Ok for those of you that had the luxury of owning both of them at some point and used it to pull a trailer alot witch one did you like better?
I pull a trailer with a car on it 99% of the time. I have to carry a large amount of extra parts for my car as well as tools. The room in the bus is great (its not converted yet, just gutted). But the more that I have to turn this thing around and the places I go I am wondering if I wouldnt be better off to build a toterhome instead.
I am looking for input and opinions from those who have more experience with toters and large tow rigs in general.
Eric
Eric ;although it is a 5Th wheel and is maneuverable the trailer length plus toter puts it out there. Your family size and the fact you don't carry heavy loads might make the bus better. Frame work and box building a toter home is time consuming.. Andy's was a pro conversion on previous owners truck. Ck it out sometime. Much more expensive than doing a bus conversion. Bob
toter homes are essentially tractor trailer prime movers with a not very good RV on the back, and meant to pull a serious trailer. Most can carry several cars. They really aren't the same thing as a bus at all. The RV portion might be 12 to 14 feet long, usually. On thing about them is they are custom, so they come in every style imaginable. My buddy has one, he carries four cars in his. Buses are really all about the RV, not what you can tow.
Brian
The tow factor is what is making us think about the toters. I am hoping to make a trip to texas this winter for a race and would like to hual two cars. The fact that we cant hual a car to drive and the race car also makes things a pain some times.
As for the RV part of it. When we do our bus conversion its going to be a very basic build for usability and not a high dollar conversion.
I just dont want to spend the money on my bus and then decide to go another route after I have already sunk more money in my bus then its worth.
Bob I would love to come down and check out your guys rigs.
Eric
If money was no object, I would get a highway tractor, long wheel base, and build a motorhome on it, then I could tow anything I want with it, up to 80000 lbs total. But I am an old busnut, I like buses, and I make do with my bus. I can only tow a smaller trailer, but I enjoy the bus.
JC
I have had both and for the loads you are talking about, go with the toter. I sold my toter because I did not need the towing power and my bus is a lot more comfortable. With that said if you spend enough you can get a toter with power and comfort.
I'm not really doing either. I'm taking my '85 Kenworth 90" Cabover Aerodyne and converting it into a 40ft motorhome. Granted the turning radius will be less and the ride not as good, but the servicability on any cabover truck is second to none (when you tilt the cab, the engine/transmission are right there). I have a 13ft garage with my bedroom over head (separate garage-not a toy hauler) and can pull a 10,000lb trailer if I want. With the Caterpillar 3406B 400hp and Allison HT740-not worried at all about power. So far working on it has been a real pleasure since everything is above floor line-unlike my transit bus where most everything is below the floor. Good Luck, TomC
Eric, if your main use is going to the races and your trailer can't deal with two cars (I can get two Formula Fords in my 20' trailer but I depend on others for local transportation) and you need a driver at the track, then a Toter Home is the answer. It's designed, mostly, for racing first and that includes staying in comfort at the track, and being an RV second. They are way expensive new, kind of depreciate to a certain level and stabilize, which means you will probably pay decent money for it when you buy it, but when you are done you can expect to get a lot of that back. My buddy just bought a 2002 Renegade with a 48 ft trailer for around $100K, it has around 150K miles on it. Two generators, air compressor, lift gate to the top tier of car deck. Pro unit. Watch out for the cheap units, they are usually cheap for a reason - run hard, put away wet, and wore out. Don't rely on the "Private RV' sign on the door - essentially all motor racing is considered commercial these days, even if you only get a trophy.
Brian
A simple ramp and you can park a geo tracker in the back where your bedroom is . back it out and make the bed. was in busconversion mag some 10 yrs ago done to a Eagle. ramp was folding alum. Bob
Do a search for Kingsley Coaches:
http://www.racingjunk.com/Class-8-Truck-Conversions/2085975/2003-Kingsley-Coach-Custom-RV-Toy-Hauler.html (http://www.racingjunk.com/Class-8-Truck-Conversions/2085975/2003-Kingsley-Coach-Custom-RV-Toy-Hauler.html)
TOM
here is an older, less expensive one. No trailer, though. http://www.race-cars.com/trasales/chevy-gmc/1298332903/1298332903ss.htm (http://www.race-cars.com/trasales/chevy-gmc/1298332903/1298332903ss.htm) Several others on the site. Plus several hundred race cars... :o
Brian
$$$$$$$ I know what you paid for your bus! stole it. You could rent a car when on road . several times/years and still not have what it would cost to have a toter home conversion and trailer built. What happens when you change hobbies/side business and family is still there for recreation. You would still have bus for fine unforgettable family adventures. The bus is forever like family. Food for thought. Do the math.
