I'd like to revisit this old topic, and get some current advice, prompted somewhat by Bruisers' thread on his experience with a flat tire. I spent a lot of time recently lying on my back inside the spare tire compartment of my MCI while installing my new throttle cable (which was far more of an adventure and disaster in the making than I wrote about). This gave me ample opportunity to ponder the nice size and availability of the space, the weight of the spare tire and wheel, the fact that I need to replace both because they are too wore out to actually use, and how bloody hard it is to get the spare in and out of that compartment in the first place.
I use 12R=22.5 Firestone FS-560 Plus tires. I figure the odds of getting one on the road when I need one is functionally zero. I figure the odds of an emergency tire truck guy having a usable or even new 12R=22.5 to install for me on the side of the road is a little better, but probably not approaching 10%. So I am well inclined to carry a spare tire. But I need to replace the wheel I have anyway (the taper on the lug holes are all rusted beyond safe use) so I am thinking I will buy a new FS-560, toss it in the compartment un-mounted and get the tire guy to install it (I figure the odds of being able to find an emergency tire guy are a lot better than 10%, maybe 90%).
What is the advice? No tire, unmounted tire, or fully usable spare? I do carry tools to change a mounted tire if I have to.
Thanks, Brian
Quote from: bevans6 on November 08, 2011, 06:00:23 AM
....and how bloody hard it is to get the spare in and out of that compartment in the first place.
Just to comment on that aspect; my spare wheel doesn't have a compartment as such - it's just held up to the underside of the bus in the same way that spare wheels often are on cars. The wheel is raised up and lowered to the ground by a winch mounted on the underside of the bus, with the winch being turned using the same wrench that removes the lug nuts. Works well without needing much effort, and is a simple system which could probably be retro-fitted to any bus.
Jeremy
after this past weekend I will be getting myself tire spoons, cheater air tank and a impact gun.. I already have a compressor, correct socket, jack, etc..
as for spares my plan now is to get a newer tire on my spare under front of bus.. when we pulled it out we found out that it was from 1993 and I did not want to run that unless all else fails.. reason I had 2 other spares was when I bought the bus I kept the tire off the front of bus to use as spares.. I am very glad I did now..
but I am planning to replace all tires now and get 1 if not 2 extra.. I have only owned bus for 3.5 months and been on 5 trips.. so I know I will continue to use it and would rather not have tires fails every trip :)
Quote from: bevans6 on November 08, 2011, 06:00:23 AM(snip) I use 12R=22.5 Firestone FS-560 Plus tires. I figure the odds of getting one on the road when I need one is functionally zero. (snip) What is the advice? No tire, unmounted tire, or fully usable spare? I do carry tools to change a mounted tire if I have to.
Brian, I think that that's a big part of your question answered right there. I have little road experience in a bus but it seems to me that CoachNet/Good Sam/AAAPlusRV/NationwideRV is generally able to get a roadside service/tire guy to you. I can't imagine but that if you had a reasonably good spare tire with you, it could get mounted and have you on your way pretty quickly. Also, I'm thinking that if you have a reasonably helpful tire place at home, you can wait until "just the right take off" comes in and get yourself a good deal on useful tire; on the other hand, if you're on the side of the road and you have to buy a tire off the service truck, you're probably going to pay an eye-watering premium price.
Quote from: Jeremy on November 08, 2011, 06:20:26 AMJust to comment on that aspect; my spare wheel doesn't have a compartment as such - it's just held up to the underside of the bus in the same way that spare wheels often are on cars. The wheel is raised up and lowered to the ground by a winch mounted on the underside of the bus, with the winch being turned using the same wrench that removes the lug nuts. Works well without needing much effort, and is a simple system which could probably be retro-fitted to any bus. Jeremy
And here's where we come to one of the drawbacks of having a "low-floor" transit bus. I'm pretty sure that there's no place on or under my bus that would accommodate a spare. I'm going to have a good look when I get closer to long trips but I'm pretty sure that my options will be inside the bus (under the bed, maybe), on the front bumper like a '60's VW-micro bus (uuggh), or maybe in a special compartment at the rear of the upper deck with a portable winch to lift it up and take it down if needed. But I like the idea of carrying a spare -- I just don't know how/where I can fit it on my bus.
