I am in the beginning stages of wanting to convert a bus. I have had many regular class a motorhomes in the last 5-7 years that I have purchased and fixed up and remodeled... It is now time to move on to something bigger... :)
I have been looking online at busses for sale and have seen quite a few on craigslist. In the past I always wanted a Prevost... Never had a real reason why, probably more just because of their look, and always seeing the big movie stars in them.
My question is what are your guys thoughts on this? Is Prevost a good bus to convert, or is their something wrong with them... Are they usually more expensive and not worth the extra money?
If you had to do it all over again, what shell would you choose and why? (If it's not a prevost that's fine, just let me know why...) I am thinking around 10k for the shell... Is that enough?
For me... I am very big DIY person... I can do anything structurally and rebuilding to look nice and functional... I'm not as good at working on large engines, etc... Ie, a rebuild I would have to pay someone to do on a engine. But as for removing rust structure I am capable of removing and replacing, etc.
I appreciate your time, and I am looking forward to the excitement I am going to have through the next few years of building a coach.
You might want to first consider that it is by far cheaper in today's market to buy a bus already converted than to start one from scratch.
As to your question about brand of bus, all brands have a following and enthusiasts and all have pluses and minuses. . That's kind of a loaded question... like what's better, Ford or Chevy, Cadillac or Lincoln?
The best advice I can give is do tons and tons and tons of research, read a tons of old posts, ask questions, share links to buses you are considering and be patient. The right bus will find you. It took about a year and a half for me to find the right bus and I thank GOD that I didn't buy any of the first several I was ready to pull the trigger on!
Marc
They are all the same, yet no 2 are alike.
First, pick the look you want - then do your research on that bodystyle.
If you can't walk away with out looking back at it a couple of times . . . .
If you don't enjoy the thought "that's MINE" every time you see it . . . .
Once you get started on your conversion, there will be days when you question your choice to do this. If you love the look of your bus, then it will be much easier to KNOW why. 8)
All that said, after you do your research, get the best shell you can find for the money. The motor & trans are easier to replace than major rust & dents.
If you want your own interior - NOT someone else's, then don't pay any extra for the interior you don't want.
If you could be happy with a 'standard floorplan', then don't be afraid to pay extra when you find the one that is just right.
Good lock & welcome to the insanity!
I think the first question to know the answer to, is where your planning to go. If your not planning tight back roads and out of the way camping areas, size probably wont matter much. But with our 32 foot Bounder, I have gone places where any longer rig, or a rig with not as tight of a turning radius would have been more trouble or impossible. So I knew right off I did NOT want a Bus any longer than 35 feet, for those very reasons. And ill tell you true, no 35 foot bus turns anywhere near as tight as our Bounder, so ive already somewhat compromised myself moving up to a Bus, and I now have to reconsider areas I could get into before. So dont fool yourself, the Rock Stars cant go where I can go with that Bounder, nor can they go where any 35 foot Bus can.
The second question for me was fuel economy. Yeah I know, its a Bus, whats the point. The point is many of the 35 footers with a manual gearbox and highway gearing can actually achieve 10 mpg, and some claim a titch more, but in a 45 footer with a big turbo automatic and oak and granite all over, 5 mpg is likely the best youll ever see. So for me, the "possibility" of 10 mpg plus looked a lot better than the virtual likelyhood of 5 mpg, as the old Crystal Ball tells me $4 gallon fuel may look cheap in a year or two. So while a 5 mpg difference may not seem much to some, it means a lot to me. And reading of so many Buses getting sold or parked because the owner cant afford to drive it, it must mean something to others as well. It means 500 more miles from 100 gallons of fuel, or savings $400 every 1000 miles. A 5 mpg difference means if I could ever go to Alaska, a trip of more than 10,000 miles could save me more than $4000 in projected fuel costs. Even half that much better would save more than $2000, which spends better in my wallet than someone elses.
I'm a 99% DIY type of guy and I still would buy something already converted with today's prices. You can then spend time on the "road worthy" aspect, change things to make it your bus and not have to deal with getting burned out and letting it sit when one already converted lets you enjoy it immediately. Just my worthless 2 cents.
