Well as we steam toward full timing starting December 9th. the thought has come to mind that we need to pull our car. it is a Toyota Matrix RX. The question is: Do we tow it with a dolly or do we put it on a car trailer?
Things to consider:
1. Because there is manual steering in our bus (1948 Silversides) backing anything up, trailer or dolly, is absolutely out of the question.
2. I would then have to unhook anything that was behind the bus, make my turn and then re-engage the car.
3. Jan is very, oh did I say VERY concerned about tire wear on the Matrix and feels it would be less expensive to pull it on a trailer.
(Rule #1: If momma ain't happy.........) you know what I mean
4. We have very limited storage space in the coach and we might be able to use some of the unused spaces on a trailer for tools, etc.
What do folks that have been out there think about this situation? Any imput will be deeply considered.
Dave Siegel
Dave, one thing missing off your things to consider list:
Is it towable four down?Richard
Quote from: Dave Siegel on October 13, 2006, 06:51:32 AM
Well as we steam toward full timing starting December 9th. the thought has come to mind that we need to pull our car. it is a Toyota Matrix RX. The question is: Do we tow it with a dolly or do we put it on a car trailer?
Things to consider:
1. Because there is manual steering in our bus (1948 Silversides) backing anything up, trailer or dolly, is absolutely out of the question.
2. I would then have to unhook anything that was behind the bus, make my turn and then re-engage the car.
3. Jan is very, oh did I say VERY concerned about tire wear on the Matrix and feels it would be less expensive to pull it on a trailer.
(Rule #1: If momma ain't happy.........) you know what I mean
4. We have very limited storage space in the coach and we might be able to use some of the unused spaces on a trailer for tools, etc.
What do folks that have been out there think about this situation? Any imput will be deeply considered.
Dave Siegel
Thank you that's a good question.
The Matrix has front wheel drive and no way that I know of to disconect the front end, so I assume that (at least the front) must be raised from the ground.
I guess that disallows four wheel down towing.
Dave
Not necessarily. One company makes front wheel disconnects.
The reason I asked is that you indicate you can not back up at all, so if you get in a tight spot, how are you going to unload a car off a trailer or dolly and then have to have a hitch on the car to move the trailer/dolly.
Believe me, a dolly or trailer is a very large PIA, and if you can avoid them you will be very thankful.
Richard
Quote from: Dave Siegel on October 13, 2006, 07:32:19 AM
Thank you that's a good question.
The Matrix has front wheel drive and no way that I know of to disconnect the front end, so I assume that (at least the front) must be raised from the ground.
I guess that disallows four wheel down towing.
Dave
It would be definitely less expensive to use, even the best tow bar, so how do I go about finding out if the Matrix can be towed four wheels down?
Dave
Dave, I am having a senior moment and I can not recall the name of the company that makes most of the tow bars, Oh yea, Blue OX? maybe. Anyhow that site has a list of cars that can be towed four down and for which they make adapters for.
Richard
Well, I can not find the list, but I know one is published. Hopefully some board member knows where it is.
Quote from: Dave Siegel on October 13, 2006, 07:44:42 AM
It would be definitely less expensive to use, even the best tow bar, so how do I go about finding out if the Matrix can be towed four wheels down?
Dave
Hi Dave,
Read this Faq. page from roadmaster [at the bottom]
Remco is the company that makes the disconnects
http://www.roadmasterinc.com/faq.html
Nick-
I made one extended trip thru the country with a tow dolly and when I got home I basically gave the tow dolly away since it had been such a PIA in my opinion.
I like the idea of no tow dolly since I do not have to worry about where to store it. LOL
Richard
For what it is worth, I have used a tow dollly and traveled coast to coast with no proablems. Also I like the idea that I can stow the dolly under the bus once I am where I need to be.
Good luck , Merle.
Here are a couple of places to look:
http://blueox.com/
http://www.demco-products.com/Pages/work.html
http://www.roadmaster-tow-bars.com/
http://www.motorhomemagazine.com/dinghytowingguide/2006/DinghyRatings_p20_28.pdf
Motorhome magazine lists all cars which are towable per the manufacturer.
The Toyota Matrix is not listed but the mechanically identical Pontiac Vibe is (with a standard transmission.