Quote from: oldmansax on September 19, 2011, 05:15:43 AM
Do a search for Kingsley Coaches:
http://www.racingjunk.com/Class-8-Truck-Conversions/2085975/2003-Kingsley-Coach-Custom-RV-Toy-Hauler.html (http://www.racingjunk.com/Class-8-Truck-Conversions/2085975/2003-Kingsley-Coach-Custom-RV-Toy-Hauler.html)
TOM
Last I heard, Kingsley Coach was defunct. Gone. Finito.
BCO
It sounds like you bought the wrong vehicle for the wrong reasons at this stage of your life. If you were looking for a tow vehicle, maybe the bus was not the answer. I think most people start with the bus for the RV aspect and then tow their toys or toads. I had a race car that I sold a couple of years ago. I was tired of all the hard work, and commitment that went into racing. My wife was a gem and was with me all the way. I sold everything and switched to the bus. Did I mention hard work and commitment? It is now pointed in a different direction. The nights and weekends are now focused on a hobby that my wife loves as much as me. I would look hard at what your future holds before making a decision. Could you put the bus away for a little farther up the road. If not then you will figure it out.
By the way, if you can find the time to race and convert a bus, you are a better man then me.
Good Luck,
Mike
Kingsley is out of business, but they built the units on a standard semi tractor chassis that should be easier to get parts for than most buses. GM and Eagle are both defunct as far as building coaches goes, but people still buy them and own them.
If I suddenly came into a bunch of money I don't know if I would buy another bus or buy a truck conversion instead. The issue with a truck conversion is the short length available for the living area. That engine out front takes up a lot of room, but it sure is easier to work on the engine or to get work done if necessary. There is a place in every town that can work on a standard semi tractor.
Why not just pick up an old bed bug trailer (furniture van) and twin screw tractor and convert the trailer like the nascar guys have. You should be able to have room for cars, workshop and living quarters. It shouldn't be too much more work than converting a bus. You will still have to pay attention to where you are going because they don't turn around on a dime and you are looking at 13 and 1/2 feet vertical clearance.
I started writing a reply about 2 hours ago and the computer ate it. I had two choices A) go for a walk B) smash computer. I'm back from my walk. I'll Post a couple of pics of my toter for comparison. For your purposes I think that the bus is better. There is plenty of room in the bays for tools and parts and a trailer can be had that will haul the race car and the driver. Maybe som creative trailer loading is in order. My toter is built on a 1989 Freightliner FLD120 chassis. It has a 12' box, OAL is 30' and WB about 290". The box is awfully small for family operations. It will sleep 6 in theory but that would be really tight. A bus lots more room and built on a chassis that intended to be a long wheel base. A bus is equipped with a front axle which has a tighter turning radius and hight weight ratings. Most road tractors were built as shorter units. I notice the front end weight and I can't turn a corner to save my life. I have driven an MC8 and '89 Prevost and they handle easier than the Freightliner. I got the toter because I do plan to pull a heavy load with a heavy toungue weight. Many of you know that I collect steam traction engines. I can't think of a way to haul one with a bus so the toter is the right answer. A couple of cars are not as big a deal though.
As far as room is concerned, I think if you measured the inside length of your 40ft bus from behind the driver's seat to the back wall, you might be surprised at how little floor space you really have.
For comparison-on my truck conversion, I've converted the truck sleeper into an office-so that's 32" of floor space used. The actual box is 32ft long. Subtract the 2.6" x 2 of the front and back wall is 378.8". Add the two together and I have 410.8" or 34.234ft of usable space in a 40ft'r. I only know of one bus that uses the entire 40ft of space, and that's Sean's. So using a cabover truck will eliminate the space lost with a hood. But-with a hood you could also have a 5ft cabover bunk (like a class C or pickup camper). So with a 40ft hooded truck, you'd have 30ft of box and 5ft of over cab bunk space-not too bad. Good Luck, TomC
Thanks for all of the input guys.
