Guys a funny thing happened this afternoon. My sister n law was over and for once showing some interest in the bus, and for once not being negative! I was so proud to show her how easily it would start. Mind you it looks terrible to the uninformed. She was shocked it would run! Well run it did. I only ran it a minute at the most. When I flipped the switch to shut it off, nothing! It kept right on running. Flipped the switch back and forth a couple times. Nothing. I left the switch in the off position. So without saying a word I cooly walked away with her, letting it run, talking as if nothing was wrong. No time to panic, things going well for a change! After a 20? seconds talking it finally shut off normally. I was really thankful it did, because my next step was to pitch a fit!
So, all this being said, what do I need to do when this happens again? I've read of skinner?? valves and things, but couldn't begin to tell ya what a skinner valve looks like. Only way I know to kill it short of springing the emergency shut off is to disconnect a line and let her run out of fuel. Time to get out my book on CD and start studying!
Boyce
It takes a minimum of air pressure to activate the shut down cylinder. That is why it didn't shut off after only a few seconds running, and why it did shut down after a little longer once it had built up enough pressure. You could shut it down if you had to, by moving the shut down lever by hand on the governor. You should make yourself familiar with the procedure.
JC
Nothing wrong it needed to build air pressure the skinner allows the air pressure to work to shut off
Rick 74MC-8
You have heard those old Scenicruisers will run for ever...
On mine, after I turn off the switch, I have to press a push-button swicth on the dash and slowly accelerate until it shuts off. Maybe mine doesn't have the Skinner valve...
Now that makes sense. It surely didn't run long enough to have any air pressure. This was the first time I have started it, and immediately tried to shut it off. Thanks guys!
I also need to go on a learning curve concerning my Bus and engine, get some books, etc. But AFAIR, my MC5B will shut down right after startup with zero air pressure. I assume mine shuts the fuel off electrically? Would that not be a good upgrade to an older Bus such as an old Scenic?
Some buses have a electric shutdown Paul, I like the all in one shutdown electric and air, no skinner valve the skinner valve is what requires the air pressure to open the all in one will shutdown with 5 lbs of air
good luck
You can always shut it down by manually turning the no-fuel lever on top of the governor, on a mechanical engine.
Brian
Folk's the Scenicruisers were a very good bus and still is.And most folks that have a MCI,Prevost or a Eagle and other makes have to realise when the Scenicruiser came out in 1954 most of the above buses were not in production as of yet.
It's hard to realise that after over 50 some odd years the Scenicruisers are still in demand and they are quite an attention getter.
Also a Scenicruiser in running condition will bring more money than a lot of the above later model coaches.
GMC and Greyhound had a winner! ;D
They sure didn't hang around long to be a winner lol,I have some records for those from GreyHound in Dallas the maintenance and upkeep was a little too expensive for GreyHound they are still a icon today anyway
good luck
I dont think anyone was finding fault with scenics, just a few questioning if an upgrade to a different fuel control setup wouldnt help modernise it a bit. I always thought they were cool, but far to large for what I need. Heck, I didnt even want a 40 footer.
FWIW the 8v71 was developed for the Scenic they ran the 8v71 in the test stages,I saw a Greyhound photo at Stewart and Stevenson of a 8v71 that was taken in 1956 a year before the 8v71 came on the market I think Cole has the photo
good luck
Quote from: bevans6 on October 10, 2011, 06:29:09 AM
You can always shut it down by manually turning the no-fuel lever on top of the governor, on a mechanical engine.
Brian
though this is true I wouldn't advise this method when the air is built up, You may lose some skin. don't ask me how I know this. lol.
Quote from: luvrbus on October 10, 2011, 10:49:41 AM
They sure didn't hang around long to be a winner.
Clifford -I think Tom McNally would heartily disagree with your comment!
The first Scenics went into service in 1954, and the last of them were finally sold off in the fall of 1977. That's 23 years of service, more than any other single coach model in the Blue Pooch's fleet before or since.
Even the workhorse MC-9s didn't survive over 10 - 15 years in 'Hound service. Any that you "see" today are actually MC-12s, and even they're virtually extinct now.
When you say "Greyhound Bus" to ANY baby boomer, the very first mental image that comes to mind is the Scenicruiser. Just like when you say "Trailways", people think of the Eagle. As a corporate image, next to the running dog, the Scenic IS Greyhound to a whole generation of folk. Even today, if a Scenic shows up at ANY transportation-related event, people will flock to see it.
After the miserable initial twin 4-71s were replaced with the 8V71, the coach earned it's keep, right till the very end. And often went on to many more years of service in second and third tier operators. Maybe the newer stuff was less expensive to operate, but the corporate PR value of the coach has never been matched - and THAT was priceless to Greyhound. (At least till the hot dog salesman took over. . . :'( )
Boyce -You learned something about your Scenic, didn't you! ;D
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
lol, amazing how threads evolve huh? All interesting though!
