Dear Friends,
I am thinking about carrying at least two fire extinguishers: One on the cockpit, and one in the engine hatch. What is the proper type and capacity? If this chart is accurate, is dry powder the best for a bus?
http://paperclip.rsamd.ac.uk/index.php/Fire_Extinguishers (http://paperclip.rsamd.ac.uk/index.php/Fire_Extinguishers)
How protected/separated from engine heat would a fire extinguisher in the engine compartment need to be?
Thanks in advance!
Hello again. I prefere the BIG big CO2 bottles because they don't leave behind a HUGE mess which lots of times is worserer than a small fire. If memory serves (always suspect) CO2 works good on liquids and electrical fires and will also work on flammable solids IF YOU USE LOTS OF PRODUCT TO COOL/SMOTHER THE FIRE TOO.
I would mount a big one just inside the front door and and second one way back in the bedroom and the THIRD inside a baggage well just forward of the engine room soos you can access the bottle before you open up the engine hatch door or just stick the nozzle under the engine and let her rip. HB of CJ (old coot)
Dr. Steve,
You need to get in touch with Jim (RvSafetySystems). After doing quite a bit of research, we settled on his extinguisher. The name of it is Cold Fire. We purchased the largest one that he has, for up front (think tire fires, etc....that one could probably put that size a fire out). We also purchased a little two liter one for the back bedroom.
Those things work. We had a good sized grease fire in our grill (I know, wasn't cleaned soon enough). It was rolling some smoke, and very hot. I took some leftover Cold fire solution, that we had from charging the extinguishers, and put it in a little spray bottle, with water. One or two squirts, and the thing was out. I am not exaggerating either.
Those extinguishers are very easy to charge too. Simply add the solution mixed with the right amount of water, and charge the system with your air compressor. Use that extinguisher as many times as you want, and you are simply refilling it yourself. And it is not messy at all either.
God bless,
John
I bought 4 different sizes of the Cold Fire extinguishers from Jim, to fit into different spaces. I also bought about 5-6 of the little spray paint can type from him and have those in my other cars. :)
Although I have not been doing it, I think that keeping one in the bedroom is an excellent suggestion. Even if the fire is not in the bedroom, you have it on hand and not need to get all the way to the cockpit to get it.
Thanks for the kind words folks.
Professional fire fighters agree that dry powder extinguishers are not good fire fighting products. They have minimal fire fighting capability and some of the various powders used can be corrosive (especially around aluminum and electrical connections). They also create a terrible mess. Universally they are banned in most, if not all, airplane hangers.
While CO2 is an excellent fire fighting product, the extinguishers are bulky in order to get enough fire fighting product.
The most effective fire fighting product (exclusive of some very high priced new technology) are the AFFF and Surfactants. I sell the Cold Fire because of my long term experience with the product in NHRA Drag Racing. They have tremendous fires and I have seen first hand what the product will do. On my website I also talk about my own testing - I was even more impressed by my own testing.
I sell two families of extinguishers. The 1.5 and 2.5 gallon extinguishers come with a hose and aerating nozzle. They put out a stream of suppression material that is 8-10 feet. That allows you to fight a fire from a distance (tire/engine/etc.) The second family are the 1L/2L/3L/4L units that put out a very broad pattern. Those extinguishers are better suited to interior fires. We keep a 3L by the bed and it is our plan to use it to "spray our way out of an interior fire" (per Lin's comment).
I ALWAYS AM CAREFUL TO SAY THAT YOU SHOULD NOT TRY TO FIGHT AN INTERIOR FIRE IN AN RV. It is ok to squirt it if you can do so in a matter of seconds, and then quickly exit the vehicle. The smoke is very toxic inside the confined area of an RV
Jim
Jim,
What happens to the solution in freezing temps?
Don 4107
Quote from: Don4107 on September 07, 2011, 10:09:43 PM
Jim,
What happens to the solution in freezing temps?
Don 4107
Check out his web-site.
COLD FIRE® FREEZE-PROOF MIXTURE:
Cold Fire is a superior fire suppression material, but it is a water based solution. As such, it can freeze when exposed to low temperatures. However, by adding potassium acetate to the solution, the freezing point can be reduced to as low as -76 degrees F (50% solution by weight). A 35% solution will reduce the freezing point to -22 degrees F. Potassium acetate is generally sold as a dry powder.
Cold Fire is available in a premixed solution with a -50 degree protection. They use potassium acetate. It is available in 5 gallon containers but it is very expensive ($200).
The 50% solution means that the solution is equal parts of PA (dry powder) and water by weight. Using weight to determine solutions (as opposed to volume) can be a bit confusing since the PA adds to the volume of the water. The following will simplify making the solution:
50% solution (-76 degrees F): use 5.4 pounds of dry powder PA and add water to make one gallon
35% solution (-22 degrees F): use 3.5 pounds of dry powder PA and add water to make one gallon
Potassium acetate is classified as "non-hazardous" according to MSDS information. It is widely used as a spray for airport runways to prevent freezing. On the opposite side of the scale, it is sometimes used as a component for IVs in hospitals when patients need added potassium. PA can be found at some large chemical distributors. Unfortunately, they sell it in rather large bulk containers
Kidde markets a freeze proof additive for the 2.5 gallon extinguisher. The part number is AX506. It is a mixture of potassium acetate and potassium carbonate. Cold Fire has not tested this material with the Cold Fire concentrate/water mixture.
Holy Necroposting, Batman, but I need an update here! Is the consensus that Cold Fire is still a good way to go? And does my easily-befuddled 69-year old brain remember correctly that regulations/insurance forced Jim (RV Safetyman) to close down?
