I'm green behind the ears, and pushed the coach at 70 MPH a little too long this morning. Overheated (200) and shut down. It won't turn over when I press the starter. Is this a safety until the engine cools? Can I just sit and let it cool then try to get started in an hour or so? No coolant leaking, no steam, no drama...just overheated, died, and I coasted into a weigh station. Please tell me that I can let it cool and it will start. :-\ 1984 MCI-9 6v92 turbo DD Mech injection. I'm only 100 miles from my destination.
Thanks guys,
Scott
Should be able to. 200 degrees shouldn't shut you down though. Gauge off? someth ing else going on?
Just as it shut off, the overheat indicator was blinking and the gauge was slightly over 200. My coach runs normally cooler than that.
Does the starter engage but the engine not start? If nothing is happening-try starting it from the back. Good Luck, TomC
If the dash alarms came on at the same time as it shut down, that is what the auto shut downs of that era typically did.
As for stock dash gauges, they must be considered to be lying until proven otherwise. The numbers printed on the face must be considered worthless. The only thing you might know, is where it points "normally". Without a lot of testing while underway, you cannot trust how much movement means how many degrees of temp rise.
It is not usual for the starter to not engage, as that is the stock bypass for the auto-shut down. You need to have the fuel pressure switch in the circuit in order to keep holding the start button in to keep the engine running. This was discussed in a recent thread on one board or the other.
So, hopefully, it will turn over once it cools, otherwise, start confirming voltage at all the critical points. You might have a coincidence of a starter circuit failure caused by the vibration going down the road, unrelated to the overheat.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Scott keep us posted. Call if you need to talk thru 812 449 8263 verizon cell Bob. Ps ck all the usual color of oil water level belt tight on fan drive. look for loose wire on pressure switch (fuel) should be in line with fuel line close to filter. Just a brief once over glance if anything out of place.
Scott called me. He said nothing at the starter, not even a click. First we checked transmission in neutral, all engine compartment switches in correct position. Belt on and tight. He then tried starter again and it turned over. He said no obvious water leaks and engine compartment seemed no warmer than normal. Engine compartment gauge was showing around 160 when he was on the phone with me. I told him to check water level before starting the bus. He called back and said he added about 2 1/2 gallons (that filled it right to the fill cap). I explained where the alarmstats were and how to disable them if it did it again AND if the engine compartment gauge shows the proper engine temp. Jack
Too bad, I just passed that same point Tue on my way to LA, I might have been able to help.
As already posted, temp gages are worthless until observed in normal operation. My temp gage reads around 140* just below the green band when the engine is actually running around 180* as measured by IR gage. When it reaches the green it is just on the verge of spewing out coolant. When it shows 180* in the middle of the green band it is VERY hot. Had to learn all this the hard way!
My V730 oil temp gage does the same thing, shows around 230-240* when it is actually around 200*.
I've checked all the grounds with a good meter so can only guess it is poor wiring connections, poor wiring or just the long lengths of wire required. One other thought is poor conductivity where the sensors are screwed into the engine - I plan to loosen and re-tighten them to check that out.
Your problem might also be unmatched gauge and sender.
We're finally at our destination ;D Apopka, FL. Jack, you were so so helpful and you're the reason we're here now. Thank you to all of you for the responses, as well as the phone number (Bob). I did what Jack suggested...topped off rad fluid. Engine was really no hotter to me than normal, but that doesn't mean anything. Basically I have a couple of different scenarios that I will try to sort out over the next week.
1. My dash gauge is lying, and it told the engine to shut down because it hates me.
2. Coach really was overheating and my engine gauge is stuck or lying because it hates me.
3. If overheating, it could be caused by the fact that my exhaust downpipe just separated from the turbo/outlet connection up top next to the turbo. So much of the exhaust heat is blowing into the engine compartment causing things to heat up a bit.