If it's a stick, it can be towed but not with Toyota's blessing
Len
Thanks Nick. This growing old is not all its cracked up to be. LOL
BTW the direct link to Remco is:
http://www.remcotowing.com/
Richard
Dave, I will make another suggestion. Make sure you get a tow bar that stays attached to the tow vehicle, not the toad.
Richard
Dave- highly recommend you pull with all four down. If you do use either a tow dolly or an additional trailer, that will all be extra weight, which with the already underpowered 6-71N will put you in a position of possibly not starting on a hill. If you can't get started on a hill, you can have your wife get in the car and give a helping push, if the car is all four down. Good Luck, TomC
DML,
Why is the tow bar that stays on the bus better than the tow bar that stays with the towed?
Thanks
If you can't get started on a hill, you can have your wife get in the car and give a helping push, if the car is all four down. Good Luck, TomC
Tom, Is this OK even if you dont have a tow car? ;)
Why the concern about tire wear on the Matrix? Auto tires are not that expensive and they should last 50 to 60 thousand miles with decent tires. Wear on the hubs, suspension, and such would be more of an issue.
I would be much more concerned about tire wear on the bus tires at $300 to $400 per tire.
According to remco towing, the Matrix is towable 4 down with a lube pump if it is the 130HP model. The 180HP model is not towable.
Brian Elfert
I did not like having to stow the tow bar anytime I used the toad or even unhooking it to move the toad. Just convenience more than anything else and not having the tow bar on the front of my Toyota pickup all the time.
Richard
Quote from: H3Jim on October 13, 2006, 08:19:31 AM
DML,
Why is the tow bar that stays on the bus better than the tow bar that stays with the towed?
Thanks
Also the tow bar on the front of the car is UGLY!!! You also will find that you bark your shins on it from time to time. Don't ask how I know this!
JimH
WOW! Looks like I piped into a conversation that appeals to lots of folks. I have to agree that I think it would be better to tow four wheel down. It seems like the kit to lube what ever it lubes is about $500-$600 plus labor.
Is Blue Ox the better of the hitches out there? I also remember seeing something about a "self Centering" hitch. Does that make it easier to hook up?
I also like the idea of not adding any more to the pulling weight than I have to. Like someone just above pointed out, our 671 isn't the meanest bear in the woods.
Dave Siegel
Dave,
Do a search here on Blue Ox. There were some posts about them awhile back. They're a top notch company and their customer service is first rate (I know, because one of the posts is mine ;) )
Craig
I have had every brand of tow bar out there I think and Blue Ox is one of the best with the best customer service that I have seen. I like the Aventa II 10,000lb class IV rating
I tend to agree with the appearance of the Blue Ox. But when I start adding up the prices it goes like this:
1: Tow Bar (From $499 Camping World Falcon) to ($799 Blue Ox)
2: Tow Brackets about $400
3: Lube Pump from Remco $649
3: Labor to install brackets $225
4: Labor to install lube pump $$200- $300
That suspiciously looks like $2400. Can that be right?
Dave Siegel
Dave,
Sounds like the price is in the neighborhood..... Unless you can do the install yourself.
I preferr the Roadmaster All Terrain tow bar because you can attach your car from any angle or uneven surfaces.
They also have the self alligning feature. and the towbar stores on the back of the motorhome.
Nick-
hi dave
if you get a tow dolly make sure it has brakes on it. the first one i had did not have brakes, and you could feel the toad trying to push you when stopping. i have one with brakes now and i can't hardly tell its behind me,make sure you have a camera to keep tabs on the toad. i was turning around and ran out of room and had to unhook everything,it was a pain, but only took a few min. to do it. read your owners manual, it will tell you if you can tow with the wheels down
good luck
Bernie
Four wheels down is the best way to go!!! You can hook and unhook your car a lot faster. I will not say it is cheaper because it is not, but better almost never is. Look at Roadmaster products it is nice stuff and the Remco pumps are bullet proof. If the dolly is looking good price wise go rent one from U-haul for a few days and try it. Keep in mind you will have to find a place for it when not in use.
I bought my Roadmaster Stowmaster on eBay brand new with brackets for $650. Installation should be easy for anyone converting thier own bus. I went with the Stowmaster (stows on the toad) because I tow the jeep with different vehicles, not just the bus. Each vehicle has a different hitch height so to compensate for that, I just use a different ball mount. With a motorhome mounted bar you can't do that.
