I know this has been covered before, but would it be better cost wise to buy an already converted coach in good shape for 14k or buy a bus for 5k and do it yourself
the converted one looks in really good shape in pictures but I would go look in person first
Tough Question. Depends on quality of components you require or desire and what owner used. Set down and make a basic budget of your desires and requirements. Make allowances for each category. Plumbing-Electrical-Heat-Aircond-Generator- Also remember a used converted coach has used components.. Basic cost to consider plumbing-2 tanks(sewer) 1 fresh water tank-water pump-hot water heater.toilet Basic $1,000 Electric basic boxes wireing shore cords. lighting $1000 budget. Gen set $2000. min Cook stove and refrig (elect apartment) $800. 2 Ac units $1200. Basic Cabinets $600. Shower stall $400. Bed & other misc furniture $1000. Flooring basic $400. Misc curtains ,slideing doors, ceiling covering ,insulation,tv could equal another $1000 easy. Lots of work and time. pride of doing it your self and your way priceless. So it is your choice. If you find one already done that turns your crank Jump on it!!!!! All the # $ I mentioned are on the low side but can be done. A $5000 40 ft bus with old tires can easily cost you a Tire shop bill or $5000 for new tires so you must be wise in your purchase. If tires are more than 5 yrs old plan on replacing them in the next 3 to 5 yrs at the most. no matter what they look like! They have dates stamped on them. Keep asking Questions.
This has been covered many times lately. In today's market you can probably get real good deals from someone needing the money and needing to get rid of there motorhome or converted bus. Spend $5 grand and you will spend a lot more to get in your way. $14 grand can be good or bad depending on what it needs. If I could do it again I would probably buy already converted and make modifications to my liking. I am in to mine so far that if I sold I would loose a ton of money, so I keep plugging on knowing that I am doing it to my liking. It's your decision, nobody can make it for you. Good Luck.
This seems to be a no brainer as far as dollars are concerned buy the converted coach. What do you like? What do you want to have pride in? How much do you plan to change the already converted coach? All these things need to be considered. What do you want? What can you afford? I bought mine for $6500 seated and have spent near $30,000 and I am not done.
John
I bought mine already converted because it had the drive train and amenities that I wanted---and we're still working on it 5 years later LOL ;D
Will
If you want to do a do over, go for that. As long as all the mechanical and electrical stuff is good.
I think in the current market you can get a fantastic deal on a converted bus. If I were in your shoes having 14k to spend, I would set 10k aside to buy and bus and use the 4k for any repairs of update. Make a list of what you want in a bus. When looking to spend 10k, I would search for buses priced anywhere from 5k to 25k. You will be suprized what you can find.
Personally, I think the best person to buy from is a seasoned busnut.
There are so many buses out there right now for sale that you can sit and wait for an older professional conversion to come a long which should eliminate the chance of getting a hack job.
Patience is the key. It might sound unbelievable, but if you have cold hard cash in your hand, you can get a better deal than you might even think is possible. I'm talking something around a dime on the dollar (vs. build cost) if you wait like a vulture.
Marc
I am very mechanically inclined, and doing a conversion doesnt scare me in the least. I bought a "band Bus" 75 MCI 5 and gutted it, plan to "roll my own".
But with the way the market keeps crashing, seeing whats happened in the last 6 months I would have not bought it. $10K will buy a lot more Bus than it would 6 months ago, like twice the Bus. Seriously, you could buy for $10K today, what was $20K or more just last spring. If you have $20K, you could be rolling like a darn King, driving something that was $100K just a year or so ago. Kind of a no brainer I would say.
Also concider this even if you are looking to lower end components and the converted components are "used" a used professionally converted coach will have been outfitted in the best of the best.
Replacement costs for those things are not budget items. The toilets a good headhunter or raritan macerate is north of 2000. The a/c units are heat pumps 1200 a piece or cruisair even more. Counters are Corion. You will not touch a Kabota 15 or 20 K turbocharged gen on air bags on a slide with an exhaust out the roof that's 5 gran Worth of stuff sitting on a create uninstalled.