So here's what I did. I let the engine cool a bit with all three doors wide open. After a while it would turn over so I know now that indeed the overheat safety prevents the starter from even turning over the engine until it's cooled down. After putting 2.5 gallons of fluid in the rad, we took off down the hwy and kept it at around 65 mph. Dash gauge flirted with 200 and shut the coach off again...right at an intersection as I was pulling into a T/A for fuel. This time, I was a bit torqued since I was completely blocking traffic. So I opened up my tool bay, got out my sockets and pulled the wires for the dash sending unit and overheat safety kill circuitry. I know that was risky, but step into my shoes stranded 100 miles away from destination and blocking traffic with a homeless guy peering into my engine compartment while holding up a sign to the now blocked traffic indicating he wanted money. He banked today... 8) Coach ran, but floored it went about 5 MPH...for about 500 feet...not sure why it did that. Got it to T/A fueled up, then headed to Apopka. No issues after that...of course the dash gauge was flat. Engine gauge never showed a reading above 180. That being said, at the T/A, I bungeed my engine doors in the open position (pulled out the cotter pin and door open stops so they would open flat against the back of the coach) and drove like that the rest of the way. If it was overheating, there was a ton of wind now blowing around those open doors. Anyway, we're here, hooked up, and I'm about to take a much-needed shower. Thanks so much for the help, and Jack, you made my month. ;)
Scott
Dash gauge has nothing to do with shut down, that is strictly controlled by the alarm stats at each thermostat housing. Alarm stats triggering a shut down should not prevent the engine from being turned over when you push the start button, it is designed so that you can hold the start button as an emergency over ride to move the coach out of harms way after a shut down. If the alarm stat being triggered did in fact prevent the start circuit from operating, it is wired incorrectly. Being 2.5 gallons low on coolant will cause you to run hotter than usual, these MCI's have very marginal cooling to begin with, and running even a little low will kill you. Also where do you run the oil level? Some people run them a gallon or so on the low side to try and lower oil consumption. If you are running on the low side, that may also contribute to running warmer than usual. Less oil in the crank case means the oil runs hotter and the cooler has to dissipate more heat.
The French lost an Airbus over the Atlantic a while back, if you dig into it, the stupid plane is so idiot proof you cant override control inputs that exceed design limits. In a dive where you really need to pull it hard to keep from smacking the surface, perhaps hard enough to exceed design limits that could cause structural damage, the computers prevent excess G loading and null the inputs. They decided it was better to risk total destruction rather than allow pilots the option to be pilots and decide if some structural failure was worth the risk over absolute certain death. So they absolutely died. Smack!
IMHO, these alarm stats are nothing more than idiot proofing the bus against hurting itself because the majority of drivers Bus companies hire never look at gauges and wouldnt pull over even if they saw the temp pegged or the oil pressure at zero and smoke pouring out the back. It would totally tick me off if my Bus decided I was too stoopid to know whether or not I wanted to risk wrecking the engine over getting the bugger off the road. If I owned anything like that, those things would be discarded ASAP. Im my own Captain, dang it, and I can read a gauge, and can see the back end out the mirror, and I can decide if and when I wanna start my engine, and I aint about to let some bean counter from who knows where decide for me whether it will do harm to MY Bus or not.
So Paul, tell us how you REALLY feel. LOL
I admit I resist new stuff. While I still feel comfortable with a set of points and having to set the gap and timing on a car there is no way we can find fault with a system of sensors that shuts our engines down in the event of a problem.
I agree with Paul about planes that limit pilot inputs. That design intended to keep the wings on a plane apparently ignores the fact Mother Nature can put a plane in an attitude that dictates such inputs. But for our buses it is not like we as drivers cannot benefit from the shut down features. I cannot comment on how MCI is set up, but on a Prevost coach, going back to DDECI in 1987 there were only 3 reasons for an engine shut down. They were low coolant level, low oil pressure and high engine temperature. But even those shut downs came with a 15 second warning, and there is a switch the driver can use to over ride the shut down.
Having the coach set up that way, even the least involved driver has fair warning and the tool by which he can get the coach to a safe place. I have seen on this and other forums posts by owners about coaches with high temps, low oil pressure, and indications the owners only deal with issues when they become critical or serious. All the manufacturers are doing is trying to protect the owners from themselves. Seems like a good deal to me.