Get several BIG CO2 bottles. One inside the Bus Conversion just inside the front door. One in the back of the inside coach. The third just in front of the engine hatch. Be sure to have an engine hatch opening tool next to the big CO2 bottle if your coach requires such.
Be sure to mount the big 20 pound or bigger bottles extremely well. Extremely well. Very tight.
UPDATE: Do not laugh. Consider the big 2 liter carbonated water plastic soda bottles. Buy a dozen and practice using them as fire extinguishers. Open the cap. Bounce the plastic bottle against the ground. Cover the end with a strong thumb. Shake and squirt. Fun!
My little claim to fame was that years ago I drove a Fire Engine for an ISO Class One Fire Department. Long ago. Far away. Now an Old Coot! :)
Quote from: HB of CJ on January 15, 2018, 09:42:24 AMGet several BIG CO2 bottles. One inside the Bus Conversion just inside the front door. One in the back of the inside coach. The third just in front of the engine hatch. Be sure to have an engine hatch opening tool next to the big CO2 bottle if your coach requires such.
Be sure to mount the big 20 pound or bigger bottles extremely well. Extremely well. Very tight.
UPDATE: Do not laugh. Consider the big 2 liter carbonated water plastic soda bottles. Buy a dozen and practice using them as fire extinguishers. Open the cap. Bounce the plastic bottle against the ground. Cover the end with a strong thumb. Shake and squirt. Fun!
My little claim to fame was that years ago I drove a Fire Engine for an ISO Class One Fire Department. Long ago. Far away. Now an Old Coot! :)
Thanks. I appreciate the voice of experience.
Other than for very confined electrical fires, I'd only use a hand-held extinguisher if it was necessary to help evacuate the vehicle. Otherwise, that's what fire departments and insurance is for.
That said, I've got four 2-1/2 pound A-B-C units on order for our coach. One for just inside the front door, one for the bedroom in the back of the bus, one for the engine bay, and one for the electronics bay.
I've been driving/operating motor vehicles since 1978 and have only had one occasion to use an extinguisher - our '66 MGB had a fire under the dash from an electrical short. I was able to grab the extinguisher from the floor behind the seat and get the fire out before it did anything more than very localized damage. My guess is that if there is a fire in our bus it would most likely also be electrical system related.
You had a run in with Lucas - Lord of fire and darkness? ::)
I have a 20 lb CO2 mid-ship pass side; away from traffic and fire. I also have a 2.5 lb Freon hanging on a kitchen cabinet.
You may want to rethink an abc for your electronics bay. That poderkes a mess ND I corrosive. Better a CO2 or Halon if you can still get one.
BTW, for those who don't know, Kidde has a big recall on their fire extinguishers dating back to 1973. Ones with plastic handles that fail with age. Also some with push buttons. Also other brand name produced by them. We're talking 35 to 40 million here. Go to their or govt. web site for complete info. I'm sure many on here have one or more of that brand somewhere in coach or home.
Here is the link: https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2017/kidde-recalls-fire-extinguishers-with-plastic-handles-due-to-failure-to-discharge-and (https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2017/kidde-recalls-fire-extinguishers-with-plastic-handles-due-to-failure-to-discharge-and)
If you have never fought fire with a fire extinguisher then don't assume you know how to. I've always thought it was pretty simple but I've been in training sessions with people who didn't have a clue. Your weapon is limited; you either get it right or you don't. If you don't get it right then the fire continues as if you hadn't even been there. Its really no different than self defense - if you haven't practiced then you likely don't know what you are doing.
How many have had their current ones serviced at least every three years?
Quote from: chessie4905 on January 15, 2018, 01:20:40 PM
You may want to rethink an abc for your electronics bay.
I'm aware of the potential for having to replace the equipment. Still better than replacing the bus.
I know that in reality the only time the extinguisher in the bay will do any good is I happen to be there when it happens. It's more for something that's user-induced while I'm in there working than anything else. Halon extinguisher would have been my first choice but wasn't in the budget yet. Planning to upgrade to those soon.
In my woodworking business I just sold we had our extinguishers checked/tagged annually. They don't do any good if they don't work. For the 2-1/2 lb ABC extinguisher at about $50/ea, it's just about as cheap to replace them every two years.
Quote from: Lee Bradley on January 15, 2018, 11:42:44 AM
You had a run in with Lucas - Lord of fire and darkness? ::)
I have a 20 lb CO2 mid-ship pass side; away from traffic and fire. I also have a 2.5 lb Freon hanging on a kitchen cabinet.
Freon??? I seem to remember using a propane torch with an element in the flame that changed colour (yes with a U) when a draft tube was run across a leak in an Automotive A/C system (great safety back in the day). Never knew they were also used as extinguishers.
Yes Freon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromochlorodifluoromethane (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromochlorodifluoromethane)
http://amerex-fire.com/products/halon-1211-extinguishers/ (http://amerex-fire.com/products/halon-1211-extinguishers/)
I'd agree with checking your existing fire extinguishers. We carry one up front and also in the rear bedroom. We recently had a small fire in our stove and neither extinguisher worked. We were able to put the fire out but what really scared me was how quickly the smoke took over and there was very little air to actually be in there to put out the fire. Was a big wake up for us. Thankfully it all worked out ok, we'll be better prepared next time. Craig
I think it's halon extinguishers, not freon -- though they'e chemically close. I've had those dry chem extinguishers upside down and shaking the chemicals to put out a fire before, and that's with a gauge that read full charge.
On dry chemical, they say to lightly thump them in several places once a year with a rubber mallet to keep powder from packing inside unit.
Rubber mallet makes a great dry chemical extinguisher thumper.
Mounting the extinguisher on its side and being to roll it over periodically doesn't cake as hard as the traditional vertical mounting.
If there is a nice place for it to fit...
happy coaching!
buswarrior