Hi all,
This has probably been discussed here before and I didn't get all the answers in the archives.
So here goes... What is the length difference between the series 60 and the 8v92? If it is too much longer than the 8v92, is there a shorter transmission than the 740 that I could use?
I would like to just keep the 740 for money reasons and the driveline in my bus is really short as it is, so that is out of the question.
I am kicking around the idea right now, and would like to convert my bus over to the series 60. The bus I'm considering converting is in my sig below.
Thanks for any advise!
Most people with the MCI's convert to a S50 which is about the same length, height and weight as a 8V92. I would imagine the S60 is quite a bit longer.
Brian
The height of a 50 series and a 60 series are the same Brian a 50 series is waste of time to me but people do it,a 60 series should not be a problem with a MCI 6 those things came with a 12V71 lot longer than series 60
good luck
I forgot the MC6 came with the 12V71. When I was deciding what to do with my engine problem, I measured up the S50 and found that it would just fit in my engine bay in the MC-5. Interesting conversations with those who had done the swap into their MC-8's and 9's. They had them turned up to 350 hp and really liked them, cooling was no issue anymore. I think a good S60 would be a nice engine.
Brian
A good CUMMINS would be a "nicer" engine ::)>>>Dan
Quote from: luvrbus on October 29, 2011, 01:28:59 PM
The height of a 50 series and a 60 series are the same Brian a 50 series is waste of time to me but people do it,a 60 series should not be a problem with a MCI 6 those things came with a 12V71 lot longer than series 60
good luck
Thanks for your input on the 60 verses the 50. I'm looking at trying to achieve the 475 to 500hp range. My bus weighed in at 42,000# dry and I tow 8,000# trailer. I live in Alaska and travel back and fourth to Idaho through the Canadian Rockies.
I realize the s60 is a little shorter than the 12v71 that my bus came stock with. The difference is the 12v71 was mated to a manual 4speed. I believe that the 740 auto is longer than the manual. My 8v92 is right up against the back bumper with maybe 3" to spare.
The reason my choice is the S60 is... Many over the road truckers up here that I've talked to say they get the best mpg with it. Do you guys think that's true?
Gary, I put 5400 miles back and forth thru the Rockies this summer and averaged 7.4 mpg with my S60.
A 740 is not a good match for 60 series if you except the mileage Zeroclearance is getting you need the right gearing which will cost more than the engine
good luck
Quote from: Zeroclearance on October 29, 2011, 03:52:33 PM
Gary, I put 5400 miles back and forth thru the Rockies this summer and averaged 7.4 mpg with my S60.
i measured my mileage a couple years ago from Ohio to Florida and back, mostly on I75. 7.2mpg. i realize that's not up and down like the Rockies, but how much money do you expect to get from fuel savings to pay for a S60. i had a guy quote me about $20k for one installed. No way will i save that much in fuel mileage.
so why are you considering this? :D
I installed a 12.7 series 60 in my eagle. I used the Allison 4000 mhp tranny. It is a 6 speed double overdrive with a .74 5th, and .64 6th (may have those backward?). I changed the ratio to a 4:11. What a package!!!! 65 mph 1360 rpm. 70 mph 1450 rpm. Went up a 7% 4 mile grade last week. Shifted from 6 th to 5th. Running 57 at the top. With my two stroke I was 14 mph in 2nd and screaming!! The 4000 series is 7" shorter than the 740 (could be a little off on that too) This is a great combo. I am around 40-41k fully loaded and it drives like a car. I even tried to get my wife to keep a record of all the trucks I passed but she refused!!!LOL
As a last note: This is not a project for the strong mind and weak back. It took me app. 6 months. I figured three!!