I know that an already converted bus is less expensive. Notice I did not write cheap. My problem with already converted is who did the work and how was it done. What documentation is available? What is the mechanical condition? How much work was done on brakes, wheels, suspension? I have seen some nice interiors but the bus should not have been on the road.
Comments on manufacturers: Prevost parts are expensive compared to the equivalent form MCI, GM's are getting long in the tooth (the last one was built in 1980) pretty much the only 35 foot coaches except the MCI 5's. Eagles are a nice coach but an almost complete orphan for some parts. And there are serious rust problems with some models.
Bus(es) of my choice: 35 foot - PD4106, 07, 08. Almost all a stick shift with DD 8V71. 8-9 MPG. MCI 5 series. Stick and DD 8V71
40 foot - MC9, 102A3 through C3.
My $0.02
Bill
Differant strokes::: As you can see I like Prevost. As far as parts most are the same as others as most coaches share common parts. Specialized parts you pay for! Windshields on sale 179$ Air bags $143. Shocks 42$ includes shipping usually next day service. So what is expensive?I just bought these parts.Service and tech support is the best! They have a frame. Many buses don't. In the end all have advantages. I'm building a 45ft coach now. with a 60 series 10sp autoshift and hoping to approach 9 mile to a gallon. The 89 8v92 gets a little over 5. In the end.....What turns you on?? Be it a school bus or a neoplan do it your way. That is what is great about this hobby. Bob
Kyle, "They are all the same, yet no two are alike". Took me a few years to learn it,....but that is what i say about women. ;D
Eagle's are getting to be a rare bird but sure are intresting. Would think they would be the most expensive build now. Because of scarce specialized parts. I know they are available for the most part.Have just developed a true respect and admiration for them. Bob
Wow... You guys are amazing... My smile on my face after only a few hours of posting on here and seeing all these replies.
I have looked at buying a already converted bus, but the problem I have with that as a few of you mentioned about 1. having it done the way you want, and 2 knowing how the person did the conversion... ie the cheap way, or the right way.
I have no problem making this a few year build and doing an entire redo of the coach, as I do have a 30" Fleetwood now that I use about 3 weekends a month. So I will have this while working on my new bus.
Part of the fun for me will be redoing the coach, and allowing me some of that father son time with my dad, as ever since I was a kid my dad always said that he wanted to buy an old bus and convert it... although he never got around to actually pulling the trigger... I guess he started the bug back when I was just a little kid. (Thanks Dad...)
Right now, I am thinking about the MCI or Prevost... Where would you guys recommend looking for a shell? I have been looking on the usual places (craigslist and ebay...) What would you estimate for a shell with good motor tranny and not a rust bucket as for price on both brands? are they close and comparable? Am I way off for 10k on just the shell for a late 80's to early 90's?
I know its going to take thousands on redoing the coach, but that is why I plan to do it over a few years...
I appreciate you guys and this forum, it really is becoming addicting...
You should be able to find a solid shell for $10K or so. Nothing perfect, and probably older than the '90's. You will just have to start looking. MCI buses are a lot more plentiful than Prevosts, at least in the USA... And less expensive. MCI-9's have an excellent track record and are not known for rust issues. Plenty of guys here with MC-9's.
I am a huge Eagle fan but fwiw IMO the DL MCI is the best candidate for a conversion for the price do some serious shopping and you can find one in your price range and it will have a modern electronic engine (DD 60 series,Cummins or Cat) and transmission.
Great for tech support and parts and have a true frame like a Eagle if you are into slides a easy bus to do slides on only draw back to me they need a roof raise and most are smooth sided a very easy bus to work on compared to a Eagle or Prevost.
The school here has 2 I do work on they don't give many problems what few they have are minor they lost a series 60 at 361,000 miles has been the only major repair
good luck
For the DL MCI where would you look for this? I found some on ebay, but the cheapest is a 96 for $39,500... also, can you do a slide on it? (it's quite a bit out of my budget for the shell...)
For the MC-9 can you do a slide on it too? I remember reading somewhere that MCI's weren't good for doing slides... I could be mistaken. what engine would you go for if i did a MC-9? any years to stay away from?