But unless someone has a very difficult situation that means it's just not practical, I think that we should all carry a spare tire. Whether it's worth the cost, weight, expense etc. to carry a fully mounted spare, I'll leave to the advice of the highly experienced.
I ran 12r x 22.5 for years on my Eagle and MCI I never carried a spare I lost one in McCall Id from road debris the tire dealer in a small town in Id had 4 in stock fwiw buy and keep good tires on the bus you don't need a spare IMO
good luck
For the first few years that we had the bus we didn't have a spare, the PO used the space to bring back booze from Mexico. ;D Then one winter i got a tire from a neighbor that had had a flat and had to buy a tire that did not match the ones that he was running. Carried that for a year or two and finally bought a wheel and had it mounted when i replaced all of my other wheels. Also have the blocks, jacks, air gun, and torque multiplier so i can change a tire if i want to and not have to wait for road service. Not to say that i would not use my road service under certain conditions, but there are times when we are a long ways from any town big enough that would have somebody that could come out. Rather than sit for 3-4 hours or more, i would rather do it myself.
Quote from: Ed Hackenbruch on November 08, 2011, 06:58:57 AM(snip) Rather than sit for 3-4 hours or more, i would rather do it myself.
If you can be prepared to do that (practically), that sounds to me like a good place to be.
I understand your concern about finding a spare on the road Brian but obviously eventually you can find a replacement somewhere, its just a matter of time. People seem to think that getting a tire immediately is a big issue with a bus. Its not like your pickup where you can't proceed until you get something mounted. There's only two tires on the bus that are absolutely mission critical.
We probably put as many miles on as anybody on this board and I have never felt any need to carry a spare. Like Clifford says, we run really good tires all around. The best tires on the frenchy-bus are always the two under my @$# when we're travelling. I rotate the steer tires out every 3 or 4 years and move them to the tags. My drives are about 4 years old now. If we ever have a flat on a steer tire we can air lift the tags and pull a tire to use. A flat in any other position will let us keep on going, somewhat slower likely but moving nevertheless. If we end up sitting outside a tire shop for a couple days while a tire arrives its no big deal, we're home anyway.
Don't have a spare tire. Very few truckers carry spares also-I didn't and in 1.3 million miles of driving, never had a front tire blow out. Had dualers blow out, but then you can drive to the next truck stop. On a tag axle, you could release the pressure on the air suspension and then jack up the bad tire off the road to get to the tire shop. On some single tired 3 axle trailers, I've seen small cable hoists (think boat trailer cable winch) under the wheel well to pull the axle up. Or-for simplicity just install a heavy duty eye and use a chain with binder to hold it up. Better then carrying all that tire repair equipment with you.
The single best thing you can do to prevent a blow out again is to run quality tires, and have a wireless tire pressure monitoring system. Low air pressure is the number one killer of tires. Good Luck, TomC.
Well as most of you use your buses quite differently than I do, my answer is different.
When hauling passengers it is absolutely essential that we get them rolling again as quick as possible!
We keep almost new tires on the steers @ all times when we need tag tires or they get worn down 1/2 way they come off the steers and either go on the tags or in the shed until we have 4 and then they go on a drive axle.
Now as far as finding 12R's on the road many tire places still stock them in or near larger cities. Rural areas most of the time they will have a 315\80R-22.5 in stock and will try to tell you they are the same.
But as Clifford & Bob said you can get one, and usually in reasonable time. (depends on your situation as to how much $ that time is worth.)
Now as far as finding a service truck to come install the tire goes. I have never had a problem finding one.