Watch it there Eric a 8v92 will dance with 60 series a 8v71 n/a series will do a slow waltz (very slow) my 8v92 was 1580 lbs of torque and I got over 7mpg every day up hill or down hill same as most Eagle guy with series 60 better than Wayne's Cummins he was around 5.5
good luck
Quote from: white-eagle on October 29, 2011, 05:38:33 PM
Quote from: Zeroclearance on October 29, 2011, 03:52:33 PM
Gary, I put 5400 miles back and forth thru the Rockies this summer and averaged 7.4 mpg with my S60.
i measured my mileage a couple years ago from Ohio to Florida and back, mostly on I75. 7.2mpg. i realize that's not up and down like the Rockies, but how much money do you expect to get from fuel savings to pay for a S60. i had a guy quote me about $20k for one installed. No way will i save that much in fuel mileage.
so why are you considering this? :D
There are a several reasons
1. If I can save 2.5 mpg That would save me $1,840 round trip to Idaho and back to Alaska. That is figuring Diesel at and average of $4.60 per gal. That trip is all up and down and my bus gets 5mpg avg on this trip. I plan on doing this trip every year for many years to come. (I have a home at both places)
2. My bus all loaded up with gear and my trailer with SUV weights in at around 55,000#. The last trip back to Alaska, I was climbing the grade up to Bridal Vail Falls near Banff and about 2/3 the way up, I was down to about 15mph and getting worried. This is a two lane road and has a sharp hairpin corner at the bottom, you are lucky if you can round that corner at over 35mph. Besides, it would have been embarrassing if that bicycle would have passed me. LOL
3. My brother has a series 60 in a 1996 Freightliner tractor that he doesn't use any more. He said he would sell it to me for 5,000 and it only has 80k on a complete overhaul. I know it would need a bunch of parts and fabrication to install it into a bus. My brother and I are both mechanics and would do all the work. I have a budget of 15k to do this conversion and that would have to include the transmission if it needs changed.
4. I just turned 41 this year and I plan on keeping this bus for ever. Besides, my wife gave me the OK. ;D ;D ;D
You really need to understand the electronics involved. I have participated in one conversion, mine, and have seen two more. Not a job for the faint of heart. I would suggest an overdrive transmission as in the Allison World trans. You need the overdrive to run at the best engine speed. Then you have to find a way to reprogram the ECM to your wants. And have access to a read/write program to change parameters.
Bill
You are right Clifford the 92 is strong. The heat on a hard climb seems to be a no issue with the 60 though. Parts are becoming an issue for the two stroke engines. I don't think the two strokes can compete with the newer electronic four strokes. The wiring to me was a little scary considering the manuals were about a foot thick!!LOL
Gary, the GREAT fuel milage in the Series 60 in achieved ONLY by mating the right trannsmission and rears.
We have several stick haulers (Hauling furniture) that have Series 60's and several different rears and trannies. Granted we only haul 12,000 to 20,000 pounds. They consistantly get 7 to 8 and even better MPG and they are running 75MPH.
Again, you have to spec it right to get the good MPG.
Jack
I have seen Series 60's installed in MC6's. It's the only bus that makes the Series 60 look small since the engine compartment is so huge. The best setup is the 4000 series or B500 Allison 6spd for overall performance. If you want an automated transmission but not concerned with acceleration, then the Ultra Shift from Eaton in the 10, or 13spd will give you the best fuel mileage. Personally-I LOVE the performance of the Allison. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: luvrbus on October 29, 2011, 06:54:24 PM
Watch it there Eric a 8v92 will dance with 60 series a 8v71 n/a series will do a slow waltz (very slow) my 8v92 was 1580 lbs of torque and I got over 7mpg every day up hill or down hill same as most Eagle guy with series 60 better than Wayne's Cummins he was around 5.5
good luck
Clifford,
What transmission did you have? Also gearing, tire size and weight? If I could achieve what you got with your bus, I would really consider tuning and playing with the gearing on my bus. My engine and transmission only have 47,000 miles on them right now. The engine runs really smooth starts easy and the transmission shifts really good. It just seems to lag in the power department and get really bad milage with the trailer. If I run empty and don't have the trailer and stay at 55mph on flat ground, I can get 6mpg.
Quote from: TomC on October 29, 2011, 08:55:21 PM
I have seen Series 60's installed in MC6's. It's the only bus that makes the Series 60 look small since the engine compartment is so huge. The best setup is the 4000 series or B500 Allison 6spd for overall performance. If you want an automated transmission but not concerned with acceleration, then the Ultra Shift from Eaton in the 10, or 13spd will give you the best fuel mileage. Personally-I LOVE the performance of the Allison. Good Luck, TomC
Tom, I wish I could see one of them in person!