Something to consider. If you do your own conversion from scratch it will likely cost you more than one that is already done. Mine was done but there are still plenty of things to work on. If you pick up a completed conversion it is ready for use and you can change things to suit your needs while you are able to use it. There are many here that have "steel tents" and are perfectly happy and just about everyone has a work in progress. Good luck with your search and look at as many as possible before you buy. Have it inspected so you don't end up with an expensive pile of scrap.
Quote from: JBerg85 on October 20, 2011, 07:57:34 PM
Part of the fun for me will be redoing the coach, and allowing me some of that father son time with my dad, as ever since I was a kid my dad always said that he wanted to buy an old bus and convert it... although he never got around to actually pulling the trigger... I guess he started the bug back when I was just a little kid. (Thanks Dad...)
Thanks Dad is right. There are a lot worse things a man can do than own an old Bus. If your dad gave you the Bug, keep picking away at it. It made my Dad proud as all hell that I bought a Bus. Im just sorry he never got to play co-pilot again after we got it home. Dad always used to talk about Greyhounds running out west, and how hard they were to hang with. He said out into Nevada out of Salt Lake City, in the 1950's they would roll 100 mph and you just couldnt catch them.
Mr Berg -
As others have stated, buy a coach that's already converted, you'll be SO much further in the game than starting from scratch. The market's so depressed right now, some folk have taken to simply scrapping their conversion because they can get more for the parts than the whole. Thus, it's definitely a buyer's market!
Marathon, Liberty, Angola and Custom Coach are four of the major conversion companies, any of which would include a well-built interior.
Some are more rolling pimpmobiles than others (depending on your taste), but that can be changed.
If you don't get the fever so bad that you cannot walk away from a prospect, you just might find a gem that's almost perfect for what you want.
Be aware that the majority of conversions are designed to seat six, dine four and sleep two. Conceptually, the majority are also laid out the same: living room, galley, head, bedroom. Just like the stick n' staple Class A's.
If you need to sleep 6, 8, 9 or more, then you need to look at "entertainer" models. However, most have been run hard, some put away wet. They also frequently do not have on-board showers, and only a minimal galley - it's all taken up with bunks. Again, these can be remodeled to suit - still at substantial savings vs starting with a steel tent.
Altho slide-outs are the big rage nowadays, on an older coach chassis, they can be very problematic.
Continue educating yourself. Besides this message board, there's also BNO (busnut.com) as well as numerous Yahoo Groups dedicated to the various makes for additional info.
As Paul said earlier, decide what you want to DO with the coach, to help guide your decision.
Good luck with your search, and welcome to the incurable madness of busnutitis!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Everyone is making suggestions, but nobody has asked the first and most imoportant question.
How much are you prepared to spend. If you convert your own and intend to do it "right" you have the cost of the shell, plus all the components required to create a motorhome. Unless you are incredibly lucky or an astute buyer you will spend serious dollars for quality components ranging from generators, tanks, inverters, interior materials, etc. That stuff adds up fast.
Once you have established your amount of dollars I think the answer to what to buy will become very clear. There are some very cheap older conversions on the market, professionally done by quality converters that cannot be duplicated for twice the price. Starting with a shell and doing your own conversion may cost more.
Quote from: JBerg85 on October 20, 2011, 09:14:03 PM
I remember reading somewhere that MCI's weren't good for doing slides... I could be mistaken. what engine would you go for if i did a MC-9? any years to stay away from?
After seeing a few bad accidents posted here, and some ive seen elsewhere, I dont want a slide. A Bus can be hard enough to survive in a bad accident without having a slide parked behind the driver to get squished into. And Buses were never designed for them, most have no real frame. In the majority of Buses, the outer skin riveted to steel ribs creates a monococque shell like an airplane fuselage. Sort of like an egg shell. The big stick and staple RV's have a heavy truck frame which is what is supporting the slide, but in a wreck a S&S is the last thing you want to be in, their like a house of cards, litteraly. Some of the big name converters that built Buses into RV's, actually added additional structural members to support slides, and it was all well engineered. I wouldnt say a smart guy couldnt do it, but it would be quite an undertaking.