Also you'd be surprised @ how fast they will show up if you tell them on the phone if they get out there fast enough there is a $100 cash tip for them. (I've even played dirty and called several & told them all "Look I've called several others and who ever gets here first gets the work & THE $100 BILL!" Man you should see how fast you go to the front of the list!)
And one last thing as Bob points out most times a tire can be robbed from the drives or tags to get ya back rolling. But not all buses can raise the tags. (at not easily)
And if a tire blows it can take out airlines, air bags, or something else that will require attn. before you can roll on.
;D BK ;D
My AC units where mounted in the spare tire compartment living in AZ cooling was more important than a spare tire lol fwiw the 24.5 tire is getting hard to find now
Thoughts on using one of the drive tires up front and running a single rear on a bus with no tag.
Brian -
Since the spare resides inside out of the sunlight, the suggestion for a similar-sized take off from an 18-wheeler is a good one. Just let your friendly local truck tire shop know you're looking for a good 22.5 take-off that can be used as a spare. Even if it's an 11R22.5, it would work as a spare. That's what they are for - temporary use until you can get the main wheel taken care of.
Two additional thoughts regarding spare tire/wheel being carried that have not been mentioned thus far:
1) You've got a 35 foot coach with no tag axle. The vehicle dynamics are different than the tag axle folk, primarily regarding weight distribution. Adding a spare wheel & tire aids by increasing the load on the steering axle, often improving the coach's tracking on the super slab.
2) A minor role, but, (God forbid) if you were to be involved in a collision, the potential is there for the spare wheel & tire to improve the "crush zone " - especially if the other vehicle is an automobile.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Quote from: RJ on November 08, 2011, 09:41:49 AM
1) You've got a 35 foot coach with no tag axle. The vehicle dynamics are different than the tag axle folk, primarily regarding weight distribution. Adding a spare wheel & tire aids by increasing the load on the steering axle, often improving the coach's tracking on the super slab.
2) A minor role, but, (God forbid) if you were to be involved in a collision, the potential is there for the spare wheel & tire to improve the "crush zone " - especially if the other vehicle is an automobile.
I have a 40-ft 2-axle bus with only 263" wheelbase, and I noticed a big improvement when I made a mount for my spare 12R22.5 under the nose. It definitely rides better with the extra weight there, plus I don't waste precious bellybin space for it. It's kept in place by four gr.8 1" studs, and I use a worm-drive hand winch to raise and lower it. I also made a folding wheeled dolly to easily move it when it's on the ground, and if I'm feeling lazy I can take the crank handle off the winch and use my cordless drill instead - a power-operated spare wheel mount!
John
thank you all for excellent comments. I appreciate the advice and the anecdotes. It comes down to risk analysis, the lack of ability to get great support on the 1,000 Km I do in rural Canada on my trip to Nova Scotia, and how extremely upset my wife would be if we ever get a flat and I don't have a spare to put on...
I will probably keep carrying a spare. Lowest risk...
Brian
I have a spare for the Wanderlodge I just bought, Unmounted, since there is no place underneath to put it (front engine wanderlodge) it is standing in the bedroom next to the bed
I did not want to put it on the roof (has the railings up there) without some sort of cover for it to protect it from the sun, going to have to make something so I can get it out of the bedroom
Quote from: bevans6 on November 08, 2011, 11:25:05 AM(snip) It comes down to risk analysis, ... and how extremely upset my wife would be if we ever get a flat and I don't have a spare to put on... I will probably keep carrying a spare. Lowest risk... Brian
I make a number of decision heavily weighted towards what keeps The Management happy. Best decisions that I make.
Quote from: RJ on November 08, 2011, 09:41:49 AM
Brian -
Two additional thoughts regarding spare tire/wheel being carried that have not been mentioned thus far:
1) You've got a 35 foot coach with no tag axle. The vehicle dynamics are different than the tag axle folk, primarily regarding weight distribution. Adding a spare wheel & tire aids by increasing the load on the steering axle, often improving the coach's tracking on the super slab.