So what I get out of all this is... The S60 with the 4000 series or B500 transmissions are no longer than my 8v92 and 740? The electronics part of this conversion doesn't intimidate me at all. I am very familiar with all of today's automotive electronics, that is what I did for the city that I live in. My brother is the lead heavy duty mechanic for the state of Alaska here also. He has every specialty tool and computer to work with today's equipment and if he doesn't have it, the shop does.
One more question, Do you know if I can use the Bennett shifter that is in my bus with the B500? Or do I have to replace all of it front to rear?
Tom, you said, "Ultra Shift from Eaton in the 10, or 13spd". Is that similar to a 'Super 10'?
Thanks
Jack
Gary, after reading what you're doing and how your going to do it, you are correct. at your age and all those miles, converting to a 60 sounds like a good idea. i assumed you were just taking it on the occasional trip like we do, not over 5 or 6000 a year.
Have Fun!.
You lose the Stone Bennett Gary but they are easy to sell I ran 3:33 gears with a FS (fuel saver) 740 Allison,Don Fairchild runs a DDEC 8v82 with a 4060 Allison towing his 1 ton truck he averages around 8 to 9 mpg,Jones has 8v92 DDEC 1 in his Eagle he is 7 to 8 mpg and both keep their foot to floor and they cannot story to you plug the Pro Link in and it tells the truth.
I was happy with my 8v92 for power and mileage ran all over the west with friends with Cummins,Cat and series 60 engines they could never shake me at the mountains or fuel stops lol.
Only thing I never could correct around 4 or 5 o'clock on a 110 degree day with the new fuel getting hot you could notice a drop in power and with the 60 series it didn't seem to drop off,I loved my 8v92 they are a good engine if taken care of and I loved my Stone/Bennett also
good luck
I'm pretty sure I'll never swap out my 8-92, particularly since its got so few miles on a Luke rebuild. But if I did swap it I've always thought that the way to do it is to buy a highway tractor with the engine/trans combo that you want and swap the package. When I read about the troubles people have with the swaps they seem to centre around getting the trans/engine electronics to talk to each other. It seems to me the simple way to avoid that is to start with a pair that are already married to each other. Someone who has already done the swap could likely poke holes in my theory but it makes sense to me.
Bob O the N,
You are such a wise man it is not even funny!
Brian Diehl did exactly that and while he had a couple issues his swap was fairly straight forward and clean.
http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ediehls0792_1/BusSection10.html (http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ediehls0792_1/BusSection10.html)
;D BK ;D
Gary-the HT740 and the 4000 series are just about the same length. The Series 60 will be about 8" longer then the 8V-92TA. The Stone-Bennett shifter is an electronic over air shifter for a mechanical transmission. The Allison will require you to use its' own shifter-whether it be the push button or electronic handled shifter.
Jack-a Super 10 is a manual shift 10spd that was made (no longer made) by Eaton Roadranger. It has a 5spd shifter and you split each gear as you go-so less shifter moving. Eaton took their Roadranger transmissions and automized them. Basically removed the manual shifter and replaced them with a two motor shifter (X & Y shifter) running through their computer that also talks to the engine computer. The first version was the AutoSelect-where you still had a clutch pedal to start and stop only. Then when a shift was desired, you lifted the gas pedal and allowed the transmission to shift and reapplied the power. Not real successful. Next was the AutoShift where you still have a clutch pedal but the transmission shifts completely automatically (available in both 10 and 18spd close ratio). Then Roadranger brought out the UltraShift (in 10spd and 13spd) that has no clutch pedal using a centrifugal clutch. Not to good since the clutch never really engages-you only get about 100,000 miles of clutch life (considering I had 1.2 million miles on my clutch when I changed it to the Allison HT740). Most recently Roadranger has brought out the UltraShift Plus that has a regular clutch in it that is electronically controlled. The clutch works during each shift, so the shifts only take about a half of a second. These are available in most all transmissions- 10, 11, 13, and wide ratio 18spd. Even though they shift faster, the engine still has to release torque to shift-hence they still sound and feel like a manual transmission shifting.