The older MCI's are not a very good candidate for slides but people do it nether was Prevost but it was done the MCI DL has a frame you remove the skin and they are a tube frame just like a Eagle ,Vanhool,Setra or H series Prevost nice buses IMO
good luck
Thanks for all of your comments...
To reply to your question prevosman:
Part of the thrill for me will be redoing the bus rather than just going and buying a already converted one. I expect over a 3-4 years build to spend somewhere in the ballpark of 50-60k, so I had budgeted around 10k for the shell... what are your thoughts here?
The good thing is, I a already have a 2001 30" fleetwood that I can use which will not put a strain on having to get the bus done for a certain time.
Also a little background... although My dad and I never got around to buying a bus and converting it (which he always said he wanted to do)... When I was in my teens my pops and I rebuilt and restored cars for fun... (1964 American Lafrance Fire Truck (which later appeared in a few movies, one of them being passenger 57 with Wesley Snipes), 1930 Model A Huckster, 1972 Corvette Stingray, 1967 Oldsmobile Toronado, 1962 Cadillac Ambulance, 1973 Mercedes 430SL, and a 1965 Ford Ranchero)...
The reason I mention the above... We didn't restore them to make money or because it wouldn't be cheaper to buy from someone else already done... We restored them by working on them nights, weekends, etc because it was something we both enjoyed and made good "father son time". It also allowed us something to keep us busy... Some people need tv, internet, well mine is working on a project...
Thanks again everyone for your comments... let them keep on coming.
With that kind of budget, which is quite respectable, I would get a later model bus with a 4 stroke engine and computer controlled auto trans. I would probably stay away from some of the later MCI's - the experts here on those models can tell you why, but it comes down to overly complex control systems that are hard to keep working. My ideal bus would probably be a late 90's, early 2000's Prevost. I like the way they look. But you are probably looking at an early - mid 90's bus shell for your 10K. A southern bus would be the best, for corrosion issues would be less.
Brian
Prevost are good buses I don't care for the 1996 to 2002 models they have a few problems, for the money a MCI 9 is a hard bus to beat IMO and do not overlook a Newell they are as good as any bus ever built
good luck
This has been a nice thread to read. We have been looking for a bus for about 2 years now. I would really like to get a Prevost, but many are so expensive, we have focused on an MCI-9 (I like the construction of their frames). Have tried to purchase a couple and were either talked out of it by people on this board (seems someone always knows the coach) or the seller has pulled out.
We have 5 kids (don't ask) so we decided to go down the entertainer coach path. As someone mentioned, the problem is most do not have full baths. Our goal is to be able to take the kids places that they would not be able to see otherwise so we really want something already converted. I figure the time we spend on the road visiting places will be valuable time with the kids, someday, when we find the coach.
Still looking..
When I first started looking for a shell, I was convinced I wanted an MCI-9. I'd driven them years ago and totally fell in love with the ride, handling, and dependably. As my search progressed, I began to find some nice MCI-102 models for about the same as the MCI-9s. The 102 models began to grow on me. I like that I could turn the bed sideways and use the depression over the engine for the closet. Much more closet space and a more spacious layout.
I ended up getting a 102-A3 with a rust free body, and a brand new engine/trans for $14,000. The new engine will outlast my lifetime of use, and still be going strong. The work of gutting seats, pulling windows, skinning the sides, etc. has been a significant labor, but a labor of love just the same. Nothing a person with basic skills can't handle. We're getting the spray foam done (hopefully today) and that's the first project I've needed to hire out.
The 102-C3 has a higher roof, so that would be a plus, but the 102-A3 is more than enough for me. We have roof-top units and I'm a full 6' tall and there isn't anything within less than 2" of my head. Most areas I have 3" or 4". More head room up front, and less in the rear - but still more than ample.
The newer engines are pretty cool, and the gas mileage is certainly appealing, but I found those were always out of my price range - unless they were getting really old. But you'll be hard put to find an engine more rock-solid dependable than these old Detroit Diesels. I wanted something I didn't have to think about or worry about. I want to get in and drive. I know there will be issues, but hopefully not major engine issues.