I don't know what feature shut Scott down initially. I do know on my coach if I had to add 2.5 gallons to my cooling system the low coolant level would have shut me down. It could be the temps that shut him down, or it could be a bad sensor that triggered the event. Regardless of the cause, taking the safety features from the system at some point could cost Scott an engine.
Look's like every one has given you a lot of very good advise in regards to your overheat problem with your MC-9.
Perhaps I can add a thought so here goes.
I have a very good friend who is a retired intercity bus driver over 38 years of driving buses.
Derf Namyar has driven every thing From the GMC's 4104,4106,4107,PD4501 Scenicruisers and the P8M4905A Buffalos.
MCI,from the 5's through the latest ones MCI has built.
Eagles 01,05,10's
Also the Prevost various models.
He has often told me over the years when it's hot keep your speed down to 60-65 MPH max don't run to fast or it will overheat and shut down.
Nothing worse that coach that has over heated and shutdown with a full load of unhappy passengers.
But he also said a good pretrip inspection is need to make sure all fluid levles are to the full mark.
Also don't forget your tires and tire pressure is part of the walk around check before leaving.
The above are quotes from Derf.
The buses he drove were Oklahoma Transportation Company coaches,Greyhound coaches,And Trailways coaches.
When it was hot in Oklahoma, Texas and Arkansas he would keep the speed down.
He said 99% of the time he would always finish the trip with no problem.
Take it easy nice and slow when it's hot outside.
jlv
If have you agree with easy is better. If I push mine (8v92) up around 75-80 the temps will rise to 200+. If I stay around 65-70, it wil run all day long at 190-195.
Keep in mind that when your making HP, you're going to see some added heat.
I think mine will shut down at 210. Don't want to find out so when I see 200+ 1 or 2, I ease off the pedal.
At times, I do wish I could push it 75+ for longer than I do.
The 2 strokes cool best between 1600 and 1800 rpm, the good thing about the modern 4 strokes you can up the turbo boost and adjust the cooling on one it will remove the heat through the exhaust were the older 2 stroke engines have to do it with water and air only
good luck
Artvonne and Prevosman
Just to clarify, that 330 crashed was in direct law - in other words, the computers were moving the controls in DIRECT relationship to the sidestick displacement, as in manual flight in any non computer a/c. Unfortunately, the crew failed to realize they originally placed the a/c in a deep stall and the only way out is to start flying again by shoving the nose down and decreasing the angle of attack. Once flying, then pull back. It was a clear case of forgetting the basics with horrible consequences. Stall and spin recovery - lesson plan 5 - private license circa 1970.
The 330 is almost idiot proof - but not completely. Luckily, I was not enough of an idiot to be bitten in the butt by it - in over 3000+ hours I flew them.
Rob
Quote from: gus on October 27, 2011, 01:49:16 PM
As already posted, temp gages are worthless until observed in normal operation. My temp gage reads around 140* just below the green band when the engine is actually running around 180* as measured by IR gage.
I've been wondering... Where on the engine should I be checking the temperature with the IR thermometer? It varies so much.
The 8V71 in our 4106 seems to run just under 190 on the dash gauge, and it climbs to just over 200 when climbing. But I have no idea how closely calibrated this is to the actual readings on the engine.
Quote from: gus on October 27, 2011, 01:49:16 PM
My V730 oil temp gage does the same thing, shows around 230-240* when it is actually around 200*.
Our V730 doesn't have a temperature gauge. Where on it should I be checking it with the IR thermometer? And what is considered "normal" and "too hot"???
Thanks!
- Chris
water temp you can shoot with an IR gun on the thermostat housing. Oil temp you can shoot with the IR gun on the oil pan or on the oil filter itself. i would be happy with anything around 220 on the pan after a decent run, not over 250 and not under 200. You want the oil to be hot enough to keep condensation out. The bearings see oil after it goes through the oil cooler, which will try to bring the oil to the same temp as the coolant. The oil in the pan is about as hot as the oil gets, except when it is actually in the bearings, of course. If I where going to install an oil temp gauge on an engine I would drill and tap the oil filter head or put it in the block where the flow of oil into the main gallery from the oil cooler is. Both are too much work for me...