You may not be budgeting for this high end stuff but will end up with it for less than the "new" low end stuff your planning on. Way less.
All that said, If I had unlimited time and money and the combined knowledge of this board I would do one myself in a heartbeat. ;)
You very prudently pulled the link if your serious. I remember a 4104 a 1960 I think that was a home conversion on e-bay recently posted here for like 2500 bucks. Lots of value in a buy like that.
Or that gorgeous CC converted Eagle that also just got snatched up. I assure you if you get one of the "already done" buses It will be in need of PLENTY to keep you busy for years to come.
So much of it will depend upon the quality of the conversion that was done, and the shape it is in today. And will also depend on your own skillets and tolerance for doing the work to convert a coach vs. fix someone else's conversion to meet your standards.
We followed the sage advice we were given here to look at as many buses as we could - even if we didn't think it was interesting. This was invaluable advice, as it taught us so much about the range of conversions that are out there, and we quickly learned what to look out for.
If you're considering a converted coach, start learning about everything from the mechanical, structural, carpentry, upholstery, plumbing, electrical, climate control, etc. - so that you know what you're looking at, and what will need to be fixed/upgraded/replaced down the road.
For us, buying a shell wasn't an option, as we needed something to move into day 1 that would be livable (we full time). So we spent a couple months traveling the country (via an Amtrak Rail Pass) looking at buses until one with good balance to be livable and allow us to work on it as we travel to make it truly ours. We bought ours for $8k (asking price was $12k), and have put at least that much into her in maintenance (we had to immediately replace tires & wheels, and just caught our bus up on 15 years of maintenance neglect). We're working on many other upgrades and remodeling projects too on the bus. But that was our plan and our budget from the start, as we're creating our ideal technomadic home on wheels - and knew we wouldn't find it already done our way anyway.
Also, as others have said above - just because someone is asking $14k, doesn't mean they won't take less. We bought our bus in June, and found that when talking with owners, many would take 50-75% of their asking price in this market. It's so sad to see that, but at the same time - don't assume that asking price is anywhere close to what you need to spend to get a nicely converted coach.
Best wishes!
- Cherie
My take on the bus part of this question is that the price you pay for the bus is irrelevant, it's the price you pay to make it and keep it safe and reliable that is all that matters. So just do the best you can to buy the best rolling chassis that you can possibly find. I feel that $5K buses - seated, shell or converted - are probably fool's gold for the most part, and are going to have expensive issues that will make the purchase price look measly. So I would take advantage of the market to buy the newest, best maintained bus that I possibly could.
On the conversion, I think that it depends mostly on your ideas and your perceptions. You aren't going to be buying a recent million dollar professional coach, so you are going to be looking at old pro conversions or recent amateur conversions in old buses. In both cases the quality is going to be suspect, because of age, lack of maintenance or poor workmanship. If you buy a shell or seated bus and start from scratch, budget accordingly. If you buy a completed coach, budget 50% of the cost of doing it from scratch for upgrades and personalizations. Plan that you will be replacing the fridge, the inverter, some of the plumbing, some of the electrical system. Look at the generator with suspicion.
I personally feel that you should plan that three years into the project you will have spent $20K or more no matter what route you take, on a "budget bus". And that is the low end.
Brian
We are on our second conversion. We were going to build the second bus, but came across a great buy on an Eagle. Our first conversion was a partially converted 4107 when we bought it. All the hard stuff was done and we still spent six months working every day to finish the interior. The rest was there. The new to us, Eagle was completely finished with a ready to go $425K professional conversion done in 1989. Have the receipts. We still have spent months "making it our way". When it comes to layout, they are all basically the same, front living area, then kitchen, then the bath, and then the bedroom. Doing it yourself isn't going to change that much. Interior changes are more like remodeling or redecorating. Changes to the plumbing and electrical are usually more like adding bells and whistles. We didn't really know what we would want in a conversion until after we had one for awhile. Then we started "making it our way" by adding those bells and whistles.