Ross
and further confirmation of a bus nut, I don't want the tow bar ruining the lines of the beautiful bus. I'd rather have it on the towed.
My experiience: For a few years I loaded my sports cart on a tandem trailer. The result was zero damage to the car while towing but most campgrounds made me park the trailer in their parking lot and not on my site. I was pulling the trailer with a bus with manual steering and backing up was a cinch.
When I got a forty foot bus I was overlength so I bought a Toyota with manual transmission and towed four wheels down. I spent a lot of time at the car wash after every long trip getting the oil of the car and I had to replace a couple of park/signal lights in the front bumper that were hit by stones and gpt mumerous stone chips on the car front..I don't think there was any more wear and tear on the car than the same number of miles being driven. It was almost impossible to back up in a straight line and completely impossibe to back around a corner, even with a back-up camera.
If I was doing it again I would trailer an expensive sports car and tow four down with an ordinary car. There are many more options now for four down towing than when I started in 1979.
Stan, to back up a tow dolly I found impossible.
I did find that with a second person in the toad, four wheel down, I could back around a corner. Janet would sit in the Toyota, with it running so that she had power steering, and I would slowly back around in the Flying J parking lot so that I could get out. This was only when I was blocked in from the front.
I suspect I scrubbed some rubber off the front tires of the toad during this maneuver, but she did try and keep the wheels pointed in the direction we were going. At least I was able to get out without unloading the toad and then unhitching the dolly and manually moving it out of the way.
Richard
Quote from: Stan on October 13, 2006, 06:08:30 PM
My experience: For a few years I loaded my sports cart on a tandem trailer. The result was zero damage to the car while towing but most campgrounds made me park the trailer in their parking lot and not on my site. I was pulling the trailer with a bus with manual steering and backing up was a cinch.
When I got a forty foot bus I was overlength so I bought a Toyota with manual transmission and towed four wheels down. I spent a lot of time at the car wash after every long trip getting the oil of the car and I had to replace a couple of park/signal lights in the front bumper that were hit by stones and gpt mumerous stone chips on the car front..I don't think there was any more wear and tear on the car than the same number of miles being driven. It was almost impossible to back up in a straight line and completely impossibe to back around a corner, even with a back-up camera.
If I was doing it again I would trailer an expensive sports car and tow four down with an ordinary car. There are many more options now for four down towing than when I started in 1979.
My vote goes to the tow dolly. I tow a Blazer with front wheels down. On/off time is a couple of minutes. The dolly weighs less than 500 pounds and I carry a 6 foot 2x4 that I sometimes use to position the dolly if I have to back up.
-Rick Brown in Reno
We tow our Grand Cherokee 4 down (auto/4 wheel drive). We use a toad mounted Roadmaster towbar with "invisible" brackets. After unhitching, it only takes about 3 minutes to remove the rock guard, towbar, and quick conect brackets from the toad.
We made our rock guard by cutting down an old MC-9 cap and adding brackets to attach it to the tow bar bracxkets on the Grand Cherokee. This guard extends slightly past eaqch side of the taod as well as slighly above the hood and to the bottom of the air dam under the front bumper. This is our first trip using the rock guard and it has made a big difference. Jack
Dave, did you ever decide what to do? I'm curious how it worked out. One of the major reasons I bought my silversides is to be the tow rig for my antique cars and 4x4 projects. I will be using my 18 foot deck trailer to tow things behind. Just ran across this old post and was curious what your final decision was. Keith
i like my tow dollie, it is a demco which steers like the front of a car so no problems going around corners, i use the existing lights on the car and ran a plug to the front of the car, i can hook it all up in 5 minutes, i can drive 70 mph, never had a problem with it except a flat tire because the dollie had car tires on it instead of trailer tires. i have never had a problem leaving it hooked up in camp grounds , however it can easally be pushed up under the back of the bus which is 35 ft. everybody has there opinions but since ive never had a problem towing this way i think its a good way to go. The bus dont even know the car is back there. but i would recomend a rear camera so you can keep an eye on the car. you can have a flat on the car or dollie and not even know it , my two cents.
Frank Allen
4106
The only thing I can add to a tow dolly,is to make sure it has surge brakes. I think a dolly is the way to go.........Frank