I'm waiting for the new Allison 10spd twin countershaft torque converter equipped automatic to come out. Efficiency of a manual transmission with the acceleration and instant shifting of a hydraulic Allison transmission. Best of all worlds. Good Luck, TomC
If you were starting with an 8v71 and asking which would be a better conversion--8v92 or Series 60, than Series 60 would be obvious. However, I am wondering if your 8v92 is producing as it should. It should be in the 470 - 500 HP range, or roughly equivalent to the Series 60. I understand the four stroke will have more torque, but I doubt that that alone will convert your cresting at 15 mph to 50 mph. It would seem that you could first try to tweak as much power as you can from what you have to fairly evaluate the need for a change.
Using a truck engine you will need several extra parts - low profile pan with pick up tube and a flex plate to mate with the transmission. Been there done that on an Eagle -- love it. Will send you a PM RE: engine/trans
JimH
This has been some really good advise guys. I like getting everyone's opinions and making my decisions from there.
I am in the planning stages right now, and am trying to get all my ducks in a row. If I decide to go this route, I want to get the cost and all the parts together before I start.
BK, Thanks for that article! It was a good read!
Maybe like Len mentioned, I might need to check out my motor and see if all is right. As mentioned, my engine has only got 47k on it. I am pretty sure it has never had the rack run. Do you guys think that would have anything to do with it? The engine is not the silver series and it is a single turbo non electronic. I'm guessing around 400hp and maybe 1,000# tq. ?
I also believe my rear is really high geared? The bus will fly down the hi way, it won't shift into 4th until you get to 55mph.
Quote from: busguy01 on October 30, 2011, 11:00:21 AM
Using a truck engine you will need several extra parts - low profile pan with pick up tube and a flex plate to mate with the transmission. Been there done that on an Eagle -- love it. Will send you a PM RE: engine/trans
JimH
Thanks Jim, I would really appreciate that!!!
Gary -
By all means, run the rack on your 8V before you start spending $$$ for a engine swap.
Pull a valve cover and see what injectors you've got. There will be a round tag on the side with a letter/number combination on it. Post what you find here, and either Clifford or TomC can convert to HP/torque for that configuration.
You might find that running the rack and maybe an injector change may provide the power you want.
Worth a bit of time to find out!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Torque is not the difference in a 8v92 and series 60 I can get the same torque as the series 60 with a 8v92 the problem is a 8v92 does not have the long flat torque curve as a series 60 and won't hold the torque like a series 60 it falls off twice as fast,the long stroke on a 60 series gives it the advantage that is the reason they are so tall
good luck
Quote from: RJ on October 30, 2011, 11:28:33 AM
Gary -
By all means, run the rack on your 8V before you start spending $$$ for a engine swap.
Pull a valve cover and see what injectors you've got. There will be a round tag on the side with a letter/number combination on it. Post what you find here, and either Clifford or TomC can convert to HP/torque for that configuration.
You might find that running the rack and maybe an injector change may provide the power you want.
Worth a bit of time to find out!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Ok, I pulled the vlv cover, the number I got is.... 9A90
Quote from: Ericbsc on October 29, 2011, 06:14:54 PM
I installed a 12.7 series 60 in my eagle. I used the Allison 4000 mhp tranny. It is a 6 speed double overdrive with a .74 5th, and .64 6th (may have those backward?). I changed the ratio to a 4:11. What a package!!!! 65 mph 1360 rpm. 70 mph 1450 rpm. Went up a 7% 4 mile grade last week. Shifted from 6 th to 5th. Running 57 at the top. With my two stroke I was
Isn't 1360 RPM the lower end of what the Allison World series likes? My Dina has a Series 60 with B500. The gearing is 4.10:1. 6th gear is locked out and not available. The explanation I got for not using 6th gear is the RPMs would fall below the Allison minimum. I asked at the local Allison dealer about getting 6th gear activated. It would require $600 and a letter from an engineer at the manufacturer okaying the change.
My Series 60 is pretty small (350 HP) so it doesn't climb hills like a rocket like the guys with 475 HP.
I have researched Allison's web site. According to Allison the 4000 is much shorter than the 740.\
740 overall length: 37.4" 840 lbs.