RJ,I was speaking of the production run 2 years then no more 1001 unit the MCI 6 was the only other dog with less of a run,Greyhound parked some of those Scenic's for awhile the twin 4-71 with the fluid drive was to expensive to keep going.
I bought a tandem 4-71 in Hobbs NM for friend that has a Scenic he is hell bent on installing it in his scenic why I have no idea, just for reference I cannot find where GH in Dallas ever serviced a 4501 after 1971
good luck
Luvrbus,
Could you provide me with your Scenic friend's contact info, or give him my info (below). I keep a registry of all surviving Scenics. I would like to see if I have his serial number and location on my list. Thanks, I apprecaite your help.
Tom McNally
Peoria, IL
PD4501-771
PD4501-1001
tbonemcnally@hotmail.com (309)253-2169
Tom, I have asked him 3 times for you and he keeps saying he will send it to you I know it a low serial number he has worked on that bus for years he bought the bus in 1982 from GrayLine.
I have some service records from Dallas I was going to make copies of and send those to Jack and Kyle I also had a original Scenic lapel pin but gave it to my friend I found out later that wasn't a smart move on my part lol
good luck
Thanks for your efforts. Please keep bugging him, maybe he'll get tired of being harrassed! He should contact me, as we as a group are now reproducing some of the difficult to locate parts for the Scenic....rubber window gaskets, all the impossible to find curved glass, rare body parts and castings. Your buddy may want to get in on some of these opportunities. Take care.
Tom
Clifford -
The last of the Scenics worked out of San Francisco, mostly on Div 4 commuter runs around the Bay Area.
Your comments that I responded to weren't clear to me as to what you were thinking when you wrote them. Thus, the direction my reply took.
As far as a production run, yes, only 1001 was small, especially compared to the 5,000+ 4104s and 9,000 plus MC-9s pumped out. (Even these numbers are not that large compared to transit production.) And trying to find parts for an MC-6 is more difficult than trying to find parts for a Loadside pickup.
The other odd fact about the Scenic was that it was also the "beginning of the end" of GL's relationship with GM. You mentioned the crazy dual-4 powerpack - that plus some structural issues on the early models - created a lot of finger-pointing between the two, which eventually led to the rise of MCI as the coach of choice for the Dog.
I remember reading somewhere, I think maybe in the late Bob Redden's IBC Scenic history, that the initial order was for 500 coaches. Their popularity encouraged GL to option another 500. But then the problems began, along with the finger-pointing. This caused GL to cancel the third and fourth options, which would have been another 1000 vehicles. By trying to bully GL, GMC ended up the loser. Tom or JLVickers might have more details, all my Scenic stuff is carefully packed in storage.
I get a big kick out of the fact Tom has managed to save PD4501-1001 from the scrapper, thanks to Fred Rayman. It not only is the "last" Scenicruiser, it is also the "first", as it was built as the prototype, with S/N EXP-321. It's also the only Scenic built with the escape door similar to the 4104s. Very unique piece of history!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
I guess those with a tandem 4-71 had a 2 speed axle I read on the service report they replaced a lot of electric shift motors and switches doesn't look like the torque converters lasted long either
good luck
No two speed axle!
But the Scenicruisers did have a High & Low range Hydroshift 3 speed transmission worked somewhat like The PD-4104 Hydroshift 4 speed transmission.
I have ridden on those Scenicruisers with the old 2-4/71's and when they were set up right the old 4501's would do just fine.
After the change over to the 8V/71's and 4 speed transmission in the early 1960's Greyhound had a round trip that went from San Francisco,CA to Miami,Florida with no change of equipment in this pool there were Western Greyhound Lines equipment and Southern Greyhound Lines equipment used.
The Western Greyhound Lines Scenicruisers were known to be just a little faster than the Southern Greyhound Lines Scenicruisers.
The Miami,Florida Greyhound maintenance shop had standing orders do not change the governor setting on the Western Greyhound Lines Scenicruisers.Note! this information was from a retired Greyhound Mechanic who pulled wrenches on the Scenicruisers in the Greyhound shop in Miami,Florida.
The Greyhound drivers liked those Western Greyhound Lines Scenicruisers when you had one you could stay on time all of the time.
jlv
Hydroshift was actually a two speed clutch, didn't affect the trans.
Gus you are 100% correct I had to find the PD4104 Maintenance Manual supplement X-5914 printed 4-1959 to refresh my memory about the Hydrashift.
The Hydrashift was quite a mechanical marvel in it's day.
Wonder how many PD4104's still have the Hydrashift instead of the 4 speed Spicer?
Thanks for the input.
jlv