Andy nice rig. I would love to have something along those lines.
Eric
Quote from: TomC on September 19, 2011, 09:29:34 AM
As far as room is concerned, I think if you measured the inside length of your 40ft bus from behind the driver's seat to the back wall, you might be surprised at how little floor space you really have.
I measured the usable space in my bus when it was still mostly a shell. It came out to 37 feet. I can't recall if that includes the 18 inches in the rear that can only be a closet or not.
Would a day cab like a Columbia be 8 feet or less from rear of cab to front of the hood?
The Freightliner Columbia came in two cab lengths-120" for big block and small block engines, and the 112" for small block engines only. That dimension is from the front of the bumper to the back of the cab-or what we call in the industry-the BBC. I think the driver's compartment is more then 2.5ft long (after considering the thickness of the front and back wall). In general, a 40ft bus with lower radiator-like a Prevost will have about 36ft of floor space, and the MCI with rear radiators above, about 2ft less. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: demodriver on September 19, 2011, 08:11:17 PM
Andy nice rig. I would love to have something along those lines.
Eric
Thanks Eric, If you don't need the fifth wheel or gooseneck you can extend the living quarters all of the way to the rear giving much more room and maybe better balance. My truck is quite heavy on the front. Don't be to quick to abandon the bus. Traveling with is bus is as comfortable as it gets.
Quote from: boxcarOkie on September 19, 2011, 06:50:19 AM
Last I heard, Kingsley Coach was defunct. Gone. Finito.
BCO
What Belfert said.
TOM
I built a toter home on a class 7 IHC chassis. Lots of issues there. First, the ride was terrible. I made an air spring system for the front and bought a commercial system for the rear (both left the very stiff springs in the system). That helped, but I lost a couple of roof airs from the harsh ride (I am pretty sure - both were new and both had tubing failures).
The other big issue was lack of power. My engine was a DT 466 ( a very durable engine) but it was not even close to enough for big loads (even with a 5 + 2).
In the racing magazines I see a lot of toter homes for sale that have what I consider to be marginal engines for towing big trailers. At the very least, you want at least a 11 L engine.
The point has been made that the bus might not be a bad option to tow with. However, that should only be done with some sort of tow dolly to handle the large tongue load. I have posted my thoughts and some hardware options here:
http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/Trailer%20Towing.htm (http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/Trailer%20Towing.htm)
Jim
I have looked over your thoughts and read up alot of the towing with a bus.
I have also thought about making a light weight stacker trailer to hual two cars. I have even started looking at bay cars. The bay cars are pertty much out of the question tho due that most of them are for two people and my family is of 4.
Race trailer load outs are rarely over 40K lbs, half what a typical big rig might see. And they are usually driven by a hired driver or the prep shop owner/employee, you don't see a lot of owners pushing them. They are considered "tools" not toys and that changes the expectation. I like my bus, but if I was running a race team it wouldn't work. My buddy who runs a pro race team loves his toter and trailer, he carries four cars in it and has a place to stay at night. His wife, on the other hand, hates it...
Brian
Eric, what kind of cars do you need to carry? How many people need to be carried and need to sleep in the rig? I've been racing for 20 plus years, I've seen every possible tow rig - maybe I can offer some other suggestions.
Brian
Why not consider one of those trailers with a steerable front axle, or one of those dollys for keeping the tongue weight off the tow vehicle? My understanding is that GMs and MCIs cannot handle much tongue weight. I seem to recall Dallas destroyed a GM by towing too heavy. It is also my understanding that Eagles can tow heavier, but verify that with someone who knows Eagles.
A few years ago, I ordered a short nose Freightliner Columbia with 450hp Mercedes-Benz and a 10spd Ultra Shift to transport Morgue equipment (anytime you see a Morgue scene on TV, this company provides the actual equipment [only two companies make this equipment-one here in L.A. and the other on the east coast]). The truck has a full high top sleeper with a 26ft box behind. I spec'd the truck with the Hendrickson 12,000lb air ride front axle and a single 23,000lb air ride rear axle on 3.08 rears. I drove the truck empty up the 605 freeway to the end, then turned around. I accelerated up to 1800rpm in 10th gear and looked down at the speedometer-needless to say I needed to slow down from 92mph! That was the best riding truck-empty-that I ever drove. Probably as close to a bus ride as will ever get. Good Luck, TomC
My toter home was an 86 IHC S1900. The class 7 trucks never were designed to ride smoothly. This unit was rated at 34K and had very heavy springs.