Brian
I check with the IR right next to the heat sender and for the trans at both the oil and coolant inlet and outlet hose connections. This sure gives me peace of mind.
I also agree with the speed thing, I notice a big difference in heat over 65 mph.
Len,
I thought of that but not sure how to get them matched up. Will have to do some research for sure.
Chris,
My V730 book says 160* is normal but my gage shows that two minutes after I start the engine and my IR thermometer shows that the gage isn't correct. The trans dome shows 200-210* for 99% of the time. Remember that most IR thermos should be held about 8" from the surface measured and aren't accurate on very shiny surfaces.
Quote from: rgwilliams on October 28, 2011, 09:56:01 AM
Artvonne and Prevosman
Just to clarify, that 330 crashed was in direct law -
Rob
I cannot question on your experience, but I can say that everything I have read, from various aviation forums, to various aviation magazines, all say the same thing, that the aircraft CAN NOT be over controlled beyond what is programmed into the flight computers. That the aircraft likely stalled due to icing of the pitot system, and without that information the autopilot via the computers are what put the circumstances of the disaster into play. The airplane fell out of the sky into a high speed dive, and the controls could not have been pulled hard enough to pull out of a dive that would exceed design limitations of the aircraft.
In any other aircraft, from a Cessna 172, to a 747, a pilot could, if desired, put the plane into a configuration that would tear off the wings. The Airbus wont allow it, and that particular aircraft is likely sitting somewhere on the bottom of the atlantic because of that very fact. And that fact is that engineers decided to take control away from pilots to protect the plane from hurting itself. Part of that decision came from the airbus accident in New York, when it was discovered the pilots were a bit to judicious with the rudder pedals leading to failure of the rudder. So rather than fix the rudder, they took control away from the pilots happy feet.
Yes, an emergency override that would allow the engine to be started after mechanical fault would be a good idea. A better idea would be for pilots to watch their gauges and respond to warnings rather than ignore them until they escalate into failures and emergencies. It is that failure to notice anything and the failure to react to it when it becomes blatantly obvious, that has led manufactures to install safety protection systems. Its not just women who ignore the flashing red light saying "OIL - OIL - OIL", while vast plumes of smoke exit the rear of the car while they blissfully along, unaware. I was reading a repair invoice for a car that came into the shop on the back of a wrecker. "owner said the car heater stopped making heat, and shortly afterwards the engine coolant light came on. A while later the car started slowing down and then jerked toa stop with load noises coming from the engine". Thats why your Bus has alarmstats to shut it down, because they hire idiots to drive them that wont pull over and stop until the engine is gone.
Quote from: rgwilliams on October 28, 2011, 09:56:01 AM
Artvonne and Prevosman
Just to clarify, that 330 crashed was in direct law - in other words, the computers were moving the controls in DIRECT relationship to the sidestick displacement, as in manual flight in any non computer a/c. Unfortunately, the crew failed to realize they originally placed the a/c in a deep stall and the only way out is to start flying again by shoving the nose down and decreasing the angle of attack. Once flying, then pull back. It was a clear case of forgetting the basics with horrible consequences. Stall and spin recovery - lesson plan 5 - private license circa 1970.
The 330 is almost idiot proof - but not completely. Luckily, I was not enough of an idiot to be bitten in the butt by it - in over 3000+ hours I flew them.
Rob
Rob,
That is scary because the Colgan Regional that crashed on an approach into BUF had the exact same pilot imputs. He pulled on the yoke when he got the stick pusher, went into a spin and 51 people died. Nobody is teaching or learning the basics apparently.
".....the aircraft CAN NOT be over controlled beyond what is programmed into the flight computers. That the aircraft likely stalled due to icing of the pitot system, and without that information the autopilot via the computers are what put the circumstances of the disaster into play. The airplane fell out of the sky into a high speed dive, and the controls could not have been pulled hard enough to pull out of a dive that would exceed design limitations of the aircraft."
Paul, this is incorrect.