4000 overall length: 31.2" 831 lbs.
4000 6.2" shorter.
I had both side by side in my shop. Seems close to what I measured.
I have only put about 2000 miles on mine with this setup. So far shifts are great and it hums along at 1360-1460 in 6th gear. On a long climb it will shift to 5th. In 5th at 65 best I remember was in the 1500-1550 range. I know if one Eagle with a 60. 740 and a 3:36 rear. He is at about 1800 at 70 mph. That may be high?? I don't know
For the first 80,000 miles of life my eagle with the big cam 400, 740 trans,3:73 rear end,and driving at between 1900 and 2000 RPM"S I was getting 5.5mpg's ( as Clifford said). That is one good thing about that Cummins it will run there all day, all you have to do is put fuel in it. I slowed down to 65 and put a 3:38 rear end and now get closer to 6.5 MPG.
Wayne
Before swapping out the 8V92 I'd check with Don Fairchild he can make that 8V92 sing & get fuel mileage @ the same time.
;D BK ;D
Quote from: Seayfam on October 30, 2011, 12:19:58 PM
Ok, I pulled the vlv cover, the number I got is.... 9A90
IIRC, that injector is good for 450HP. I'd have the rack run & the rest of the engine checked by someone who
KNOWS what they're doing before going thru all the work to change engines. . .
If you frequently find yourself needing a gear between 3rd & 4th - 4th ain't enough, but 3rd is too much - you could look into putting in a 754CR for less $$ & time . . . .
Gary, you have been given some good advice. A couple of items for reference:
1) If you subscribe to BCM, take a look at my three part series on engine conversion (Oct./Nov./Dec 2009)
2) My project pages discusses the Series 60/AutoShift conversion in my '85 Eagle (see signature).
Jim
The 9A90's will give you 435hp and 1275lb/ft torque. If you have a by pass valve on your blower (looks like a small can on the top back of the blower) it will put out more like 450hp and 1350lb/ft torque. With 9G90's, will have 450hp still but closer to 1,400lb/ft torque-better spray pattern. Only the DDEC engines (from Detroit) were up in the 475hp and 500hp range with 1550lb/ft torque.
The difference in mileage-8V-92TA with electronic injection (DDEC) will get 1 mpg better then an mechanically injected engine. The Series 60 engine compared to a DDEC 8V-92TA-the S60 will get 1 mpg better then the 8V-92TA. Good Luck, TomC
Thanks for all this wonderful advise. With all I got from this, I decided that I'm going to run the rack and go with 9G90's for now. Hopefully I can get it to 450hp and 1400# torque!
I don't have the by pass valve on my blower so I'm assuming that with my injectors and everything tuned, I would be at 435hp at best. So this should make some difference.
I live in a commercial fishing town and two stroke Diesel mechanics are a dime a dozen. I would say about 75% of the boats around here are two stroke Detroit's. I shouldn't have a hard time getting the injectors and the proper tools to do this.
I'm going to try and do it in the next couple of days. We have a really nice long grade leaving town here that I can try it on. Every time I've headed out of town, my average speed on that grade was 30mph in second gear.
Stay tuned for update.
Thanks again, you guys are wonderful!! This is why I asked.
Gary, changing the 9A90's to 9G90's are not going to help you the 9A90's will get 475 hp with the right blower and setting send me your turbo number and I have a bypass blower here I'll make you deal on,the bypass blower is the best improvement you can do on a 8v92.
The turbo has to be the right one to do what you trying to make happen too a small hot housing on the turbo gives you low end torque the larger housing gives you the high end torque you need to decide what you want and how the engine is setup before installing different injectors it could make things worse instead of better just trying to save you some grief and money, what is your turbo boost ?
good luck
There is more to it than that. You need to know what cams and liners are in the engine. You say you have a green engine, if the is true then you have tall ports and standard cams. You will never get the torque with that set up. Clifford is that blower a 100% with by pass or 83%. Change the injectors and blower, change the turbo from the 8101 that is probably on it now to a TV8511 or TV 8512 with a 1.23 hot housing and it will run a lot better. why not find a HD4060 and have Clifford get the black box for the engine from Cole, then change the rear gears to 4:56's it will run up and down the hill at a better speed. But first give us the serial Number from the engine and let us check what the engine is.