Class 8 trucks have much better suspension technology including properly designed air springs and tapered leaf front springs.
Bottom line, if you do consider a toter home, be very careful what you choose. Like buses, there are some major differences.
Brian, Eagle buses have issues towing large trailers as well. The whole engine cradle is supported by steel tubing. That tubing can be compromised by rust (both interior and exterior).
Jim
I am not hauling any high dollar cars or a team/crew of people. Its just a car that most all of you would consider junk. The racing that I do allows contact and allows you to spin eachother out if someone is in your way so the car is pertty beat up. Its called autocross. The style of racing differs greatly from regions and from different countrys.
The only people that go with me is my family of 4 counting me and sometimes my dogs.
As much as I would love one of the 200k rigs its not going to happen. The older gmc that was posted is more of my style and price range but I would like a little bit bigger of a cabin area.
thanks for all the input. Eric
Yup, Brian is right.
The bus was a 1948 TDH3610 and I didn't know any better at the time. All my previous buses, (5 or 6 of them), had been Skoolies or really really old, (1930's model), parlor coaches.
Where the problem showed up was just in front of the drive axle. A small hump appeared in the floor while pulling an 18' flat bed trailer loaded with over 8,000 pounds net of personal junk, like tools, an 11 1/2' cab over camper, 8 55' lumber tarps, 6 25' machine tarps, 50 25' X 3/8" chains, 50 25' X 5/16" chains, 12 25' X 1/2" chains and probably 150 binders of various sizes and types, 4" straps, 4" ratchets, 2 generators, 4 5HP compressors and a bunch of stuff the wife thought was important.
We went from Fargo, ND to Joplin, Mo. to Myrtle Beach, SC, to Rockingham, NC, to Johnson City, Tn. with that bus before the problem showed up.
In all fairness, the highest speed the bus ever saw was 56 mph going down hill once in NC on I-40. Most of the time it moved along at about 40-45 mph and uphill at a solid 14 mph. We learned from a lot of people that we were NUMBER ONE... They showed us as they went by.
If I were to do it again, I would check the bus out a lot better before putting a trailer behind it, and reinforce from the rear bumper to the area about 10' in front of the drive axle with 1 3/4" or 2" thick wall square tube, also install gussets at the points in the ceiling and floor where stress points are going to occur.
Quote from: belfert on September 20, 2011, 07:32:15 AM
Why not consider one of those trailers with a steerable front axle, or one of those dollys for keeping the tongue weight off the tow vehicle? My understanding is that GMs and MCIs cannot handle much tongue weight. I seem to recall Dallas destroyed a GM by towing too heavy. It is also my understanding that Eagles can tow heavier, but verify that with someone who knows Eagles.
The lightest trailer that can carry two "normal" cars, say in the 3,000 lb and 16ft long size range, is going to weigh at least 5,000 lbs, with the lift and honestly probably more than that. My 20 ft heavy duty trailer only has a 10k gvwr and weighs 4K lbs empty, so add 1,000 lbs of lift and a third axle, and you're going to be up there. All in, figure 15K lbs gross or more, and probably close to 2K on the tongue. I have no idea if an Eagle can tow that. No way would I think of towing that with my bus.
The only other thing that really comes to mind is a truck camper towing a normal enclosed trailer, on a one ton truck. Set the truck camper up for cooking, eating, and sleeping for two, and put bunks in the trailer for the kids and the dog. Put a screen/RV type man door, screen windows, you can put an AC unit on top, it can be very livable. I had an 8 foot camper section in the front of a 20' trailer for years, and liked it a lot. With the car in, it was usable on the road, with the car out it was spacious and comfortable. If you need to get around at the track, just take the truck camper, or unload the camper (takes 15 minutes to load or unload a truck camper once you get the hang of it) and wheel about in the truck. I did that for several years as well, in fact I still have the truck and the truck camper, I like it too much to get rid of!
Brian
Ive did alot of planning on a 2 car stacker trailer. I believe it can be done alot lighter then what you mention. The trailer that I have thought of engineering would be a ramp style for the top car that would lift to a flat level. The front portion would just pivet and the rear would be lowered and raised by two hydro cyls. The trailer would all be open not enclosed either.