The 330 flight control logic has 3 modes- normal law, where the computers provide all the protection, alternate law, which is a degraded mode but still provides some protection and direct law, which provides none. It is as if you have a cable connected to the control surfaces. It is very easy to overstress the airframe in this mode - if you are flying and not stalled. They were stalled.
"....various aviation forums, to various aviation magazines, all say the same thing..."
I read some of these forums and it really amazes me what drivel floats around in hyperspace as "truth", and then gets transposed to print media as gospel.
The autopilot and auto thrust self disengaged due to protection built in because of erroneous data inputs from the pitot tubes icing up. At taht poin they were still flying. What followed after, was the pilot manually stalling the aircraft and unable to recover.
From the accident report - parentheses are mine
After the autopilot disengagement:
* the airplane climbed to 38,000 ft, (this was a zoom climb at a rate exceeding 7000 feet per minute.)
* the stall warning was triggered and the airplane stalled,
* the inputs made by the PF were mainly nose-up, (note PF stands for pilot flying)
* the descent lasted 3 min 30, during which the airplane remained stalled. The angle of attack increased and remained above 35 degrees,
* the engines were operating and always responded to crew commands.
- The last recorded values were a pitch attitude of 16.2 degrees nose-up, a roll angle of 5.3 degrees left and a vertical speed of -10,912 ft/min.
Note the aircraft was falling nose up -16 degrees up - and the angle of attack was 35+degrees. Most aircraft stall at 14 to 15 degrees angle of attack- the difference between the angle of the wing chord and the angle of the airflow hitting the wing. The aircraft was falling like a flat plate at almost 11000 feet per minute. They were not diving , the nose was pointed up the whole time from 38000 feet to impact. They were doing exactly the wrong thing - pulling back.
The other Airbus accident of which you spoke (shortly after 9/11) was caused by overactive feet, but there never was any downgrading of the force the pedals could exert in the A300, A330 or A340 or any other heavy jets. We were specifically cautioned and trained NOT to correct roll with our feet - that still holds true in all modern transport category airplanes Airbus or Boeing/Douglas.
Jon:
"He pulled on the yoke when he got the stick pusher, went into a spin and 51 people died. Nobody is teaching or learning the basics apparently."
The basics are still being taught but not practiced nearly enough, whether it be due to budget constraints or corner cutting.
I'd better stop this before I'm declared off topic. I can't stand myths being perpetuated about a great airplane. Ask Sully what he thinks of Airbus by the way. They all fly the same.
Rob
Im sorry, but you are surmising things that are simply unknown, as no flight data recorder was ever recovered. And while I will admit there is a great amount of hyperbole on internet forums, I trust magazines such as AOPA, and sites such as the FAA and NTSB, and I read them, and the opinions they present. There is a great deal of information dealing with airbus nullifying control inputs to protect structural integrity, and its well documented. To have people believe that well trained international airline pilots with thousands of hours of experience would hold an airplane in a stall condition while remaining almost wings level, for more than three minutes, while watching the altimeter unwind at over 10,000 feet per minute, while a stall warning horn blares loudly in the cockpit, and do absolutely nothing, is ludicrous. Three minutes is darn near an eternity when your sitting there watching your aircraft malfunction. For the French Government to admit the pilots made any attempt to fly the plane, shows they were determined to save it. Especially when anyone with any knowledge of said events knows the aircraft was under full autopilot control previous to any trouble. Something went wrong, they deactivated the AP, took control in a desperate attempt to salvage it, and couldnt.
Quote from: artvonne on October 28, 2011, 11:52:29 PM
Im sorry, but you are surmising things that are simply unknown, as no flight data recorder was ever recovered.
Flight 447's recorder? Brought up in May. Data downloaded (http://www.bea.aero/en/enquetes/flight.af.447/info16may2011.en.php).
OK, Enough about aircraft. Let's stick to the OP's subject. Your friendly moderator
Wow Jack you never heard of the Air "BUS" they lost me yesterday lol
Scott,
Now that you have safely"landed"( sorry i just could not help myself) in Apopka, any updates on what was / is causing the problem. Is Apopka going to be your base for a while? I had a few days off or might have been able to help out on 95 as i run to Miami, over to Immokalee to load then up 29 to 27 to haines city then I4 to 95 and back up to New jersey on a weekly run. There is always one of us somewhere to try to help out , as you know first hand from talking to Mr Jack . Good Luck your in good hands down there. Some time i would like to hear more about the WMO experience...............
