New trailer has brake, tail, and turn signals all in one light. My bus, a 92 h3-40 prevost has independent brake and independent turn signals. I can get running lights and turn signals on trailer but no brake lights.
Previously someone else installed a Hopkins convertor. It went bad and I installed another. It to went bad so yet another but a mechanic installed this one and before I got home it was melted.
Today I bought yet another one and decided to start from scratch and ti find pout exactly what I was dealing with. Pretty simple install With not so good instructions and results have a lot to be desired.
Anyway, I'm back to square one with just running lights and turn signals on trailer and no brake lights. I noticed the converter was getting hot and this is wired at the same location as before.
Doing some prior testing with engine in bus running, aired up, parking brake released and foot pedal applied, I started probing wires that are obviously going to the brake lights on the bus. The tester lights. Taking got of the brake pedal, turns tester light off. So more I figure I have the right wire to tap into! Not so!
So here I am, asking your advice. What am I missing!
I know a lot of trailers are being pulled by buses with independent lights. How?
Thanks....before it goes up in smoke!
Ace
What about Gumpy's converter. I built one and it has been working for four years now with only one blown relay due to a short in the wiring
I'm with Jerry done it twice on two differant coaches. last one the 89 prevost. Bob
This comes up frequently. The last one was only a week or two ago:
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=21827.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=21827.0)
Here is a copy of my reply to on that thread:
QuoteThis subject comes up every once in a while and always starts out: I am leaving tomorrow and I need a trailer connection that will convert a 5 wire system to 4 wire system and 24V to 12V :o :o It always seems to get overlooked until the last minute.
In the March 2009 my article on the subject was published. It contains quite a bit of detail of what is involved in doing the job correctly - at least in the opinion of Sean Welsh, Craig Shepard, Jack Conrad, and myself. I present the best of all those folk's designs in the article. More importantly, I list sources for the relays (including 24 volt).
For those of you who plan to tow and want to plan ahead, contact BCM and get a copy of the magazine.
Jim
As I read my post, it sounded a bit uppity. I did not mean it to be. Ace, at least you are ahead of the game and not leaving tomorrow ;D
The commercial 5 to 4 conversion products typically have very short lives. Using relays makes a very robust system.
Jim
Ace, i think Susan put the garbage can on your head and you just can't see the solution. I'm surprised with all you've done, this simple lighting thing has you under a can :D.
Go to Walmart, take some pics, Re-read Jim's post, pop some kettle-korn and relax. Then later, hook it up, try it out, then take Susan to Walmart and wait for a chance to pop the can trick again.
It's all fun. See you in December.
Ok ive read your replies and thank you but, after reading the detailed description on gimps site, and the most recent post regarding this, they tend to mention converting 24v to 12v. This is not what I'm trying to do. My bus is 12v at the rear lights and so is my trailer. The issue is independent lighting on the bus to combined lighting on the trailer.
Do I still need all that is mentioned in gumpys article or is there a simpler solution?
Tom, that game is over. They now have clear buckets. Someone else must have complained! As for kettle corn? Possibly next Friday night but Dont tell anyone. I've been labeled as a Carny over at I@ns board for doing it.
Oh and Jim, although this may have been discussed recently, a lot of post go UN read by me since I don't frequent the boards regularly.
I vote for using relays... This is how I wired my bus, I have had no problems with it yet. I always have a trailer behind me or the toad.
I read here someware about two weeks ago, someone said there just aren't enough pictures on this forum. So here is a pic of how I wired mine.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1197.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa439%2Fseayfam%2Fbrakewiring002.jpg&hash=64f82ff6ac942c62e84859aa00cabcb2139080dd)
Ace, sorry about the clear buckets and losing the fun you had with Susan. Give her my condolences.
you have 12V? So do I. i just hooked a separate set of magnetic lights to my van. Did it by using a connector block where i spliced in the turn signal, lights and brake lights to a 4 wire that goes back to the mag lights. when i turn on the turn signals or warnings, they flash. when i turn on the lights, they are there, but not as bright as when the brakes or turn signals are on. No converter to melt. mine went to defect hell also. this seems to work. i gave up on connecting separate lights, and i don't like messing with the existing van lights that work until i touched them, so the extra $30 for separate magnetic lights works for me.
i can see them in the camera, so i know they are working, another benefit.
Hi Ace,
It sounds to me that you just need a tail light Converter which is sold almost everywhere.