For axles I have two 7500 lb 8 lugs and I considered a third or even a steerable tag at the front to help with tongue wieght.
Alot more engineering and thinking needs done before I started to make it.
The lighter of the two race cars that I tow is about 2500 lbs. I would find a light weight car for the top of the stacker. Something like a little honda or similiar.
Eric, look at the dollar side a Eagle will handle a 1000 of tongue weight if everything is perfect which won't be on a 30 year bus
.I am not trying to scare you but you lose the drop box on the road that can cost you 8 grand the deferential can cost 5 grand a lost torque on the rear can cost 5 grand you lose a engine it is not like buying one for a truck they use such a weird set up compared to the trucks which are basically the same and can be bought at the right price.
Buses are not like trucks you don't see bus wrecking yard all over the country and no way can you buy bus parts at a truck stop this is a bus board the people love their uses but you have 2 so called hobbies going on at the same time it's like owning a bus and a boat at the same time as a bus owner and your needs I would go the toter route just look at the dollars then it will help you with a decision just my take on Bus vs Toter, sell the bus you are into right buy a truck if nothing else buy a travel trailer and set on the back.
I have seen some nice toters people have done that way one had a Volvo factory sleeper with the trailer tied in looked like a factory job and you could walk from the trailer to the front
good luck
One good thing about the Dina is it has a full C rail type frame from the rear to the drive axle. Everyone I've talked to says I shouldn't have any trouble towing a trailer. Last year I had a 5,000 lb trailer hitched on and I've not seen any ill effects yet. I've looked over the frame rails and there is no cracking that I can see.
I like truck conversions. The mechanical accessibility and available service options are somethings to be envied. I think there is a difference between a toterhome and a truck conversion though. It looks to me that Tom is working on a truck conversion. With his knowledge of both trucks and bus conversions, it seems that he is coming up with a very unique and impressive piece of equipment. If you start by saying you need a vehicle capable of pulling real weight, a truck would be the safe way to go, since you know it can do what you want and more. Why saddle yourself with a vehicle that may be able to do what you want a the upper limit of its safety factor? Even Brian's post about the Dina which states he has inspected his frame and has not found any evidence of cracking, is a bit scarey to me. If you know that you will be pulling weight, do you really want to be inspecting your frame after each trip to see if you made it? The only thing that concerns me about the truck is that several have mention poorer maneuverability than a bus. Is that really true?
Lin,
Years ago I had a '72 KW cabover, 456" total length and 365" WB full twin screw, with the Torsion bar suspension and Center point steering and was tight. It would also turn tighter than my PD4103. About as tight as a 28' U-Haul. I often wish I could find one again. Yeah, it was a bugger to back in to a spot, but it went where you put it. I thought about putting an air assist steering system on it, but I sold it for more than I paid for it before I could do anything.
Later, about 1999, I had an IH 9670 that turned like a locomotive on a long curve. I would rather have the IH, but I'd have to put a completely different front axle and steering gear under it.
My '82 Bluebird PT40 came from the factory with a 10,000# trailer hitch & some guys are pulling a 15,000# trailer with no problems.
Downside is they are about 15 times more complicated than a bus & about 10 times more complicated than they need to be.
Upside is they are built to school bus specs and have to be able to stand 3 rollovers without losing structural integrity. I have often wondered what the kids would look like after the bus rolled over three times.........
TOM
The Prevost comes with a 20,000# hitch from the factory back in the 80's they didn't want a hitch on their buses
good luck
I wanted to add to this, that I was at a race at Mont Tremblant on the weekend helping a buddy run a DB2 Sports 2000 car. I saw an open two car stacker made on an 18 ft open trailer. Winch lift for the high car, ramps pivot at the front. Looked very doable, just ungainly. They were carrying two 2,000 lb cars. I think your plan has a lot of merit, and you could start with a typical 20 ft open stock car trailer, maybe.
I was with my other buddy who has the Renegade Toterhome and 5 car trailer. Now that was nice...
Brian
Eric,
Go to Escapees website http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showforum=32 (http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showforum=32)
This site is as active in heavy duty truck toter's as is this bus conversions site.