Thanks so much for the kind offer :-) Yes, we're in Apopka now. We'll be here for just under 6 months. Headed home to Michigan for a month for Christmas, but the coach will stay put here while we drive our car up to Michigan. I really haven't yet determined what went wrong. Here's the scenario:
1. Driving in Florida along I-95 South 86 degree temps and driving around 70-72 MPH
2. Dash temp gauge reads just above 200 degrees, overheat indicator comes on, engine shuts down.
3. Coast into a weigh station, try to restart, no click, no turning over, nothing when I press the starter.
4. Engine temp gauge reads 180 degrees.
5. Called Jack, per his suggestion, added 2.5 gallons of water to radiator before it overflowed.
6. Wait until motor cools down, try to restart, starts right up.
7. Drive down the road a piece but slightly slower (60-65 MPH), coach again overheats, shuts down.
8. Engine temp gauge still reads 175-180 degree. Dash gauge reads above 200.
9. Per Jack's suggestion, I disconnect shutdown wires/dash gauge/indicator wires on thermostats to stop the auto-shutdown feature. (in the middle of the road)
10. Bungee-corded the engine doors wide open (took off the pins that stop the doors from opening all the way) and drove the rest of the way (100 miles) at around 60 mph and a flat dash gauge.
I noticed that the exhaust downpipe going from the turbo to the muffler has completely come off. So the hot exhaust gases are blowing directly into the engine compartment. My guess, is that this was heating things up enough to set off the alarms. What I don't get, is why the engine gauge reads 175-180 when coach is warmed up, but the dash gauge was indicating an overheat situation. Dash gauge has always read 180 up until now. So, I will fix the exhaust and see if that solves the issue. If not, I'll replace the overheat t-stat sensors and see if that fixes it. If not, I'll drive the coach into the nearest lake and start over and see if that fixes it. :-\
10.
Before this post I was interested in installing a set of aftermarket gauges to display oil pressure, water temp & transmission temp. (maybe even a fuel level gauge)but I was unsure if auto gauges would be accurate and most importantly where to "tap" into for the senders.
Has anybody done this?
Brand of gauges?
location to install senders?
thanks!
Quote from: uemjg on November 01, 2011, 01:02:24 PM
Before this post I was interested in installing a set of aftermarket gauges to display oil pressure, water temp & transmission temp. (maybe even a fuel level gauge)but I was unsure if auto gauges would be accurate and most importantly where to "tap" into for the senders.
Has anybody done this?
Brand of gauges?
location to install senders?
thanks!
I purchased Datcon gauges & sending units from Precision Speedometer in Phoenix, AZ. There were great to work with including tech support. Oil pressure sender was installed in the oil pressure manifold, oil temperature sender was installed in oil pan after removing an existing plug. water temp senders were installed in thermostat housings (2 gauges, one on each cylinder head), and transmission sender in the specified threaded hole in the transmission (740 Allison). This is all on an 8V71 in a MC-8. Jack
I think if you actually overheated this time of the year regardless of your speed, when it was what 80 degree out, something is for sure not straight.
Either that or a low fluid level sensor shut you down and functioned as designed.
You want to confirm/test the senders and the dash gauge to see what they are sending/receiving/displaying.
Where is/was the exhaust blowing from the fractured pipes? On, or towards, any of the stuff that measures the temps?
You need fairly high RPM's to get the required air flow to give you an idea where the HOT exhaust gasses were directed.
Your good quality multi-meter will be your friend, if you choose to do the troubleshooting hours...
You want to know what the readings should be on the alarmstats for a given temp, and then see if they indeed are allowing the appropriate voltage/resistance to pass.
The alarmstats may be tested in a pot of water on the stove, much the same way as thermostats, if you are inspired to drain the coolant down below their location, remove, rig up in the pot, test leads in place, and start warming the water.