You are so much ahead by buying a good sound completed conversion and then remodeling. You will end up with a lot more for the same amount of money and get to use it years sooner. Another option is to find somebody's project that has all the hard work done, shell, plumbing and electrical systems, generator, air conditioners, etc. These items run a lot of money. Completing the interior is the cheaper part.
Don and Cary
1973 05 Eagle
GM4107
Neoplan AN340
We too have been looking for a bus but have decided to go the pre-converted route. We do have some 'needs' to sleep 6 so want bunks and figure adding a shower to an entertainer coach might be our best bet.
However, we have not found the 50-75% off people and have seen listings that have been on 1 year plus that will only budge a few thousand from an original price of 40K - but it might be the type of coach we are looking at. Also find lots of outdated listings (Tejas Coach for example) and have just not found what we need at the price we can pay.
We also considered building a conversion ourselves, but after looking at what you can get with a preconverted coach, it just made more sense. Our budget is about 25K (really is 30K but want to make sure we have 5K for tires and other minor expenses to pick one up). After looking at coaches for 5K, they seemed to just be taken out of service and the motors questionable.
Joe really hit on the big stuff. The things that make up the conversion, the generator, fridge, toilet, tanks, pumps, etc., on the top line stuff the parts are top line as well.
A can be made here, an outfitted rig, professional or otherwise, is worth much less than the sum of its parts. Our Bounder has a Kubota diesel liquid cooled gen. The reality is the Gen doesnt add any real value to the rig selling it, if I pull the gen and put in a cheapo its still just as valuable. But sitting on the ground that gen is worth $3K or more. If your building a conversion from scratch, no one is going to sell you a high end diesel gen for $500.
If you only have $5K or so to start, yeah, a shell is a good way to get going. But if you have $10K or more, look for one thats all done, and look nationwide. Expand your horizon. There are good helpful people here, many are willing to help a guy look at something. Dont be afraid to ask.
Funny, I was going to start the same thread a day or two ago.
I have very mixed emotions about buying a converted coach. This is especially true of a non-professional converted coach. Some folks do a great job of making the conversion look great, but cut a lot of corners in the process.
One of our group bought a coach for a very good value, but some of the wiring was done with extension cord buried in sprayed insulation. This is an invitation to fire, as the extension cord construction is only intended to be used when exposed to air cooling.
Some friends who full time in a great coach don't have an easy way to make coffee if they are not on the pole.
Self-converters often have to cut corners because of budget issues. This often means that they select systems that are compromised from what the buyer may want. Good examples are compromised battery bank capability, cheap inverter, marginal generator (capacity/quality), etc.
Then there are issues with code violations. The big one is electrical. I am not a "code cop", but some coaches have major problems such as not having the neutral and ground isolated. Some use some very marginal wiring practices.
The home builder typically does not document the conversion process. This is really important with the wiring.
Then there is the issue of second or third owner modifications. Those can be a real nightmare!!!
Unconverted buses can be inspected to some degree. Converted coaches have many things covered and can be a real challenge to inspect properly.
Then we have professional converted coaches that can have some major problems. We talked to a new owner of a coach that was converted for a football player. Looked like a great coach, but the front axle was something like 16K and the owner had two blowouts on the front on the way to a rally.
Sean and Louise bought a "professionally" converted coach and ended up making the decision that it needed to be gutted. They did a full new conversion.
Inspection of a converted coach must include a thorough value analysis that includes a list of updates (list should include: 1) must items and 2) wish list items) and how much each will cost (labor and parts).
My worst fear is that folks will be blinded by a slick looking coach that has a ton of problems.
So, would I buy a converted bus? Not sure. If I had the money, I would think about it, but my inspection would be extremely detailed and then I would add a pretty significant budget line item for "discovery of the unknown"
Jim
I am going to look at it weds.
