weather they are real estate, scrap metal, or vintage guitars. You can make money on a wide range of things. I have spent over 20 years messing with rental property and feel like it has done me good, but a lot of it can vary depending on where you live, and if you like real estate, etc. A friend of mine who went to Harvard Law School And a business school of which I cannot remember the name told me that in business school he learned to "buy low and sell high". In law school he learned to "not get caught".
I believe that our country and world are changing, and the advice that was right 30 years ago, no longer applies. As a country, we face unprecedented debt, and a disappearing manufacturing sector. Baby boomers are reaching retirement age while medical costs skyrocket and the social security program is doomed to tank.
For the upcoming decades, I believe the key to financial success lies in the ability to HIDE your wealth. Simply put, our government is writing checks they can't cash, and they will most certainly continue to raise existing taxes while finding creative new ways to tax.
Thirty years ago, a person in your shoes might focus on an investment's rate of return and only treat the tax implications as secondary. In the coming years, that will flip-flop. How wealthy you APPEAR on paper will have far reaching affects on your taxes and a multitude of government programs.
For example, let's say you are blessed with having two children. Being a responsible person, you scrimped and saved to put away $100K for their education. Meanwhile, the folks across the street saved $2K for their kids education, choosing instead to buy every new electronic device that hit the market. When it comes time to fill out the college financial aid paperwork, your neighbors have the upper hand, unless you have been able to hide your wealth in a way that does not show up on their forms.
So how do your hide wealth? That's the tricky part. Gold or investment grade rare coins? Create a corporation and put your assets under that name? Off shore accounts? Creative real estate investments? Intellectual property? Art? Who knows?
If I was younger and exploring more of this, maybe I could tell you what is best.
IRA in mutual funds spread the risk.
Thanks for all of the responses.
Making money is one thing.
Making that money go to work for you is a bit different.
Bill in KS