May be easier and less annoying to the neighbours than running the engine, and getting temps all the way to boiling is easier and cheaper in energy required.
Or, just get a fresh set of alarmstats and R&R?
I'd want to have a pretty good idea as to what has triggered these events, so I could go down the road without thinking about it anymore.
Knowledge is power, and peace of mind?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
uemjg I already have the those gauges with the exception of trans temp. And I'm glad I have them. I think I'll try the boiling water test for the alarmstats. I would like to know if one or both has gone bad. Here's a list of questions:
1. There are two correct? If one of them trips, but the other doesn't (because one is bad) would that still trip the alarm and shutdown?
2. I am posting a few photos to show where the exhaust came off. It is literally blowing hot exhaust gasses inches past a large copper coolant line. Could this be the cause of the overheat alarmstats going off?
3. What is involved in having a mechanical (v.s. electronic) temp gauge installed for the dash gauge so that my most accurate readings are at the dash not in an engine bay (pretty useless when driving down the road).
Here are photos of where the exhaust separated as well as photos of the disconnected alarmstat wires:
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-vkoTboI0XpQ%2FTrFVTE5l0II%2FAAAAAAAAE2Y%2FBlFoToLIOpM%2Fs400%2FDSC06340.JPG&hash=761f6fdc291b815d14d3ce7058cd9bf2f683c80d) (https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-0sIM4jeBTUA%2FTrFVdzm3cKI%2FAAAAAAAAE2o%2FLofNdK8fT4s%2Fs400%2FDSC06342.JPG&hash=619d186d02f187e1de7e0fb1c8ce49eb61e114d9)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-xvvaDfC537c%2FTrFVjoekqFI%2FAAAAAAAAE2w%2FAg-zkz3HRfc%2Fs400%2FDSC06343.JPG&hash=20368633509430cd02f49f611656ab8c2a004fd0) (https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-klrfm3DoCJs%2FTrFVOLQ-KCI%2FAAAAAAAAE2Q%2FefhTkYivaP4%2Fs400%2FDSC06345.JPG&hash=8aa217c188df6c2f5474064e782ed3e4010b9d13)
That is a sending unit for the temp gauge not a alarm stat
Clifford,
I disconnected three wires. One on each of the stat sensors (those photos indicate two different stats) and another wire that you can see in the second stat photo (it's hanging loose to the right of the photo). One of those must have been the alarm stat shutdown wire right??? ???
All the 1 post Kysor alarmstat I have been around have a 1in+ body hard to tell from your photos but you can start the engine and ground 1 wire and it should shut the engine down if it is a alarmstat
good luck
Did you experiance a major loss of power accompanyed by a significant amout of additional black smoke when that exhaust flange let loose?
Quote from: Joe Camper on November 02, 2011, 08:35:59 AM
Did you experiance a major loss of power accompanyed by a significant amout of additional black smoke when that exhaust flange let loose?
No...none of the above...I drove it that way for 200 miles...why would it have done that?
Cliff I'll try that to determine which wire is the alarmstat...thanks for the advice.
It won't lose power or smoke if it comes off on that side of the turbo it probably gained a little lol
good luck
In stock trim, in this vintage, these engines will have three of these temperature measuring devices, with one wire each.
An alarmstat in each thermostat housing, which will ground if the magic temp is reached, triggering the hot engine light, and the auto shutdown, if so equipped, and one side will have a second sensor that is connected to the dash temperature gauge.
Often, a busnut will make provision to install the second sensor for another temp gauge in the off side, to monitor the temp out of each bank. Why? Well, because we like to know these things....
Whether that pipe break influenced the temp sensors, well, maybe not... it will definitely have made the whole engine room hotter generally.
It would not be a bad thing to swap the alarmstats out for new ones and call it preventive maintenance? Consider pulling fresh wires for them...
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Good good info...I love good info. Thanks so much you guys...this is excellent thinking fodder for me...
MCI sure complicates their electronics Eagle uses a 3 wire alarmstat so easy to find a problem ,you MCI guys seem be always chasing the electrical demon lol
good luck