2) A minor role, but, (God forbid) if you were to be involved in a collision, the potential is there for the spare wheel & tire to improve the "crush zone " - especially if the other vehicle is an automobile.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
These two reasons alone should be enough to make you want to carry a spare.
Here are a few more that I can imagine. How about being deep in a national park somewhere with no cell phone service and having a flat and no spare? I have even sections on major interstates on our recent run up to Wisconsin without cell phone service.
Also, here in Mexico there is no such thing as roadside tire service. And if you are stopped for vehicle inspection, NOT carrying a mounted functional spare gets you a ticket.
Quote from: Kubla on November 08, 2011, 11:47:28 AM
I have a spare for the Wanderlodge I just bought, Unmounted, since there is no place underneath to put it (front engine wanderlodge) it is standing in the bedroom next to the bed
If your frame rails extend all the way to the back bumper, it will be easy to make a mount similar to mine. Offsetting your front engine's weight will also help. Mine cost me much less than $100 to make, and it works great.
Or keep the wheel inside, and sleep on the roof.
John
Blew right outside dual 50 miles from home. Spare was crud, old Michelin it blew out sidewall when we aired it up. Ran home with the tire hanging flat on the wheel without any problems, remaining tire never got hot. Probably by far the best argument for 12R tires, is having a tire that can carry enough weight as a single to limp a ways without causing trouble.
As enticing as all that space is up front to do something else with, I would kick myself if I was out in the boonies and had no spare. Don't leave home without it. Actually, I thought you could be ticketed for not having a spare??
but you did't use your spare ???
Do you all have the proper jack and tools to remove a wheel? I do have a spare tire, but I don't have any tools to change a wheel.
I carry the tools and I've changed them myself. I just don't carry a spare.
I have stopped carrying a spare in the belief that I can limp along a while with a drive missing. We do have a tire pressure monitor. I would then ask, if it is one of the drives that goes, should it be removed before proceeding?
A tag axle coach has two spares there for the taking.
Easy choice.
A two axle coach, the decision can't be as boldly made.
As for running a flat, unless you are going to keep it down to slow city speeds, and a distance measured in minutes, not hours, a flat tire should be removed, so it doesn't heat up and shred, becoming a road hazard to others, or damaging your own coach when it comes apart.
Be sure to put the air pressure up to the max rating on the sidewall, if you choose to run a dual tire as a single, to get the best performance out of it. And don't be running full highway speed with it...
My parts coach is sitting on singles on the drives, tires don't look that bad.
As for carrying a spare... my bias is to be prepared to take care of myself.
A mounted spare, stored somewhere on the coach, and the jacks/cribbing/tools to change it, if I decide to be independent, and I don't get soaked for a premium priced roadside replacement, if I decide to use the road service.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: viento1 on November 08, 2011, 01:56:01 PM
but you did't use your spare ???
You must have missed the part about the spare with the fancy Michelin blowing out the sidewall, hence no spare.
I would define a spare as something other than an old tire on a rim that cannot hold air. Either way, you make a compelling case not to carry a spare as you drove 50 miles sans a wheel. For anyone looking to forgo a spare it would appear that driving short distances at a reasonable speed will get you to a station or somewhere safe or in your case home to a comfortable bed.
Quote from: viento1 on November 09, 2011, 11:03:46 AM
I would define a spare as something other than an old tire on a rim that cannot hold air.
And I would define a Bus conversion as something roadworthy, ready to hit the highway and not look back for 10,000 miles. However, the stuff we most often find and drag home is often neither a Bus conversion we want the way we got it, or truly roadworthy. All I knew is the Bus had a spare that was out of air, and hoped I wouldnt need to play with it on the way home. I did, and it didnt.
I dont have a lot of patience when it comes to standing around. If I have a flat I'll have a spare and will likely change it myself. I like to travel back roads and back country, and out there cell service is often spotty to none. I guess if your sticking to the main interstates thats a different thing.