Don
UCJ. Dan There is no such thing as a good cummins engine
Gary, it sounds like you are going to borrow the tools (really only the injector height gauge) and run the rack yourself. While "the book" tells you how to do the work, an experienced 2 stroke mechanic has developed a "feel" for adjustment process. Can make all the difference.
If you have not done the process, I would borrow the mechanic as well as the tools and have them teach you how to "finesse" the process.
Jim
As a good buddy said yesterday " What's this a 'running the rack' crap? Adjust the damn injectors and valves first. Then makes sure the governor gives full fuel. Then run the damn rack"
The 9G90's would be great but do all the other stuff first. That way you know what you need based on your driving style. With a bunch of 2 stroke mechanics around that should be relatively inexpensive. Blower bypass. Grab that. Turbos are critical. And are another science in themselves. You tell the turbo man what you want the engine to accomplish and magically appears the turbo you wanted. Of course you will spend some money.
Bill
Don chimed in with great advice. So that supercedes my part two. But I still stick by part one.
I ran the numbers Don it is a 100% blower I have a mini bypass blower also for a 8v92 make work better for him,call me I need some liners for a 8v71 .020 over you have any low hour sets
Ok guys, I looked all over the engine for numbers, all I could find was on the left hand side of the motor if you are looking at it from the back of the bus, it looks to be on the head though.
Here is that number... 5148642 below that is 68 and next to that is B.
The only number I could find on the turbo is... M11
I had dinner last night with my Ex boss at the city shop. He went to school back in the day for these Detroit two stroke's and worked on them up untill he retired. The first thing he asked me is if it had the bypass blower. He is going to come over and show me how to adjust everything including the Jakes. He thought we should try that first and see what happens. He wasn't real sure that it was going to gain me much, but worth the try and good experience for me.
I'll post back when done.
Just an update on the tune
I just got done taking the bus on a drive out of town and up the pass. The only noticeable difference was the Jakes when coming down the hill. Everything was pretty close as far as the adjustments go, except the Jakes. My old boss Don, he didn't think that changing the blower or the injectors was going to gain me a whole lot in the climbing department and he didn't think I would gain any MPG either. He said that he didn't really care for the early 8v92 like I have.
I went and bought my brothers series 60 just because it is a good deal and comes with the whole truck. Over the next year, I plan on collecting all the parts I need for the conversion a little at a time. I'm kicking around the idea of going with an auto shift. I just need to do some measuring and a whole lot of research to see what will gain me the best power and mpg.
Gary, I think you would like the AutoShift. It is pretty slow on the acceleration (in my case, partly because I am pretty soft on the throttle for all of the gears until I get to 7th). One of the issues is that you loose boost with each shift. However, it is fantastic on the hills (big and small) as you always have the correct gear.
The Series 60 will need to be a DDEC III and maybe DDEC IV, and you will have to have DD or someone with the proper program activate the J1939 port.
I list the shallow pan parts on my project pages as well as my wiring harness.
If you go with the AutoShift, they call for two shielded twisted cables in the wire bundle. The wire they call out is very expensive, but I can give you an alternative. BTW, all of the AutoShift manuals are at roadranger.com. The main manual you need is TRIG0050 and you can download it from here:
http://www.roadranger.com/Roadranger/servicesalesliterature/LiteratureCenterResults/index.htm?&pt=OW_GL_RR&target=1162919212424 (http://www.roadranger.com/Roadranger/servicesalesliterature/LiteratureCenterResults/index.htm?&pt=OW_GL_RR&target=1162919212424)
If you post your Series 60 serial number, we can sort out what you have.
Jim
Wait till you price that pan it will get your attention lol
Jim, thanks for all that information! What kind of mileage do you get on average?
Clifford, how much difference is in the pans from the truck to the bus? How about $ ?
My bus has been lifted 3" for traveling Alaska roads. So I have a bunch of clearance under it right now.
Heck Clifford whats a $600.00 oil pan plus $300.00 in dipstick/ pickup tube in the whole scheme of things. If we are luck it will bring $.02 on the dollar anyway!!LOL
You got buy on the pan Eric lol
good luck
Trust me I was happy to get out for less than 1K on tha one!!!