It seems to have been professionally converted in 1984 and the pictures look good, has all the "right" stuff
6,000 miles on a rebuilt 871 Detroit Deisel.
New Tires!
New Transmission!
New Clutch!
New Aluminum Wheels
12.5 KW Perkins Diesel Generator
50 Amp Circuit
Espar Furnance
100 Gallon Fresh Water
100 Gallon Waste Water
Jenn-Aire Grill/Stove and oven (down drafted through floor)
2 Air Conditioners (not roof mounts)
2 Ceiling Vent Fans
2 Single Beds in the back with overhead storage and drawers
Full Bath includes Vanity
Ceramic toilet
Ceramic Tiled Shower
Nice size Hallway closet
I just need to find out what to look at on older MCI
it seems almost every bus out there for sale has a "recently rebuilt" engine. Without paperwork to back it up, treat it as if it were not rebuilt. A lot of people say "rebuilt" when it isn't in an effort to inflate the value.
The thing I would question is, Are you prepared to run the generator most of the time? If you do not have a power pole, you will have to run the generator to cook. I'm guessing the fridge is household also. Generators use a lot of fuel. Most parks will not let you run a generator all day. This may not be a problem depending on your use.
Maybe, someone can tell you the pros and cons on the standard transmission.
Don and Cary
1973 05 Eagle
GM 4107
Neoplan AN340
Cut off the part that says they have all the records going back to 1984 when it was converted
I've been asking myself the same questions. I'm drawn to a bus like a moth to a flame.
I even think it would be fun to have a seated bus. Don't ask me why. It goes back to the days when T.M.E.R.& L. was retiring the old look TDH's in Milwaukee. I really wanted a seated TDH but a friend talked me out of it just because it would have been hopelessly impractical.
When it comes to buying a bus and doing a conversion...well...
I'm 2/3 finished with a makeover on a Class A gasser so I'm familiar with working in an environment where nothing is square or straight or level. I know that it takes months to do what would take days in a house.
Then I read Jim Shepard's blog http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/busproject.htm (http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/busproject.htm)
Holy Cr*p!
I don't possess nearly the skills that Jim has had to bring to bear on his project.
My mind's right boss.
So...a converted bus is the only rational path that I could take if I'm ever to have a bus.
My question then becomes...what coaches / powertrains should be avoided? I realize that everything has it's goods and bads but by now the really inferior should be known.
I'm in no hurry...this could take a year...that's fine...I'm just starting out on this twisted path...the journey can be half the fun :~)
I have owned a 2 cycle Prevost and now own a Series 60 four cycle Prevost.
I had the Allison 5 speed, and now have the 6 speed. In both cases the newer version was better. But do not interpret that to mean the older version engine or transmission was a show stopper or deal breaker. I have zero experience with other brands of bus. I do know that with today's market a buyer with cash can make a deal on a professionally converted Prevost for such a low price it would make someone wonder why anyone would convert their own. The low priced conversions are not going to be multiplexed wiring systems or the latest battery technology, but they are going to be of robust construction with ample generators, well designed electrical systems often with dual inverters, at least three AC systems and very detailed interiors. Some may even consider the coaches overdone, but it is impossible to ignore how much coach comes with so few dollars.
I consider my coach a work in process. It was not cheap because we bough it when the market was still vibrant, but slowly but surely we have given the coach our own personalities. But we are not busting the bank to do so because the basics are all there and they are well done. And we could use the coach from day one. I started with the chassis by redoing the brakes and suspension so from the beginning we were driving on a virtually new coach. Now routine maintenance keeps it like new and reliable. So then our efforts focussed on the interior and slowly but surely, one area at a time we are gutting and redoing it. There is no way anyone can build a coach like mine, to the same level of quality with the features we have for the current market price of my coach. If the market was not in the toilet like it is now that might not be true, but it is in the toilet and there are a lot of coaches out there whose true value is significantly lower than the purchase price for a buyer with cash.