If you like the newer "square" rear caps with the louvered air intake, I have the full fiberglass set from R&M fiberglass listed on this forum for sale. I happen to like the look of the MCI-102 just the way it is.
Enjoy your search. Look at as many as you can. Drive as many as you can. Then, jump in the deep end of the pool. This is fun!
Dave
Quote from: Tikvah on October 21, 2011, 09:02:10 AM
I ended up getting a 102-A3 with a rust free body, and a brand new engine/trans for $14,000.
Do you have a blog or anywhere of pictures of yours and what you have done so far?
I don't have a blog, but I should start one.
Here is a link to a bunch of pics:
https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/31679284/1/Coach%20Project?h=9fcb66 (https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/31679284/1/Coach%20Project?h=9fcb66)
Quote from: Tikvah on October 21, 2011, 09:11:51 AM
I don't have a blog, but I should start one.
You sure should make a blog... Looks like you are doing a great job on your bus... What year is your MCI, and where did you find it?
The bus is a 1989 MCI-102 A3.
I bought it near Denver, CO in March of this year. We live in Northern Michigan, near the Mackinaw Bridge.
We flew to Denver, and road an airport van from there. The company I bought the bus from runs vans for the airport (also limos, 30-some coaches, etc.), so that part was easy. They just told me who to find and I got a very long free ride.
The bus had been used as a tour coach its whole life. The company has a very large fleet of coaches. He had upgraded his entire fleet of coaches to Setras and this was his last MCI. I don't remember why he said they began making the changes, but it made sense financially. This bus had become the owner's personal party bus. It was decked out with lots of options, and even had a full leather interior, couches, oak cabinets, etc. I remember him saying that this old MCI handles and rides better than his new Setras, but they are better on fuel and cost less to buy.
This bus had a smokey engine when he was thinking about selling it. In his maintenance garage, they had a brand new crate engine from Detroit Diesel (6V92TA) that would never be used in the Setras. The engine alone is worth more than the coach. So, he had his guys install the new engine before he sold his bus. He purchased a brand new Prevost conversion coach for his personal party bus. It has all the bling you could ever imagine, but you could tell he had a hard time seeing his old red bus leave the lot.
We began the long drive home from Denver to northern Michigan. Everything went really well for the first two days. On the evening of the third day we got into a construction zone on I-90 someplace in IL. The construction zone forced us over on to the opposite size of the expressway separated by those concrete barriers. So, we're driving along with a concrete barrier on our left, and nothing on our right, not even a shoulder, just a drop off. My wife says "this would be a terrible place for someone to break down, there isn't even anywhere to pull off"... about thirty seconds later my engine shut off. I had no idea why. So, here we sat, in the middle of I-90, blocking everything moving eastbound. After about five minutes I got the motor to start again, and moved it a short distance further, to a "emergency pull-off". This was a shoulder that barely allowed others to pass. Trucks were slowing to a crawl to clear my mirrors. The engine quit, and we were done.
Turns out the problem was small, but in the dark, now knowing what the problem really was, plus being in a very dangerous place on the highway, we just called for a tow truck. Cost me $875.00 for the tow truck to move me about four miles. But, they earned every penny. It was dark, dangerous, and a lot of work. The had to disconnect the drive-shaft under a bus that was now too low to the ground to get under the bus. They had to hook up their air system to mine to get the brakes released. Then tow slow and hard down a very busy, backed-up expressway.
Turns out there is a air cylinder that tightens the fans as the engine warms up. That air cylinder pushes up on a bracket, that engages the belt and starts the fans. The bracket just decided that today was the day to break and released the fan belt. So, the engine was simply trying to overheat. The safety on the MCI shuts the engine down before risking any damage to the engine. Small fluke, easy fix, but frustrating just the same.
We spent three days in Peru, IL waiting for a replacement air tank from MCI. We found one tank had a air leak from a rusted pin hole. We had noticed it wouldn't hold air long. So it was worth getting it fixed while we had it in the shop. All things considered, the trip went very well. We were so excited to be driving our new coach that the problems didn't bother us too much.