Quote from: Don Fairchild on October 30, 2011, 07:38:56 PM
...
UCJ. Dan There is no such thing as a good cummins engine
Awe Don, what's the matter with my ISM????
Gary, the truck pan is quite deep and the sump would be in the rear of the bus (see photo - used in my article).
The pan and pickup from a DD dealer is about $1K. I think they have about 4 versions, I chose the least costly.
Jim
What is so miraculous about that pan? I can see buying a pickup if it is hard to modify, but why wouldn't you just cut and shut that pan to the configuration you want?
Brian
Not a metal pan Brian they can cost up to a couple of grand and they sell a lot of oil pans check the dumpster at a DD dealer lol
I ended up with two truck pans and thought I had valuable scrap. As Clifford said, it turns out their are composite and not aluminum. Not sure why all the shallow pans I saw at the DD dealer were aluminum.
Gary, you asked about mileage. According to my SilverLeaf, I have averaged 7.6 MPG over 65K miles.
On the first Series 60, the fuel usage was spot on. I have my Aqua-Hot and Generator on a separate tank, so only engine fuel comes out of the main tank. I set up 4 odometers on the SilverLeaf (total miles, trip miles, daily miles, and fuel miles). On the latter, I reset the odometer with each fill-up. With the first engine, the gallons on the pump agreed almost exactly with the odometer. On this engine, the fuel used seems to be more than the odometer indicates. I now have enough data to see if the fuel usage needs to have a correction in the software.
That said, I am pretty sure that I am averaging at least 7 MPG and probably more like 7.3 MPG. Most of the 65K miles the bus and toad was at a weight close to 44-46K pounds (heavy toad). Plus, we live at 7500 feet, so every trip has some hard pulls.
Jim
Gary, if the series 60 is a EGR engine don't expect 7 mpg like Jim's not going to happen all the casino buses that make the run to Phoenix are 5.8 mpg you can Prolink anyone any day of the week and it comes up 5.8 in Prevost or the MCI's
Composite pan - wow. I would still probably make one. The flange would be a big waste of 1/2" aluminium plate, but the rest would be a half sheet of 1/8" 6061-T6 and some tube. Probably under $500 including tig gas and a jig, but my time would be free...
Brian
I doubt that Brian the bolting system looks like it would be hard to make for the average guy with only a tig welder,not just bolts going through a flange and the gasket system is a work of art
good luck
I paid $596.40 That was 6 years ago mind you. But that's also Canuck bux - 6 years ago that was worth about $400 in real dollars.
Quote from: rv_safetyman on November 01, 2011, 07:42:42 PM
Gary, the truck pan is quite deep and the sump would be in the rear of the bus (see photo - used in my article).
The pan and pickup from a DD dealer is about $1K. I think they have about 4 versions, I chose the least costly.
Jim
That sure looks like it's a tight fit in your bus. How much room do you have between your engine and floor? My bus with the 8v92 has enough room that I could crawl on top of the engine.
That pan looks a lot shallower. 1,000 seems like a lot of $ for that pan. Maybe I can keep an eye out at junkyards over the next year.
Thanks for that pic.
Quote from: luvrbus on November 02, 2011, 06:58:15 AM
Gary, if the series 60 is a EGR engine don't expect 7 mpg like Jim's not going to happen all the casino buses that make the run to Phoenix are 5.8 mpg you can Prolink anyone any day of the week and it comes up 5.8 in Prevost or the MCI's
Clifford,
I don't believe it is an EGR engine. The engine is in a 1996 truck and is the original engine, just rebuilt. I see TomC just posted some info on that in another thread.
If I don't see any gains, I would be really suprised. But if nothing else, I'm sure to gain climbing abilities.
Clifford, you are probably right, it's hard to tell but the gasket looks like it has an o-ring or ridge located in a groove. I've made weirder stuff. One BMW engine I have I milled a dry sump oil pan out of a billet of aluminium. Manual mill, I stood there cranking the table back and forth for about three days! ;D It was very complicated, I made it all one piece and milled all the oil pickups (three) into the pan.
Brian