This converter will combine your seprate turn signal/break lights together for trailer use.
You also need to run a seprate trailer break wire from a break controler.
Give me a call if you need to.
Nick-
Quote from: Ace on October 17, 2011, 07:09:31 PM
Ok ive read your replies and thank you but, after reading the detailed description on gimps site, and the most recent post regarding this, they tend to mention converting 24v to 12v. This is not what I'm trying to do. My bus is 12v at the rear lights and so is my trailer. The issue is independent lighting on the bus to combined lighting on the trailer.
Do I still need all that is mentioned in gumpys article or is there a simpler solution?
................
The converters you have already tried use diodes to isolate the brake from the signal on the bus side. You've already proved those systems don't work so what the guys are saying is that relays are the way to go. It may look complicated but you're just driving four normally open switches with input from the signal lights, the brake lights and the clearance lights. The difference from the converters you have been trying to use is that the relays should be more robust. I'm not sure why the converters aren't working for you - about the only reason I can think of would be that your trailer has a particularly heavy draw which is exceeding what the converter is capable of passing.
Ace,
Also, I don't think you need to worry about trailer brakes.
I tow my 16' enclosed trailer to the track a couple times a month and my bus don't even know it's there.
Just make sure the break away is working for legal reasons..
Nick-
ACE just putin 12V relays in the curcuit and you got a converter that will do what you need I have done it both ways as when I had a 12 v rig I still used the relay system Jerry
"My way" is separate bulbs for tail, brake, and turn on the toad. But I'm starting from scratch and that's the way that works best for me. If somebody already has equipment that's 5/4, different story.
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on October 17, 2011, 07:46:55 PM
"My way" is separate bulbs for tail, brake, and turn on the toad. But I'm starting from scratch and that's the way that works best for me. If somebody already has equipment that's 5/4, different story.
The only problem with wiring it that way is... if you ever want to hook up to another trailer or toad, your going to have a problem. Wiring relays is really easy and you can go from 12v to 12v or you can go 24v to 12v really easy. I like to use relays and a good 7pin plug on the bus, then you can get any adapter you may need to go from your bus to any trailer or toad you may want to tow.
Quote from: Seayfam on October 17, 2011, 08:22:46 PM
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on October 17, 2011, 07:46:55 PM
"My way" is separate bulbs for tail, brake, and turn on the toad. But I'm starting from scratch and that's the way that works best for me. If somebody already has equipment that's 5/4, different story.
The only problem with wiring it that way is... if you ever want to hook up to another trailer or toad, your going to have a problem. Wiring relays is really easy and you can go from 12v to 12v or you can go 24v to 12v really easy. I like to use relays and a good 7pin plug on the bus, then you can get any adapter you may need to go from your bus to any trailer or toad you may want to tow.
Yes, but my bus, toad, car and trailer are all already 5/5. I *might* need to add something else (in fact, I'm already thinking about a little relay box, just for the unusual need) but it shouldn't be frequent.
Here is what I have found.
I had the same problem,and I used to carry spare converters and simply plug in a new one..which got me going but did not solve the problem.
After a few of these remedies I came to the conclusion that heat is the enemy, that and "cheap" converters, so I bought a better one and mounted it to a small hinged box tin that I drilled 5/16 holes (with stepped bit) into all of the sides, a heat disipater if you will. The converter also has an air space between the tin and itself.
It is an Altoids tin, which when opened can be sheet metal screwed to a surface, and with the horizontal hinge on top...close the box and motor on.
Works for me, about 6 years now.
My strong belief is that all trailers should be wired to be pulled by anything, which means 12 volt. Same with any tow vehicle, all trailer hookups on a tow vehicle should be 12 volt, with standard (common) trailer conections so you can, theoretically, pull anything.
All the cheap converter boxes are doing is taking the place of relays and diodes. If your drawing so much power your burning up converter boxes, your drawing more power than they can handle. I know some have all the running lights on their towed, all I run was tail lights. Less lights means less current means cooler wires. And some lights are better than none.
What about switching the running/turnsignal/brake lights on the trailer to LED? My new trailer is all LED, but I did the switch on my last trailer just to get the brighter lights. Since they draw almost no current, maybe the converter will last longer.
Brian
Im thinking it might be easier to just change the lights in the trailer. Since I have four now, all red, and all four do the same thing, why couldn't I just replace two of them with amber turn signals that would be in dependent? Not only that, it would match the rear of my bus!