We didn't know about this forum then, I wish we had. There might have been a bus-nut around who could have helped. Maybe we would have even found a coach closer to home. But, life is an adventure, and the wife and I are always game for a new adventure.
Dave
Thank you so much everyone... Do you guys have any tips on where to find a shell? What sites are listing them, etc. I am in Florida, but willing to travel for the right bus.
Jason
Ck out ABC bus in your own back yard. They have web site but many not listed on yard. Bob
I know a guy who would sell you a nice eagle shell with low miles for the right price ;D Its in Indiana.
Quote from: JBerg85 on October 21, 2011, 05:31:55 PM
I am in Florida
Jason -Horizon Coach in Arcadia would be well worth the two hour drive to see a bunch of conversion coaches. They've also been a strong supporter of the big winter bus rally held in Arcadia over New Year's weekend. Nice folk.
There are several busnuts in FL, several of whom frequent this forum, as well as the BBS @ www.busnut.com (http://www.busnut.com). They have a good handle on who to see and who not to see.
Oh, and caveat emptor: Sam Walker. Google his name including "bus" and you'll see what I mean.
For $50-60K, you can buy one hell of a coach right now from a distressed seller!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Quote from: JBerg85 on October 21, 2011, 05:31:55 PM
Thank you so much everyone... Do you guys have any tips on where to find a shell? What sites are listing them, etc. I am in Florida, but willing to travel for the right bus.
Jason
Jason,
I'd do a Craigslist search. There's always a bunch of buses for sale in FL. This one has potential:
http://orlando.craigslist.org/for/2656387505.html (http://orlando.craigslist.org/for/2656387505.html)
Bob
Quote from: wildbob24 on October 21, 2011, 08:11:23 PM
I'd do a Craigslist search. There's always a bunch of buses for sale in FL. This one has potential:
http://orlando.craigslist.org/for/2656387505.html (http://orlando.craigslist.org/for/2656387505.html)
Hey Bob,
I went and looked at this coach today... Guy went down to 4k on the price. Said it used to be owned by a Church, and he bought it about a year ago. He pulled out the seats, restroom, and over head units. It had the auxiliary ac in the back that worked. started and ran good... He already has the title as MH. He is a bus driver for the local Lynx here in Orlando, and is moving so wants to get rid of it.
It seams like a great deal, but this is the first one I have looked at and I am just scared to jump in on the first one I look at. I feel I need to (as many have said) look at 10-15 before buying one so I know exactly what I'm looking for... and... To be honest, in the back of my mind I still want a prevost...
So everyone on here... Do you guys think it is possible to get a Prevost at least a 85 for under 10k for a shell and good motor, etc? or am i dreaming?
Was this a good deal for 4k? whats your guys thoughts?
Thanks again everyone...
Jason,
Assuming the MCI doesn't need any major repairs, I'd consider that a very good deal. However, if your heart is set on a French bus, you might want to take a little trip and look at this one:
http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/cto/2650453359.html (http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/cto/2650453359.html)
Most Prevosts I've seen in your price range need major work, like an engine or transmission overhaul.
Bob
not a bad looker. And you would be in it at scrap value if it were junk. They don't come much cheaper running.
Hey Bob,
What do you think I'm looking at price wise to get a late 80's to early 90's provost body style like your 89 just as a shell?
I know this one is a good deal, but its the MCI, and like yourself, I just love the look of the Prevosts...
Jason
I think Fred got his mid 80's in the 10 Grand range from a tour operator that is out of Sebring with a office in Ocola Can't remember name now. But had all records with it. He is a board member and goes by Pete359EX . Maybe he will see this. I know they are phasing out their older prevost.
Thanks Bob.. also BTW nice job on your slides, I just saw the pictures... When I find my shell, I hope you don't mind but I will be looking to you for advice... :) You seam to be about pro at it now... I am also, like your 89 wanting to do 2 slides on the drivers side...
Never a pro just charging blindly into the unknown not knowing I couldn't do it. Do it your way . Good luck. Bob
That Tampa Prevost is an ex-Border Patrol coach.
School bus seats and a cage to keep the animals at bay.
Often run hard, put away semi-wet.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)