I think you can get your question answered by reading the posts on there and even post your own question. There are some very knowledgeable people there.
I had a bus conversion (16 years) and now have a truck conversion (11 years). The truck can be serviced anywhere. The bus had a smoother ride, but the truck is easier to service and is more reliable, being newer.
Good luck in your decision.
Quote from: bevans6 on September 28, 2011, 02:06:40 PM
I wanted to add to this, that I was at a race at Mont Tremblant on the weekend helping a buddy run a DB2 Sports 2000 car. I saw an open two car stacker made on an 18 ft open trailer. Winch lift for the high car, ramps pivot at the front. Looked very doable, just ungainly. They were carrying two 2,000 lb cars. I think your plan has a lot of merit, and you could start with a typical 20 ft open stock car trailer, maybe.
I was with my other buddy who has the Renegade Toterhome and 5 car trailer. Now that was nice...
Brian
what no pictures lol
Lonnie
Quote from: bevans6 on September 28, 2011, 02:06:40 PM
I wanted to add to this, that I was at a race at Mont Tremblant on the weekend helping a buddy run a DB2 Sports 2000 car. I saw an open two car stacker made on an 18 ft open trailer. Winch lift for the high car, ramps pivot at the front. Looked very doable, just ungainly. They were carrying two 2,000 lb cars. I think your plan has a lot of merit, and you could start with a typical 20 ft open stock car trailer, maybe.
I was with my other buddy who has the Renegade Toterhome and 5 car trailer. Now that was nice...
Brian
You pertty much described what I have planned for a stacker trailer.
After alot of discussion wiht my wife and family we are most likely going to stay with the bus but probably try find a deal on one thats already converted and then sell ours. But if the right deal comes along on a toter we will probably take it.
I will check out the link posted, thanks.
Keep the input coming, I read it all and take it all into consideration.
Eric
I know where a nice Dina could be bought right! ;)
;D BK ;D
Quote from: usbusin on September 28, 2011, 03:11:36 PM
Eric,
Go to Escapees website http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showforum=32 (http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showforum=32)
I think at Escapees you'll find mostly 5th wheelers dreaming of the the right truck.
A number of years ago when my son was racing Quarter Midget Cars (go-cart size) we pulled a 14 ft .two axle trailer with my GM PD4106. But one of the guys we raced with pulled a similar sized trailer that had a front steerable axle. The trailer was built like a 5th wheel trailer and the front axle assembly functioned like the front axle on a pup trailer. The owner said the secret to stability was that the axle had lots of castor(or perhaps that the weight of the trailer was located behind the center line of the axle-it was a long time ago and my memory is a bit fuzzy) and that it towed like a dream. I realize this is smaller than what we are discussing but I'm sure the principles are the same.
Escapees is geared to the 5th wheel pullers and there is a Truck Conversions board also http://www.truckconversion.net/forums/ (http://www.truckconversion.net/forums/) But niether of them compare to the BCM board when it comes to real practical knowledge. The toters have a lot in common with the bus conversions because they are both custom built RVs on commercial chassis. Most of the topics discussed here apply to the toter truck as well. I want to thank the Busnuts for entertaining Eric's and my occasional toterhome questions.
Eric, have you thought about an inclined stacker. Both cars would be driven up on a ramped trailer about 30° or so. This would allow the second car to overlap the first by quite a bit. The ramp under the first car could be enclosed for parts and tool storage.
Ya I have thought about the style of trailer you are talking about but I was a bit concerned about the over all length of the rig. I have already got measured once with just a 14' trailer behind the bus.
Nothing is going to happen right away so I have plenty of time to gather info and make decisions.
Eric
Quote from: demodriver on September 29, 2011, 01:52:07 PM
Ya I have thought about the style of trailer you are talking about but I was a bit concerned about the over all length of the rig. I have already got measured once with just a 14' trailer behind the bus.
Nothing is going to happen right away so I have plenty of time to gather info and make decisions.
Eric
You are correct. My idea would be longer than a vertical stacker. Did they tell you what the length "limit" was?
He was a conservation officer. His reply when I asked was that he would let me know if it was to long, he didnt have a clue but would mail me a ticket if it was to long. He also told me that he was going to give me a verbal warning for my trialer plates being gone (lost) but I got a ticket in the mail a few days after I got home.
Eric