Its up to you what you do Ace but I can think of a couple of issues if you change the trailer. First off it will then be non-standard whenever you sell it for whatever that is worth. More importantly your bus still won't be rigged to pull any trailer except that particular one. And third you'll have to string an additional wire through the trailer to drive the additional lights. If you're looking for a fast simple solution I'd give Brian's LED idea a try. I prefer LEDs anyway.
That's exactly what I was thinking.
Ok my bus has been changed to leds that have independent turn. If I change the trailer to match, it too would be independent turn leds. I don't see changing trailers any time soon.
before you spend money, try disconnect one light on each side. Will reduce the brake/turn load by half and may let the converter work fine. I am not at all sure that amber turn signals on a trailer are legal.
edit. amber turn signals on the back are fine. http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/standards/conspicuity/trlrpstr.html (http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/standards/conspicuity/trlrpstr.html)
Brian
My bus has all 12 volt exterior lighting. I used a powered converter from Drawtite to handle the trailer lights. It must have some sort of relays as I can hear it clicking when the turn signals are on.
Brian do you have a part number?
Did you step down power when you went to led on your bus? or use existing voltage/amp wiring? Just curious have seem post in past where led didn't draw enough to make turn signals work? Bob
Quote from: Ace on October 18, 2011, 07:42:37 AM
Brian do you have a part number?
I forgot that the product is actually called a Modulite. The model I have is discontinued, but the closest replacement seems to be the model 119192.
The only problem I have had with mine is it quit when the temps were around 100 degrees and the the bus wasn't moving. As soon as I opened the engine door and it got a little air it started working again.
On the trailers I have built to tow with my bus (12V) I put in an extra light for the brakes. Makes it really simple. Yea, if you sell it it has to be changed but that is easy. And if you want to tow it with another vehicle that is not difficult either. I can't remember the specifics of it now but I have a trailer I tow with either the bus or my pickup and just plug them it. You accomodate the differences in the wiring.
Remember the heat...The only problem I have had with mine is it quit when the temps were around 100 degrees and the the bus wasn't moving. As soon as I opened the engine door and it got a little air it started working again.
http://www.drawtite-hitches.com/products/Heavy_Duty_Powered_Tail_Light_Converter__10_Amp_with_Circuit_Protection,52260 (http://www.drawtite-hitches.com/products/Heavy_Duty_Powered_Tail_Light_Converter__10_Amp_with_Circuit_Protection,52260)
if you notice the design of the case, it disipates heat better.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhfi-assets.kdsi.net%2Fproduct_img%2Fhighres%2F52260.jpg&hash=621d2ada7c476c2eafc868243ffe235cd348d6db)
or look here or look here or look here
http://www.drawtite-hitches.com/categories/ModuLite_Power_Modules,279 (http://www.drawtite-hitches.com/categories/ModuLite_Power_Modules,279)
The heat issue was a very unusual case. It usually isn't nearly 100 degrees at night. The unit worked fine when the bus was moving, but the problem started when we had to stop on the shoulder due to a hung brake. The heat inside the engine compartment combined with ambient temps was high enough to cause the unit to stop. Simply opening the engine compartment door was enough to revive it. It was fairly important to have trailer lights to be seen, but we also put out triangles.
I doubt we'll ever see this combination of circumstances again.
I assume you are talking about a "flat 4" trailer plug with yellow, green, brown and white wires. When you have seperate turn signals (yellow lenses) and brake lights you need a "flat 4" with a turn signal converter which adds an extra wire to hook to the signals...
After doing more research, I found that the cheap convertors found at most auto posts stores and Walmart are only rated at 2.1 amps. Probably good enough got a small open trailer or boat trailer but definitely not good enough for an enclosed trailer with added marker lights and fender lights.
I ordered a hd valley converter today. Its rated at 10 Amps per circuit and there are four circuits. I think that might work ok.
To add I also ordered matching led lights four the rear of the trailer and then was mentioning that two of the 17 I bought in 08 were always flickering. They gave me the direct number to Bargman. After calling and explaining to the woman of my custom install on the back of my bus, she said two new replacements were on their way and for me to just trash the flickering ones. Great service from both pplmotorhomes.com and Bargman.
The Valley hd convertor was found for around 40 bucks but ended up getting it from Amazon for 24.00 + 6 shipping.
I should have everything by the weekend and will update my results!
Thanks for the replies!